Help with possible trailer purchase. Can I haul it? Wife wants to buy ASAP

[Derwood]

Something else I’ve learned after 30 years of camping is bigger is not always better. A smaller camper can get you in more campgrounds and more sites than a bigger travel trailer. I camp in some hard to reach NC mountain campgrounds that would be very difficult to access in a 32 ft camper. I always towed with a truck that was capable of towing 50% more than the camper weight and could handle the payload with ease. If you ever go camping and need to fill the camper’s fresh water tank you could be adding 300 lbs for that alone. If you camp long enough you’ll eventually boondock.

 

[Jas34]

Some real world #s for you as I just got back to my home in SC after towing our camper down from our cabin in central NY with a few stops in between. I stopped in at a cat scale near home here with this thread in mind, and wondering just how overloaded I might be. Having packed up the cabin for winter, we somehow managed to be travelling with a bit of stuff in the truck bed.

My 2017 ram 1500 truck specs. gvwr is 6900 lbs, gawr front and rear axles are 3900 lbs each, combined weight of occupants and cargo maximum is 1378 lbs. gcwr is 13800.

First lesson I learned when I weighed my truck alone about a year or so ago is that its weight is 5880 lbs. with me in it and not much else. 6900-5880=1020. That's the amount I can add to it without going over gvwr and is a far cry from 1378. I weigh about 162, not 300, if you're wondering.

My trailer is a Grand Design Imagine 22mle that is about 26' overall external dimensions. gvwr is 6995 and dry weight (uvw) is 5184. Advertised tongue weight is 608 lbs. When I've actually checked this on a scale, it's been between 800 and 960 depending on how I have it loaded. FWIW, 15% of gvwr is 1049, so worst case scenario is a lot closer to reality than advertised tongue weight.

I do carry 2x 47 lb Honda generators in the front pass thru storage area, and have 2x 6v golf cart batteries on the tongue and a pair of 20 lb propane tanks there too, and a real mattress inside, so I do carry a bit of extra tongue weight. I could move the generators to the back of the trailer, but I'm lazy and don't like lugging them back and forth each stop. This is reality when you get a trailer tweaked to how you want it.

I'm attaching the scale ticket from today. As you can see, I'm about 260 lbs over gvwr of the truck. gawr of both axles is well below the max, so I'm not really concerned that I'm over gvwr, and the total is less than gcwr. The weight distribution hitch is set up darn near perfect for my setup, and the truck tows this trailer just fine. You rarely notice it's even back there most of the time. No issues up and down the mountains. I just set the cruise to 65 and let the truck do its thing. No issues with sway or being pushed around by the wind from the semi's passing. The truck is not squatted at all in the rear. Also, the trailer weight is no where near its gvwr. Some number crunchers on the forums would say I'm way overloaded and need a 3/4 ton. I see no reason to move up to one. I'm usually right at my gvwr when I'm not carrying a bunch of extra stuff in the truck bed.

So my take home message from this long winded post is you probably don't have as much payload capacity as you think you do (weigh your truck to find out), don't believe or make plans based on manufacturers listed dry weight or tongue weight. 15% of gvwr is really a much better # to plan with. The truck being overloaded by gvwr is only part of the picture. How the weight is balanced is more important. You could be under gvwr and have a rear axle overloaded due to an improperly set up weight distribution hitch, and the trailer could tow like crap because of it.

 

[dhay13]

Some real world #s for you as I just got back to my home in SC after towing our camper down from our cabin in central NY with a few stops in between. I stopped in at a cat scale near home here with this thread in mind, and wondering just how overloaded I might be. Having packed up the cabin for winter, we somehow managed to be travelling with a bit of stuff in the truck bed.

My 2017 ram 1500 truck specs. gvwr is 6900 lbs, gawr front and rear axles are 3900 lbs each, combined weight of occupants and cargo maximum is 1378 lbs. gcwr is 13800.

First lesson I learned when I weighed my truck alone about a year or so ago is that its weight is 5880 lbs. with me in it and not much else. 6900-5880=1020. That's the amount I can add to it without going over gvwr and is a far cry from 1378. I weigh about 162, not 300, if you're wondering.

My trailer is a Grand Design Imagine 22mle that is about 26' overall external dimensions. gvwr is 6995 and dry weight (uvw) is 5184. Advertised tongue weight is 608 lbs. When I've actually checked this on a scale, it's been between 800 and 960 depending on how I have it loaded. FWIW, 15% of gvwr is 1049, so worst case scenario is a lot closer to reality than advertised tongue weight.

I do carry 2x 47 lb Honda generators in the front pass thru storage area, and have 2x 6v golf cart batteries on the tongue and a pair of 20 lb propane tanks there too, and a real mattress inside, so I do carry a bit of extra tongue weight. I could move the generators to the back of the trailer, but I'm lazy and don't like lugging them back and forth each stop. This is reality when you get a trailer tweaked to how you want it.

I'm attaching the scale ticket from today. As you can see, I'm about 260 lbs over gvwr of the truck. gawr of both axles is well below the max, so I'm not really concerned that I'm over gvwr. The weight distribution hitch is set up darn near perfect for my setup, and the truck tows this trailer just fine. You rarely notice it's even back there most of the time. No issues up and down the mountains. I just set the cruise to 65 and let the truck do its thing. No issues with sway or being pushed around by the wind from the semi's passing. The truck is not squatted at all in the rear. Also, the trailer weight is no where near its gvwr. Some number crunchers on the forums would say I'm way overloaded and need a 3/4 ton. I see no reason to move up to one. I'm usually right at my gvwr when I'm not carrying a bunch of extra stuff in the truck bed.

So my take home message from this long winded post is you probably don't have as much payload capacity as you think you do (weigh your truck to find out), don't believe or make plans based on manufacturers listed dry weight or tongue weight. 15% of gvwr is really a much better # to plan with. The truck being overloaded by gvwr is only part of the picture. How the weight is balanced is more important. You could be under gvwr and have a rear axle overloaded due to an improperly set up weight distribution hitch, and the trailer could tow like crap because of it.

So after factoring in the trailer weight that is on the tongue your actual trailer weight is about 6800lbs? Your slip says 5960lbs but you have to add the tongue weight to that to get your actual trailer weight

 

[Jas34]

So after factoring in the trailer weight that is on the tongue your actual trailer weight is about 6800lbs? Your slip says 5960lbs but you have to add the tongue weight to that to get your actual trailer weight

Not exactly, in this case at least. I would need a separate weight on the truck as we were travelling, wife and dog in it and all the stuff in the bed. I didn't do that this time.

To get the tongue weight I would also need a 3rd weight with truck and trailer and no spring bars tensioned on the weight distrubution hitch.

Trailer weight is weight of the truck and trailer minus the lone weight of the truck.

Tongue weight is weight of the truck when hooked up to the trailer without the weight distribution bars tensioned minus the separate weight of the truck alone.

But point taken...I may actually be closer than I thought to the gvwr of the trailer.

edit: also, the weight distribution hitch moves somewhere around 100-150 lbs of tongue weight back to the trailer axles from my experience, so you can't just add measured tongue weight to the weight of the trailer axles, when you're on the scale with the hitch tensioned, to get an accurate total trailer weight.

 

[runamuck]

Thx. Yeah be strong off the line. I went back to your earlier post and I saw the trailer you pull 560 tongue and 6000 pounds. The 28 foot you note is that just the trailer or does it include the tongue?

I’m looking similar weight now with 600 and 57xx so pretty close to you and 26’ without tongue. You use air bags and sways but no WDH correct?

I had the same year and model GMC as a company truck but never towed with it. But with only a 6 speed trans and lower HP it didn’t feel as strong as my Ram and much less so than the 23 F150 with a 5.0 which was my last company truck before retiring.

total overall length.

 

[runamuck]

total overall length.

yes, used Husky centerline WDH. the bags and helwig sway bar were just to take out some of the shimmy. the trailer tracked straight and I had no sway problem but gusty cross-winds did have an affect. cant do much about that when the trailer is a big box and weighs as much as the truck.

 

[Qcman]

Some real world #s for you as I just got back to my home in SC after towing our camper down from our cabin in central NY with a few stops in between. I stopped in at a cat scale near home here with this thread in mind, and wondering just how overloaded I might be. Having packed up the cabin for winter, we somehow managed to be travelling with a bit of stuff in the truck bed.

My 2017 ram 1500 truck specs. gvwr is 6900 lbs, gawr front and rear axles are 3900 lbs each, combined weight of occupants and cargo maximum is 1378 lbs. gcwr is 13800.

First lesson I learned when I weighed my truck alone about a year or so ago is that its weight is 5880 lbs. with me in it and not much else. 6900-5880=1020. That's the amount I can add to it without going over gvwr and is a far cry from 1378. I weigh about 162, not 300, if you're wondering.

My trailer is a Grand Design Imagine 22mle that is about 26' overall external dimensions. gvwr is 6995 and dry weight (uvw) is 5184. Advertised tongue weight is 608 lbs. When I've actually checked this on a scale, it's been between 800 and 960 depending on how I have it loaded. FWIW, 15% of gvwr is 1049, so worst case scenario is a lot closer to reality than advertised tongue weight.

I do carry 2x 47 lb Honda generators in the front pass thru storage area, and have 2x 6v golf cart batteries on the tongue and a pair of 20 lb propane tanks there too, and a real mattress inside, so I do carry a bit of extra tongue weight. I could move the generators to the back of the trailer, but I'm lazy and don't like lugging them back and forth each stop. This is reality when you get a trailer tweaked to how you want it.

I'm attaching the scale ticket from today. As you can see, I'm about 260 lbs over gvwr of the truck. gawr of both axles is well below the max, so I'm not really concerned that I'm over gvwr, and the total is less than gcwr. The weight distribution hitch is set up darn near perfect for my setup, and the truck tows this trailer just fine. You rarely notice it's even back there most of the time. No issues up and down the mountains. I just set the cruise to 65 and let the truck do its thing. No issues with sway or being pushed around by the wind from the semi's passing. The truck is not squatted at all in the rear. Also, the trailer weight is no where near its gvwr. Some number crunchers on the forums would say I'm way overloaded and need a 3/4 ton. I see no reason to move up to one. I'm usually right at my gvwr when I'm not carrying a bunch of extra stuff in the truck bed.

So my take home message from this long winded post is you probably don't have as much payload capacity as you think you do (weigh your truck to find out), don't believe or make plans based on manufacturers listed dry weight or tongue weight. 15% of gvwr is really a much better # to plan with. The truck being overloaded by gvwr is only part of the picture. How the weight is balanced is more important. You could be under gvwr and have a rear axle overloaded due to an improperly set up weight distribution hitch, and the trailer could tow like crap because of it.

Hi thank you for the real world info. I'm thinking about getting my truck weighed as a start to figure out actual payload. If so I guess having the gas tank full or at least close would be a good idea too? I looked up your trailer its nice! I see now how the trailers specs can change in actual use. As a newbie other than peoples opinions all I could really go on was math from provided weights. If anything I'm surprised there really hasn't been anyone post anything as comparable and detailed as you and I thank you for that. The post is not long winded, it is very specific and detailed which is great!

 

[nlambert182]

It's because everyone's weights are going to be different, so using someone else's real world numbers won't help your specific case. However, they are helpful to show just how quickly things add up.

I keep an excel sheet with my weights for the times that I have an opportunity to run across a CAT scale. Typically once a year at this point, since I know about what my limits are most of the time.

If you go scale the truck, scale it as if you were about to hook up to the camper. Full tank of gas, passenger(s), and anything you plan to have on or in the truck. That will at least give you a real number in terms of available payload.

 

[mtofell]

What he and others have been trying to explain, is that the dry weight of an RV is basically theoretical - it's what the manufacturer EXPECTS it to weigh when it comes off the line. Unfortunately that number is almost never correct, mostly because materials don't always weigh what you expect, if the people building it need to add some wood or extra staples or whatever during assembly. They may not take into account the added weight of the welds used during the manufacturing of the frame. EVERY little bit of extra weight adds up quickly.

I've also heard they sometimes omit basic things like batteries and propane tanks in order to make the weight more appealing. The RV business is a dirty one at times with very minimal oversight and regulation compared to automobiles or houses.

 

[09SilverRam]

I've also heard they sometimes omit basic things like batteries and propane tanks in order to make the weight more appealing. The RV business is a dirty one at times with very minimal oversight and regulation compared to automobiles or houses.

The seem to always omit batteries and propane tanks, sometimes they omit appliances because that model has multiple appliance package options.

 

[Qcman]

So after factoring in the trailer weight that is on the tongue your actual trailer weight is about 6800lbs? Your slip says 5960lbs but you have to add the tongue weight to that to get your actual trailer weight

What are you using to estimate the tongue weight of about 840 based on your total estimated trailer weight of 6800?

 

[Qcman]

Not exactly, in this case at least. I would need a separate weight on the truck as we were travelling, wife and dog in it and all the stuff in the bed. I didn't do that this time.

To get the tongue weight I would also need a 3rd weight with truck and trailer and no spring bars tensioned on the weight distrubution hitch.

Trailer weight is weight of the truck and trailer minus the lone weight of the truck.

Tongue weight is weight of the truck when hooked up to the trailer without the weight distribution bars tensioned minus the separate weight of the truck alone.

But point taken...I may actually be closer than I thought to the gvwr of the trailer.

edit: also, the weight distribution hitch moves somewhere around 100-150 lbs of tongue weight back to the trailer axles from my experience, so you can't just add measured tongue weight to the weight of the trailer axles, when you're on the scale with the hitch tensioned, to get an accurate total trailer weight.

Based on adding the hitch weight to around 6800 it would seem you had about 1600 lbs of stuff inside the trailer which I assume was due to closing down at year end?

 

[nlambert182]

I've also heard they sometimes omit basic things like batteries and propane tanks in order to make the weight more appealing. The RV business is a dirty one at times with very minimal oversight and regulation compared to automobiles or houses.

Well, they don't omit it to make the weight more appealing... propane tanks and batteries aren't installed at the factory when it's weighed. They're installed after.

 

[nlambert182]

The seem to always omit batteries and propane tanks, sometimes they omit appliances because that model has multiple appliance package options.

The sticker on the trailer itself accounts for the specific appliances that are in that unit. They always include some appliance weight, but it may be the lightest option for the rig. They've never been clear on that.

 

[12LLLimited]

Check trailer tires speed rating too ... most are only rated for 65 MPH ??? Interstate driving.

 

[nlambert182]

Check trailer tires speed rating too ... most are only rated for 65 MPH ??? Interstate driving.

Good point. But in reality, you shouldn't really be pulling a camper much faster than that anyhow. It's a lot of weight to try to stop or maneuver quickly.

Another rule of thumb for trailer tires.... when you buy one... if it doesn't have Goodyears (or at least a name brand tire) on it, replace them with haste. They're not called China bombs without reason. If they show any sign of checking or cracking, or the date code is >5 years old, replace them.

 

[CamperMike]

Check trailer tires speed rating too ... most are only rated for 65 MPH ??? Interstate driving.

Most recent ones are rated higher now. Mine are rated something like 81? I think most are l or m rated so 75 or 81.

 

[CamperMike]

Good point. But in reality, you shouldn't really be pulling a camper much faster than that anyhow. It's a lot of weight to try to stop or maneuver quickly.

Another rule of thumb for trailer tires.... when you buy one... if it doesn't have Goodyears (or at least a name brand tire) on it, replace them with haste. They're not called China bombs without reason. If they show any sign of checking or cracking, or the date code is >5 years old, replace them.

Carlisle radial tires are good also. They might have renamed then Carlstar now

 

[nlambert182]

I had Carlisles on my Alta and swapped them for the Goodyears. They only had 7k miles on them and the tread on two was beginning to separate. I've ran them in the past with no issue but seems that something changed. My spare is still the Carlisle.

A lot of better built tires do have a higher speed rating nowadays, but I wouldn't want to pull a TT much over 65 not so much because of the tires but because of the stability.

We went with some friends this summer and he thought it was a good idea to run 80 on the interstate with his mallard behind his 2021 1500, and he got into a situation of tail wagging the dog really quick. Even with sway control, he was over payload by about 500 lbs, and had a 35' trailer and his truck couldn't keep it straight at those speeds.

 

[Jas34]

Just because he can tow it doesn't mean he should . At least he kept it wheels down.