ICON 1.5" spring users question - did you change panhard/track bar?

[78Staff]

So, after installing the Icon 1.5" springs, the axle is now off center by a small amount, so the rear passenger tire sticks out a bit more than the drivers rear. Not a huge amount, but enough to notice.

Trying to decide if it's worth the $150 to grab an adjustable panhard bar like the Sponn from Moe's. 1.5" is a pretty minor lift amount, and should cause not issues with the axle being shifted slightly, but it's one of those thing I notice everytime I walk around the truck lol.

So for Icon users - did you upgrade the bar also or just leave it stock and not worry about it...

 

[ram1500rsm]

I did but not because axel shift (i had like a 1/4" difference so nothing really noticeable) but because i realized the stocker flexed like a bambo stick
I went for the Bwoody one, I have some pics in my built thread
2014 RAM 1500 Express Crew Cab

 

[78Staff]

BWoody is one of the ones I was looking at originally - thanks I will give it some more thought. Moe's carried the Sponn which is why I looked at it.

 

[ram1500rsm]

BWoody is one of the ones I was looking at originally - thanks I will give it some more thought. Moe's carried the Sponn which is why I looked at it.

Actually sorry, the videos i was referring to were for the Spohn rear control arms not their TB. i've edited my post and removed the TB comment.

 

[Nick@GotExhaust]

Most customers dont BUT the ones who did say it made a pretty big difference in handling. We highly recommend the one from CORE 4x4, its one of the best ones out!

Let me know if you would like pricing and info
https://www.core4x4.com/product/dodge-ram-2014-present-rear-panhard-track-bar-tier-three/

 

[FF1899]

https://carlisuspension.com/product...0/dodge-2014-1500-rear-trackbar-drop-bracket/

This bracket is what you want but when I went to order mine it was about a month back order. I ended up going with a zone rear lift so I have the bracket new in the box if you want or need one you can have it 60 shipped

 

[MidwestExpress]

Does the carli track bar drop bracket & an adjustable track bar solve the same problem with lifting the rear end? For strictly geometry purposes, would it be beneficial to do both? I really don't know enough about this, so I'm genuinely asking and not being a smart ass.

Core 4x4 track bar: "Our adjustable Panhard bar allows for centering the rear end after lowering or lifting the ride height and provides for serious handling performance."

Carli drop bracket: "Lifting the rear of your truck puts the factory rear track bar at an extreme angle that introduces a peculiar phenomenon of “body yaw” posed by the front and rear track bars swinging in opposite directions.....This vital component will relocate the track bar within factory spec and eliminate the exaggerated body shift."

I'm not going to pretend to be smarter than I really am on the internet, so are they talking about the same thing in these descriptions?

 

[ram1500rsm]

The adjustable TB will help you recenter the axel after lift, the drop TB bracket will help you lower your roll center if it was raised from stock. A combination of the two will be beneficial depending on your lift. If you only need to recenter your axel measure the distance between any point in the frame you can use to measure (same on both sides) and the edge of the tire for example. If you have more gap showing on the driver rear you want to shorten the bar, if it's the opposite you want to make it larger.
I thought about running the Carli bracket but i don't think i have the needed lift it'll be required to run the bracket and keep the TB level, i only have 1" lift in the back and judging by the Carli install pictures i'll need at least 2-3" lift so the bar will sit flat after the relocation , i may end up overcorrecting the angle of the bar towards the axel without that height.

This is how my TB looks now with 1" lift.
2019-04-23_01-22-37 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

and look at the gap between the relocated hole (bottom) and original hole, It'll be too much in my case. The TB will be flat for me if the relocated hole was placed where the bottom silver bolt is currently pictured here.

 

[MidwestExpress]

Thank you for the response and information. Your TB angle doesn't look bad at all.

I thought about running the Carli bracket but i don't think i have the needed lift it'll be required to run the bracket and keep the TB level, i only have 1" lift in the back and judging by the Carli install pictures i'll need at least 2-3" lift so the bar will flat after the relocation , i may ended up overcorrecting the angle of the bar towards the axel without that height.

I think this is what @joshuaeb09 mentioned he noticed after installing the Carli bracket in another thread. It is interesting that Carli includes this in their kit, but their rear springs only provide like a 1/2" lift.

 

[ram1500rsm]

I wish Carli Engineers were here explaining the details behind some of their designs. The thing is not even expensive so it makes the mod attractive in that regards personally i went only after the flex on the factory TB, Go down there grab it by the middle try to move it, i understand the TB is supposed to flex some but that should be under severe load. try it and you'll know what i'm talking about.

 

[joshuaeb09]

Thank you for the response and information. Your TB angle doesn't look bad at all.



I think this is what @joshuaeb09 mentioned he noticed after installing the Carli bracket in another thread. It is interesting that Carli includes this in their kit, but their rear springs only provide like a 1/2" lift.

Yup. I'm running the 1" billstein springs along with a .75" spacer on top, but I also have a full tool box, headache rack, and a heavy ranch hand bumper weighing me down. Even with the Carli bracket the Core 4x4 panhard bar had to be adjusted just a little bit from stock length to get it perfectly centered while it was up on the alignment rack. The combo of the two did seem to help the rear feel more stable and I already had Core 4x4 control arms with a hellwig back there.

 

[MidwestExpress]

I wish Carli Engineers were here explaining the details behind some of their designs. The thing is not even expensive so it makes the mod attractive in that regards personally i went only after the flex on the factory TB, Go down there grab it by the middle try to move it, i understand the TB is supposed to flex some but that should be under severe load. try it and you'll know what i'm talking about.

So, I had emailed Carli awhile ago asking some questions about their tuned Fox 2.0 shock package. FWIW, here's part of the response from them:

"Our compressed and extended shock lengths are proprietary to the company, but I can tell you that the Commuter System pulls 10" of wheel travel in the front, and 13" of wheel travel in the rear.

In order to run our complete shock package front and rear, you will need to purchase the full Commuter System. The reason for this is the rear shocks provide more wheel travel, and the factory rear coils and other suspension components cannot support these numbers. This means you will need a longer Replacement Coil, Extended Rear Sway Bar End Links, and a Rear Track Bar Drop to make sure the rear axle stays centered and supports those higher travel numbers."

After re-reading that email from them just now, it seems the main objective of their TB bracket is to center the axle. So, an adjustable TB can accomplish the same thing. I'm guessing they can keep consumer costs down for their full kit by making the TB bracket instead of an adjustable TB?

 

[joshuaeb09]

So, I had emailed Carli awhile ago asking some questions about their tuned Fox 2.0 shock package. FWIW, here's part of the response from them:

"Our compressed and extended shock lengths are proprietary to the company, but I can tell you that the Commuter System pulls 10" of wheel travel in the front, and 13" of wheel travel in the rear.

In order to run our complete shock package front and rear, you will need to purchase the full Commuter System. The reason for this is the rear shocks provide more wheel travel, and the factory rear coils and other suspension components cannot support these numbers. This means you will need a longer Replacement Coil, Extended Rear Sway Bar End Links, and a Rear Track Bar Drop to make sure the rear axle stays centered and supports those higher travel numbers."

After re-reading that email from them just now, it seems the main objective of their TB bracket is to center the axle. So, an adjustable TB can accomplish the same thing. I'm guessing they can keep consumer costs down for their full kit by making the TB bracket instead of an adjustable TB?

With longer travel it's not just the length of the track bar, but also controlling the arc in which it moves. If you start from a more level position the axle won't shift as much at full travel, but that total shift will really be determined by how much up/down travel you have and where the travel starts from. I probably didn't need the bracket, but it was cheap and my rear end liked to dance around so it was just extra insurance.

 

[MidwestExpress]

With longer travel it's not just the length of the track bar, but also controlling the arc in which it moves. If you start from a more level position the axle won't shift as much at full travel, but that total shift will really be determined by how much up/down travel you have and where the travel starts from. I probably didn't need the bracket, but it was cheap and my rear end liked to dance around so it was just extra insurance.

Thanks, I think I understand it better. The TB bracket helps when travel is extended (thats the way I'm going to simplify it for myself).

 

[78Staff]

So I've done a bit more research - these are my impressions from info gathered.

1-2" is the max amount of drop/lift you would want to to without making some sort of adjustment. At this amount of drop/lift, the change is minor but still noticeable to the eye. Larger amounts would definitely require some sort of change, whether relocation bracket, bar, or combination of both.

The most common options for our trucks appear to be:

1. The Sponn bar - I view this as an essentially an oem replacement style option while adding adjustability. While possibly a bit stronger than OEM, it doesn't appear to like to be pushed hard. Fine for lowering or a truck that never leaves the pavement. - $150

2. The BWoody - Strong, Thicker bar with stronger adjustable end. This would be considered an upgrade for sure, and fine for most folks/lifts. - $210, but on sale for $190. For $40 more seems like a no-brainer over the Sponn IMO. Better for folks that are towing, hauling heavy loads, venturing off road, etc.

3. The CORE - This is the overbuilt bar for those who push their trucks hard. The "6 Million Dollar Bar" lol. Wow I am old. Anyway, This is the king of bars it appear, without stepping up to some sort of custom one-off setup. Ranges between $300-400 depending on options. If you find yourself at the parts counter more often than the gas station, this is your bar!

For me, I think the BWoody will be the ticket. Going to order on up and along with the Hellwig already installed I think it will tighten up my rear end along with getting the axle back under center.

EDIT - Sorry there's also the Freedom OffRoad version, but after talking to the manf I crossed it off the list. It's essentially a cheaper ($110 on Amazon I think) China-made copy of the CORE setup, with rubber bushings, no grease fittings, etc. Fine for a pavement queen I suppose, but I'm going with a USA made product.

 

[ram1500rsm]

So, I had emailed Carli awhile ago asking some questions about their tuned Fox 2.0 shock package. FWIW, here's part of the response from them:

"Our compressed and extended shock lengths are proprietary to the company, but I can tell you that the Commuter System pulls 10" of wheel travel in the front, and 13" of wheel travel in the rear.

In order to run our complete shock package front and rear, you will need to purchase the full Commuter System. The reason for this is the rear shocks provide more wheel travel, and the factory rear coils and other suspension components cannot support these numbers. This means you will need a longer Replacement Coil, Extended Rear Sway Bar End Links, and a Rear Track Bar Drop to make sure the rear axle stays centered and supports those higher travel numbers."

After re-reading that email from them just now, it seems the main objective of their TB bracket is to center the axle. So, an adjustable TB can accomplish the same thing. I'm guessing they can keep consumer costs down for their full kit by making the TB bracket instead of an adjustable TB?

Yes a drop bracket can be used to center the axel as well. Measure your axel shift to see if you need either option. Are you lifted some in the back?

 

[joshuaeb09]

For me, I think the BWoody will be the ticket. Going to order on up and along with the Hellwig already installed I think it will tighten up my rear end along with getting the axle back under center.

BWoody makes good stuff. I have a full set of their rear control arms on my Challenger along with their full endlink set. I was a little ticked off they revised the arms to include delrin as an option after I installed mine, but that's more of a poor timing thing on my part. If they build the trackbar anything like my tubular arms are it should have no problem standing up to some serious abuse on and off road.

 

[MidwestExpress]

Yes a drop bracket can be used to center the axel as well. Measure your axel shift to see if you need either option. Are you lifted some in the back?

I'm not lifted in the rear currently, just over planning for when/if I do.

I've spent some time reading other forums (Jeeps, etc.), and of course opinions can be all over the place. I do see & can understand some reasons to have both an adjustable bar and a relocation bracket, with the info in this thread and other places. As you mentioned, the Carli bracket drops down the mounting point like 2-3", which may be too much for a 1" or so lift. In order to keep the TB parallel with the axle, and if only lifted an inch or so, one option/idea may be just to drill a new TB mounting hole on the existing stock frame TB bracket (bypassing any additional bracket needed). It seems to me that there is enough room on the stock bracket to put a new mounting hole just under the original. The Carli bracket requires drilling new holes in the stock frame bracket anyway.

 

[revitupmoto33]

Ive been running the icon springs for almost 3 years now and I haven't had any issues with running the oem trackbar. Would I like to upgrade it, absolutely. Is it absolutely necessary, no.

 

[WiSH2oo0]

How much rear lift did the Icon rear coil springs add? The Supetlift 2" rear coil springs gave me 3.5" of rear lift and the BDS 3" rear coil springs added 4" of rear lift. I do have a RCSB though.