How do I know if my 5.7 has MDS

[rocket]

Actually, Rick and I are in agreement. On 4th gens, MDS and the ECO light are not tied together. The ECO light simply indicates when you are driving economically. On 5th gens the MDS and ECO light are tied together. Unless you disable it, the ECO light comes on when MDS is active.

You might want to do a little more research on your truck. It's not 4th gen styling with 5th gen parts underneath. It is a full fledged 4th gen Ram 1500. You don't have to take my word for it though. Two minutes of searching will confirm this. You're trying to project your assumptions as fact.

You don't need to have knowledge of how assembly lines work (I do in fact have knowledge of that. I worked for a manufacturing company for 34 years). The "new Ram 1500 (DT) trucks are built in the Sterling Heights assembly plant. The Ram 1500 Classic (DS) was built primarily in the Warren Assembly plant. Two different assembly lines for two different trucks.

Thank you for educating me

 

[jc56berg]

Your truck has MDS. Sometimes the indication (ECO) light gets disabled in the truck settings. Don't remember if its on the EVIC or the Uconnect system.

EDIT: Unless previous owner deleted your MDS of course.

Very good possibility.

 

[rocket]

Schooled once again!!

Google Search

 

[rocket]

Yes you are all right. Thanks for getting this right in my head. Where it counts most of all.

 

[Wild one]

Well now we are conflicted. You say eco and mds isn’t tied together, and Mikeru says it is. (5th gen only). So why does it not come on when I am in gear mode?? We can’t have it both ways. It either does or it doesn’t. I love the classic look and the 5 th gen underneath. If you really think classic builds are built with 2018 parts years later on an updated build line. Then you need a tutorial on how an assembly line actually works.

There are no 5th gen parts on your truck,as they were using up all the old left over 4th Gen parts to build the Classics.If you have 5 bolt wheels you have a 4th gen,the 5th gen's use 6 bolt wheels.

 

[04fxdwgi]

On the 4th gen ('16) one other proof the ECO light is not tied to the MDS. I set the PID for the MDS up in my tuner display to show status while driving along. It shows V8 when the MDS is deactivated and V4 when it is activated. It's switching has zero correlation with the ECO light.

And yes, the ECO light can be disabled in the infotainment screen under settings.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I heard about the cams effected aren’t mds criteria. We are sure mds cylinders are dedicated cylinders.

Yes. Only 4 cylinders have the hardware needed to lock or collapse the lifter based on oil pressure. The other 4 have no way to deactivate.

However failed cam lobes are not tied to either. It's a random distribution as to which fail, and even non-MDS motors have failures.

 

[rocket]

So blaming the mds for cam failure wouldn’t be the culprit, lack of oil pressure at idle would seem to be the real reason.

 

[RamDiver]

So blaming the mds for cam failure wouldn’t be the culprit, lack of oil pressure at idle would seem to be the real reason.

A tuning can be used to raise the idle rpm to mitigate the low pressure at idle.

Others have used a mechanical method of applying pressure to the accelerator pedal for the same purpose.

Many of us have changed the oil viscosity for OCIs to 5W30 and/or the designer lubricants to gain a bit of oil pressure.

I've gained about 5 PSI from idle through cruising with PUP 5W30 versus 5W20.

All these methods are band-aids to assist in combatting the broken oiling system in our Hemis.

Several great videos address how the lubrication system is flawed.

.

 

[Wild one]

So blaming the mds for cam failure wouldn’t be the culprit, lack of oil pressure at idle would seem to be the real reason.

Oil pressure has nothing to do with the cam lobe failure issue,as the cam lobes are strictly oiled by cranksplash. There is "No" pressurized oil fed to either the lifter roller or the cam lobe.
As stated by @RamDiver raising the idle rpm does more then putting in the Hellcat or Melling oil pumps.
Stay on top of your oil changes,try not to run much past 5,000 miles.
Use a good quality synthetic oil and filter.
And drive it like your 16 again and it's your Dads truck,
The Hemi is not an engine that likes to be drove by your Grandma,it prefers to be drove a bit on the aggressive side

 

[RamDiver]

Oil pressure has nothing to do with the cam lobe failure issue,as the cam lobes are strictly oiled by cranksplash.

I tweaked one line in my post above.

I changed; All these methods are band-aids to fix the broken oiling system in our Hemis.

To: All these methods are band-aids to assist in combatting the broken oiling system in our Hemis.

I agree with your statement that oil pressure is not the solution for cam/lifter failure.

.

 

[rocket]

The first line made more sense ( to me)
Assisting a proven design defect would make it worse. One would think, making the band aid reference seem sarcastic.

 

[Docwagon1776]

So blaming the mds for cam failure wouldn’t be the culprit, lack of oil pressure at idle would seem to be the real reason.

Lack of lubrication at idle is one theory that's popular. It kind of ignores the number of high mileage hemis in fleets with tons of idle time, though. If every idling hemi **** the bed early, you wouldn't see well over a decade of police purchases. You'd see them dropped and lawsuits filed like we did with things like the Durango milkshake motors.

There's also the idea of extended OCIs, but you see failures with well maintained motors as well. Maybe fewer, but that's a maybe.

Then there's the idea of just the occasional bad cam or bad lifters. This is kind of where I'm at. All it takes is a batch of needle bearings that aren't up to snuff and you're going to get a ground down lobe eventually.

Note the 3.6L Pentastar eats cams on occasion as well, likely for different reasons, so it's possible just Chrysler hated you and wanted to punish you with cam failure for buying their products.

 

[RamDiver]

Lack of lubrication at idle is one theory that's popular. It kind of ignores the number of high mileage hemis in fleets with tons of idle time, though. If every idling hemi **** the bed early, you wouldn't see well over a decade of police purchases. You'd see them dropped and lawsuits filed like we did with things like the Durango milkshake motors.

There's also the idea of extended OCIs, but you see failures with well maintained motors as well. Maybe fewer, but that's a maybe.

Then there's the idea of just the occasional bad cam or bad lifters. This is kind of where I'm at. All it takes is a batch of needle bearings that aren't up to snuff and you're going to get a ground down lobe eventually.

Note the 3.6L Pentastar eats cams on occasion as well, likely for different reasons, so it's possible just Chrysler hated you and wanted to punish you with cam failure for buying their products.

I'm with you right up to the last line about punishment.

While I understand that increased oil pressure at idle is not a solution, it is another easy tweak to reduce one of the potential variables, no matter how small the risk might be.

I also use a Club on the steering wheel.
Some might laugh because it doesn't take much to circumvent.
I use it with an aftermarket alarm and a modified ignition bypass.

Together, these items reduce the risk of theft, in my mind.
Plus, the insurance company I use is hundreds of dollars cheaper than I paid last year.
They actually provide a discount for using a Club.

.

 

[RamDiver]

The first line made more sense ( to me)
Assisting a proven design defect would make it worse. One would think, making the band aid reference seem sarcastic.

I tweaked it again. I can't keep everyone happy.

.

 

[rocket]

I have 40 years driving semi trucks I know what you mean. lol

 

[Wild one]

Lack of lubrication at idle is one theory that's popular. It kind of ignores the number of high mileage hemis in fleets with tons of idle time, though. If every idling hemi **** the bed early, you wouldn't see well over a decade of police purchases. You'd see them dropped and lawsuits filed like we did with things like the Durango milkshake motors.

There's also the idea of extended OCIs, but you see failures with well maintained motors as well. Maybe fewer, but that's a maybe.

Then there's the idea of just the occasional bad cam or bad lifters. This is kind of where I'm at. All it takes is a batch of needle bearings that aren't up to snuff and you're going to get a ground down lobe eventually.

Note the 3.6L Pentastar eats cams on occasion as well, likely for different reasons, so it's possible just Chrysler hated you and wanted to punish you with cam failure for buying their products.

I also subscribe to the theory the cam/lifter issues are due to substandard / aka cheaper parts,i also sort of think the valve springs are a bit on the weak side and allow the lifter to bounce at times. When Hoover redesigned the hemi for VVT he spec'd a billet cam,if the bean counters hadn't killed that idea due to cost,there'd be very few cam issues.
He knew the redesigned VVT Hemi would have cam failures,otherwise he wouldn't have spec'd a billet cam for them.
I don't really think the lifter bearings are much of a contributor to the failures,as much as the cam starts to gall,and then causes the lifter roller to skid instead of roll
You stick a good aftermarket non-mds billet cam and a set of the Mopar valve springs in one, you'd have had to have really pee'd the big guy upstairs off to have another cam/lifter failure

 

[mikeru]

I also subscribe to the theory the cam/lifter issues are due to substandard / aka cheaper parts,i also sort of think the valve springs are a bit on the weak side and allow the lifter to bounce at times. When Hoover redesigned the hemi for VVT he spec'd a billet cam,if the bean counters hadn't killed that idea due to cost,there'd be very few cam issues.
He knew the redesigned VVT Hemi would have cam failures,otherwise he wouldn't have spec'd a billet cam for them.
I don't really think the lifter bearings are much of a contributor to the failures,as much as the cam starts to gall,and then causes the lifter roller to skid instead of roll
You stick a good aftermarket non-mds billet cam and a set of the Mopar valve springs in one, you'd have had to have really pee'd the big guy upstairs off to have another cam/lifter failure

I subscribe to this theory too. MDS enabled, MDS disabled, idling, oil flow, OCI, lack of cam splash...etc, those may or may not contribute in some way, but I agree with you that the root cause is likely the cheaper cam shaft they spec'd. We've seen the pics some have posted showing that cam lobes have started flaking and the lifters are still in good condition. Unfortunately we'll probably never know for sure since Ram/Dodge/Stellantis aren't sharing any failure analysis data with the public. But that doesn't stop people from making a video with their own theories on why there are cam/lifter failures.

 

[rocket]

If these trucks weren’t so cool. They would have died with the AMC pacer.

 

[EdGs]

Lack of lubrication at idle is one theory that's popular. It kind of ignores the number of high mileage hemis in fleets with tons of idle time, though. If every idling hemi **** the bed early, you wouldn't see well over a decade of police purchases. You'd see them dropped and lawsuits filed like we did with things like the Durango milkshake motors.

100% agree

There's also the idea of extended OCIs, but you see failures with well maintained motors as well. Maybe fewer, but that's a maybe.

I changed my oil according to OCI on the EVIC, made it to from 28,684 miles to 201,192 miles, with ~8.5% idle time

Then there's the idea of just the occasional bad cam or bad lifters. This is kind of where I'm at. All it takes is a batch of needle bearings that aren't up to snuff and you're going to get a ground down lobe eventually.

Note the 3.6L Pentastar eats cams on occasion as well, likely for different reasons, so it's possible just Chrysler hated you and wanted to punish you with cam failure for buying their products.

I also subscribe to the theory the cam/lifter issues are due to substandard / aka cheaper parts,i also sort of think the valve springs are a bit on the weak side and allow the lifter to bounce at times. When Hoover redesigned the hemi for VVT he spec'd a billet cam,if the bean counters hadn't killed that idea due to cost,there'd be very few cam issues.
He knew the redesigned VVT Hemi would have cam failures,otherwise he wouldn't have spec'd a billet cam for them.

I'm really leaning toward this as well. I believe the penetration of the hardened surface of the cast iron cam is not very deep.

I don't really think the lifter bearings are much of a contributor to the failures,as much as the cam starts to gall,and then causes the lifter roller to skid instead of roll

^^This^^ My failed lifter needles looked decent. It was the pin they roll on that failed.

However, in addition to my failed #5 intake lifter and cam lobe, I had BOTH #8 cam lobes just worn through the skin of the hardened surface. The corresponding lifters still looked and felt good.

You stick a good aftermarket non-mds billet cam and a set of the Mopar valve springs in one, you'd have had to have really pee'd the big guy upstairs off to have another cam/lifter failure

I would've bought a billet MDS cam if I could've. I bet it would be much more durable than the cast OE one.

I still have all my removed parts if there's something anyone would like to see.