High Volume oil pump - advisable?

[Go-Mango]

I've had my 2005 5.7 since new and am now putting in a 3rd engine. The first one went with no real explanation given by the shop as to why, the second engine was from a wrecker and I'm now replacing that with a rebuilt from Winnipeg Engines. After having read lots regarding oiling issues on these 3rd gen engines I want to do what I can right from the start with my new engine. My son, apprenticing at my Dodge dealer today suggested that I might want to put in a high volume pump to help get the flow to the cam and lifters, hopefully preventing another failure. I've read through the posts here and don't know if it's an advisable move or not. Any definitive help out there?

 

[Travelin Ram]

I would start by asking your engine supplier what, if anything, they have done to already to mitigate the problem. Of course they may not give a damn depending on how long they warranty it for.

Another consideration is will they warranty it if there’s non standard parts added?

Sorry I don’t have a direct answer to your question, hopefully others can contribute that.

 

[Go-Mango]

Thanks, I asked Jay at Winnipeg Engines and he doesn’t do anything special with his builds. He suggested that believing that there is a known fault results from reading too much internet traffic. I dunno, I think just treating the engine right and limiting low pressure idling will help.

 

[jws123]

Never really heard of oiling issues with a 3r gen 5.7 the 4th gens sure but 3rd gens ive seen 300k miles all day long more reliable then a 4th gen. How often are you changeing your oil/what oil are you using its a bit odd your on your 3rd engine.

 

[Go-Mango]

I’m only really concerned about why the first engine failed because the second engine isn’t actually done, I’m just replacing it because I’ve never liked the way it sounds and a few repairable issues started appearing. Second was from a wrecker so who knows about its past? I use full synthetic 5 20 and change it every 10k as I believe that synthetic should give me that. Never had an issue with burning oil or low pressure. Excited for the new engine and my 3rd year apprentice son just told me they are starting on re and re today. Like I said, I’ll be vigilant about extended idling and low speed operation although tempting to warm it during winter in S. Alberta. Thanks for your reply!

 

[danielmid]

@Wild one advocates the Hellcat pump, your other option since you have an 05 and it's easy to tune is to have a tuner up the idle speed.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Edit, Im a retard !

 

[HemiLonestar]

Thanks, I asked Jay at Winnipeg Engines and he doesn’t do anything special with his builds. He suggested that believing that there is a known fault results from reading too much internet traffic. I dunno, I think just treating the engine right and limiting low pressure idling will help.

He is correct. Only real problems early 3rd gen engines were known for were valvesprings and seat dropping.

Never really heard of oiling issues with a 3r gen 5.7 the 4th gens sure but 3rd gens ive seen 300k miles all day long more reliable then a 4th gen. How often are you changeing your oil/what oil are you using its a bit odd your on your 3rd engine.

Not a lubrication issue, it's a quality control/sh!tty lifter problem.

I’m only really concerned about why the first engine failed because the second engine isn’t actually done, I’m just replacing it because I’ve never liked the way it sounds and a few repairable issues started appearing. Second was from a wrecker so who knows about its past? I use full synthetic 5 20 and change it every 10k as I believe that synthetic should give me that. Never had an issue with burning oil or low pressure. Excited for the new engine and my 3rd year apprentice son just told me they are starting on re and re today. Like I said, I’ll be vigilant about extended idling and low speed operation although tempting to warm it during winter in S. Alberta. Thanks for your reply!

You don't have MDS, switch to 5W30. That is what was called for 03-04 5.7's; the only reason they changed it on 2005 is because that was the year the LX came out with MDS 5.7 and they didn't wanna have two different oils specified for what was basically the same engine.

@Wild one advocates the Hellcat pump, your other option since you have an 05 and it's easy to tune is to have a tuner up the idle speed.

HC Pump with 50psi spring and bump idle to 750

HC pump is for VVT engines. 2005 5.7 is pre-eagle. Any upgrade here would be a 6.1 pump (hard to find) or aftermarket equivalent. No need to bump idle on a stock engine if everything is working properly.

 

[Go-Mango]

Thanks for all the info, really helpful. I think idle is supposed to be 750 so I'll leave that. Interesting about the oil viscosity but if the issue is really ****** cams and lifters and I've already got assembled heads then I don't know if I really need to or can do much about that other than solid maintenance. I'll have a look around for a 6.1 pump, that seems reasonable.

 

[Wild one]

I've had my 2005 5.7 since new and am now putting in a 3rd engine. The first one went with no real explanation given by the shop as to why, the second engine was from a wrecker and I'm now replacing that with a rebuilt from Winnipeg Engines. After having read lots regarding oiling issues on these 3rd gen engines I want to do what I can right from the start with my new engine. My son, apprenticing at my Dodge dealer today suggested that I might want to put in a high volume pump to help get the flow to the cam and lifters, hopefully preventing another failure. I've read through the posts here and don't know if it's an advisable move or not. Any definitive help out there?

Check with Melling,i think they might have the 6.1 pump or an equilavent pump.You can make the later Hellcat or high volumne Melling pump work on the early 5.7,but it takes some modding on the timing cover to fit it.Ignited Cycle has a video floating around of how he put the later pump on the earlier non vvt 5.7. What part of Alberta are you in,there's a few of us Albertans on here,i'm in Airdrie.

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[Go-Mango]

I’m in Claresholm. Be good to meet up with you one day.

 

[HemiLonestar]

Thanks for all the info, really helpful. I think idle is supposed to be 750 so I'll leave that. Interesting about the oil viscosity but if the issue is really ****** cams and lifters and I've already got assembled heads then I don't know if I really need to or can do much about that other than solid maintenance. I'll have a look around for a 6.1 pump, that seems reasonable.

Normal idle is 600 rpm. OEM 6.1 oil pumps are EXPENSIVE if you can find one: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mop-05037687ab, https://highhorseperformance.com/mo...-5-7l-2006-2010-6-1l-hemi-vehicles-5037687ab/

 

[Dusty]

Normal idle is 600 rpm. OEM 6.1 oil pumps are EXPENSIVE if you can find one: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mop-05037687ab, https://highhorseperformance.com/mo...-5-7l-2006-2010-6-1l-hemi-vehicles-5037687ab/

HemiLonestar, with the higher capacity oil pump, what would you expect the oil pressure to be at on a 5.7 with a 600 RPM idle?

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 82393 miles

 

[DILLIGAF]

No need to bump idle on a stock engine if everything is working properly.

Yes you do when FCA sets it way to low because of EPA nonsense

Its not because of bunch of suit dummies decided the OEM RPM was X ,that it means its the best for the engine. These are the same clown that are now saying to use 0-20 ....

 

[HemiLonestar]

HemiLonestar, with the higher capacity oil pump, what would you expect the oil pressure to be at on a 5.7 with a 600 RPM idle?

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 82393 miles

Well, every stock 5.7 I've had shows about 20 psi at hot idle. My stock 392 shows 35 psi at hot idle. The difference between a performance built engine and one that is not (sorry folks, 5.7 performs well but is not a "performance" engine). Besides the heavier engine loads, modern Mopar performance engines have piston squirters that the pump has to supply oil to in addition to everything else. Back in the early days (like 05-08) whenever a cam swap was done it was usually recommended to upgrade to the 6.1 pump for insurance but not necessary unless you were throwing a really wild cam in. If I were building up an eagle 5.7 today, especially if a stroker I'd use a 392 pump.

Yes you do when FCA sets it way to low because of EPA nonsense

Its not because of bunch of suit dummies decided the OEM RPM was X ,that it means its the best for the engine. These are the same clown that are now saying to use 0-20 ....

Has nothing to do with EPA nonsense lol.....600 rpm has been the idle of every stock electronic vehicle I've ever had and almost every stock or even mildly modified carb'd with the exception of the 400 in my Road Runner (had a nice healthy Mopar purple shaft).

 

[Dusty]

Well, every stock 5.7 I've had shows about 20 psi at hot idle. My stock 392 shows 35 psi at hot idle. The difference between a performance built engine and one that is not (sorry folks, 5.7 performs well but is not a "performance" engine). Besides the heavier engine loads, modern Mopar performance engines have piston squirters that the pump has to supply oil to in addition to everything else. Back in the early days (like 05-08) whenever a cam swap was done it was usually recommended to upgrade to the 6.1 pump for insurance but not necessary unless you were throwing a really wild cam in. If I were building up an eagle 5.7 today, especially if a stroker I'd use a 392 pump.

Has nothing to do with EPA nonsense lol.....600 rpm has been the idle of every stock electronic vehicle I've ever had and almost every stock or even mildly modified carb'd with the exception of the 400 in my Road Runner (had a nice healthy Mopar purple shaft).

Interesting. On all three of my 5.7 Rams hot idle in summertime hovers around 28-32 pounds based on the instrument cluster.

The reason why I asked is I know of 5.7 Ram 1500 that had a 6.1 pump installed and he's puzzled because at stock idle the oil pressure only climbed 2-3 PSI over the old one. At rev he tells me it's over sixty pounds, which is not that much more than I see on cold starts in the wintertime. I'm guessing the pressure relief spring in the new pump is dictating the max pressure?

Regards,
Dusty,
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 82393 miles

 

[ramffml]

My hot idle PSI is about 40. It went up from the low 30's to about 40 now when I switched to proper oil + filter.

 

[Go-Mango]

Interesting analysis and it looks like I might be installing the 6.1 pump on my '05 truck and looking at the 6.2 pump for my '12 Charger. Awesome information, thanks!

 

[Hemi395]

The idle on my truck was set at 510rpm. At a warm idle the oil pressure was around 30psi. I bumped the idle to 650rpm with HPtuners and my warm idle oil pressure is now 43-45psi. Pretty good increase for 140rpm difference. So yes the idle makes a difference in oil getting where it needs to