Max 5th Wheel GVWR for my new 2500

[CodyWyBound]

Hi everyone. I'm new here and I am a proud owner of a new Ram 2500 Laramie Diesel. I bought it with plans to purchase a 5th wheel in another year or two and to become a full time RV'er after retirement. I have been researching 5th wheels that I would be interested in purchasing and because I want to be able to go to most federal and state parks, I am looking at a 5th wheel between 35 to 39 feet in length.

My trucks GVWR is 10000 lbs and according to the Ram truck site, it's max payload is 2070 lbs and its max towing is 15,980 lbs. Does the latter value mean that I need to stay under 16000 GVWR for the 5th wheel? I seem to get conflicting information when I try to google what my truck should be able to tow and I've seen answers of over 19,000 lbs with the 6.7L Cummins Diesel.

I would greatly appreciate your input on what GVWR for a 5th wheel I can reasonably tow so that I don't waste my time looking at 5th wheels that my truck won't be able to tow.

I am new to having a truck and I selected the 2500 based on what I felt would be a sufficiently powerful truck to pull a nice 5th wheel. I might have done this backwards and bought the truck before deciding on the 5th wheel . But I am fine in limiting what I can haul if I understand what my truck can pull.

Thanks and I look forward to spending more time on this forum and becoming a more knowledgeable owner.

Dan

 

[Firebird]

Welcome, sounds like a great truck! Post some pics when you can.

 

[HDGoose]

Well, you Laramie has 400 pounds less payload then my 2013 2500 Tradesman diesel. I have a 33 ft toy hauler that maxes out at 12k. With that trailer at 11,500 I was over payload, but under axle weights. Total rig weighed 21k.

You truck is rated slightly less, so you'll need to get a real weight on the truck, with full fuel, to see what the actual weights are. Then plan on the 5th wheel pin weight to be 22% of the GVWR of the trailer.

The max trailer weight is hard to achieve with a 5th wheel. That trailer weight is for a gooseneck. And not a 5th wheel trailer converted to a gooseneck.

I'd say your max 5th wheel trailer weight is 12k. A 16k trailer is 2500 SRW territory. Above that is 3500 dually territory.

 

[CodyWyBound]

So, the max towing weight according to Ram of 15,980 lbs doesn't mean that it can pull a 15000 GVWR 5th wheel? Or is that too close the max towing weight for comfort? As far as the suggestion of a max trailer weight of 12k mean a max GVWR of 12k or empty weight of 12k?

Sorry for so many questions but is the suggestion made is correct, then that means that my truck wouldn't be able to pull many of the 35 ft 5th wheels. I don't want a travel trailer and I was led to believe that my truck would be able to pull quite a few 5th wheels. One 5th wheel I am looking at is the Grand Design Solitude 310GK that has a UVW of 12k and GVWR of 15k. This is too heavy for my truck?

 

[CodyWyBound]

This is what I found from the 2020 Ram Towing Guide:

[If you’re looking to maximize on towing, you’ll want to opt for the available 6.7L Cummins® turbo diesel I6 engine. The Ram 2500 turbo diesel unlocks an impressive 19,680-lb. maximum towing capacity when equipped with the available Fifth-Wheel/Gooseneck Prep Package. This same configuration offers a 3,160-lb. payload capacity.

ENGINE
6.7L Cummins® Turbo Diesel I6

HORSEPOWER
370 horsepower

TORQUE
850 lb.-ft. of torque

MAX PAYLOAD
3,160 lbs.

MAX TOWING
19,680 lbs.]

Assuming this is correct, wouldn't I be able to consider a 5th wheel with a GVWR in the 15k - 18k range?

I am not sure if the max towing value is direct correlation to GVWR for a 5th wheel so that is why I am confused.

Again, I appreciate your input in making this clear to me.

 

[HDGoose]

Look at the he decals on the driver's door for your vehicle payload and axle ratings. The sale brochures all state "appropriately equipped".

On 2500 RAM trucks payload vary by trim level. Same for 3500s. So depending on how your truck is loaded will determine capacity. I do not concerned myself with payload as much as I do front and rear GAWR.

 

[HDGoose]

You will need to weigh your truck to see how much real capacity you have remaining on the axles. Hoping you already have E rated tires.

 

[CodyWyBound]

Look at the he decals on the driver's door for your vehicle payload and axle ratings. The sale brochures all state "appropriately equipped".

On 2500 RAM trucks payload vary by trim level. Same for 3500s. So depending on how your truck is loaded will determine capacity. I do not concerned myself with payload as much as I do front and rear GAWR.

Front GAWR is 6k and Rear GAWR is 6040 lbs. Tires are E rated.

It's frustrating that the sticker inside the driver side door only gives me those values and the GVWR (10k). No GCWR or anything else to be able to use some of the 5th wheel calculators that are available to determine what my truck can pull. The one chart I saw only seems to rate the Tradesmen and Big Horn trim levels, not the Laramie but the Laramie values closely resemble those of the Tradesmen 6.4 crew cab 4x4 6.7l cummins and the max towing is in the 15k-16k range.

 

[392DevilDog]

Here is what that 15980 means. It is a equipment trailer with 10% tongue weight.

10000GVWR. Your payload capacity 2070.

Base weight ia GVWR minus payload

Your base weight is 7930...a Laramie diesel is a heavy pig.

So your GCWR is 27000 found in the charts.

A 15000lb 5th wheel will have about 20% pin weight which is 3000lbs. But even at 15 % it would be 2250...which would put you icer GVWR before you even get in the truck or add the hitch.

There is a bit if extra axle capacity. But you can see you will be limited by pin weight.

Hope that makes sense. What I tell everyone you can tow a 15000lb trailer...but as soon as you go camper...you can not. 5th wheel even less.

Someone will be along to say about the extra capacity...as I already did...but you can see you have to figure pin weight and go from there.

 

[392DevilDog]

Axle ratings give you 12040 GVWR...i strongly suggest you do not max these.

With a 7930 base weight you can figure your base axle weights. A cummins is 62/38.

So 4917 front and 3013 rear. So your absolute max weight over the rear. would be 3000lbs. Then figure the hitch and then cargo in the truck...and you can see how it is dropping.

 

[392DevilDog]

15000 equipment trailer at 10% 1500 lbs tongue weight.

15000 lb camper bumper pull....about 13% 1950 tongue weight...the 2020 is rated to 2000lb tongue weight...see how close that is.

15000 lb 5th wheel. Usually 20 to 22 % pin weight
So 3300lbs...get the picture I am sure.

Start with looking at 5th wheels by pin weight.

I know...someone is about to say they overload their Cummins all the time. Doesn't make it right though.

You have to make that decision...but these are some sound guidelines

 

[392DevilDog]

I do assume your new RAM IS a 2019 or 2020...guess I should have asked.

And it is a 4x4 crew cab shortbed?

As usual the salesman lied. Maybe unknowingly...but that doesnt make it right.

Because of the weight of the Cummins it really pays to get them in a 3500.

Cause as you can see even taking the truck to gross axle ratings...they are really limited to pin weight.

Hope you can find a camper that will fit your needs.

 

[HDGoose]

Now that you know your axle ratings, go weigh your truck as it will be loaded when pulling the 5th wheel. And see what is remaining. My toyhauler trailer loaded to 11.5k put my 2013 RAM 2500 Tradesman diesel CC SB about 90% of axle ratings.

A 16K and above camper is 3500 and maybe dually ratings.

There are 33ft 5th wheel trailers that you can pull just fine any where.

 

[dhay13]

Payload on a 2500 diesel sucks. I doubt you will find a 5th wheel that will keep you under your payload limits. Sure the truck will do it and likely do it with ease but it won't be legal. We towed my sons bumper pull camper and scaled it and the truck with 1100lbs tongue weight was about 9100lbs. He has a 2018 2500 6.4 with 2973lbs payload. Had that been a diesel he would have probably been over his GVWR.

Not take a look at axle ratings. His is 6500lb rear and 5500lb front. Maxing those out puts it at 11,000lbs, 1000 over GVWR so not possible to get both at limits. I didn't see your rear axle rating but if it is 6500 too then at 3000lb pin weight you will probably be over. My sons rear axle weight was 5040lbs with 1100lb tongue weight. You will likely be in the 6500-7000lb rear axle weight with a 3000lb pin weight.

Like was said you need to scale your truck at the CAT scale to get a base but I think you are going to have a hard time staying under capacities with a 5th wheel. Lesson here, don't ever listen to salesman.

Here is my sons weigh slip from towing his bumper pull (2018 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK). Dry weight was 6600lbs but we figured with the 1100lb tongue weight the truck and camper were both at about 8100lbs each. Add the 1100lb tongue weight and the truck is 9120lbs. A diesel in that same truck would have put him very close to max GVWR

 

[CodyWyBound]

Appreciate everyone's input. I will start looking at smaller 5th wheels and possibly a travel trailer. I'm disappointed that my truck can handle even a 35 foot 5th wheel with a GVWR of 15000 lbs. I wasn't planning to purchase an even smaller 5th wheel because we plan to live in it full-time. Obviously, we want to have a level of comfort that I am not sure we can get in an even smaller unit.

I do have a question. A travel trailer is not going to use a 5th wheel hitch, so if I decided to purchase a travel trailer, what GVWR for a travel trailer can I reasonable pull? Maybe a lighter travel trailer that is still in the 35 foot range would work.

Again, the stats I have on my truck are:
2020 Ram 2500 Laramie Crew Cab 4x4 6.4
GVWR: 10000
GAWR Front: 6000
GAWR Rear: 6040

Looking forward to further responses related to a travel trailer. Thanks!

 

[CodyWyBound]

BTW, I have looked at travel trailers and one I have my eye on is the NuCamp Avia. Looks a lot like the european caravans that are very stylish and great design for using space. Here are it's specs. Can I pull this baby?

AVIA Specifications
Dry Weight
5185 lbs (Approx)
Tongue Weight
700 lbs (Approx)
Interior Length
21' 2"
Overall Length
28'

 

[392DevilDog]

BTW, I have looked at travel trailers and one I have my eye on is the NuCamp Avia. Looks a lot like the european caravans that are very stylish and great design for using space. Here are it's specs. Can I pull this baby?

AVIA Specifications
Dry Weight
5185 lbs (Approx)
Tongue Weight
700 lbs (Approx)
Interior Length
21' 2"
Overall Length
28'

You will absolutely enjoy towing that. Would be like towing air.

In your stats also add the 27000 GCWR

 

[CodyWyBound]

Well, that is good to know as we really like that travel trailer and we hope more rv builders in the US will look at european-built travel trailers (or caravans as they call them there) as templates for new builds. The europeans strongly understand how to use small spaces and have some amazing travel trailers. Wish I could buy one and have it shipped here

Also, thanks for the GCWR information.

 

[HDGoose]

Payload on a 2500 diesel sucks. I doubt you will find a 5th wheel that will keep you under your payload limits. Sure the truck will do it and likely do it with ease but it won't be legal. We towed my sons bumper pull camper and scaled it and the truck with 1100lbs tongue weight was about 9100lbs. He has a 2018 2500 6.4 with 2973lbs payload. Had that been a diesel he would have probably been over his GVWR.

Not take a look at axle ratings. His is 6500lb rear and 5500lb front. Maxing those out puts it at 11,000lbs, 1000 over GVWR so not possible to get both at limits. I didn't see your rear axle rating but if it is 6500 too then at 3000lb pin weight you will probably be over. My sons rear axle weight was 5040lbs with 1100lb tongue weight. You will likely be in the 6500-7000lb rear axle weight with a 3000lb pin weight.

Like was said you need to scale your truck at the CAT scale to get a base but I think you are going to have a hard time staying under capacities with a 5th wheel. Lesson here, don't ever listen to salesman.

Here is my sons weigh slip from towing his bumper pull (2018 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK). Dry weight was 6600lbs but we figured with the 1100lb tongue weight the truck and camper were both at about 8100lbs each. Add the 1100lb tongue weight and the truck is 9120lbs. A diesel in that same truck would have put him very close to max GVWR

The difference between a 2500 Tradesman nicely equipped compared to a Laramie or Limited can be 400-600 pounds difference. The difference between the 3500s that I looked at on the lot back in November were 800-1200.

The payload on my 2013 RAM 2500 diesel was over 2491. With my 33 ft toyhauler loaded with 30 gallons of fuel, two full dress Harleys, two large coolers stocked, truck with full fuel and three people was under 22k. I was under axle weights, but not by much. So it can be done. I liked the diesel when loaded going up the steep hills in WV and TN.

So a 5th wheel can be done with the 2500, properly equipped.

 

[14hemiexpress]

If your going to live full time in it another consideration might be a smaller destination trailer they have bigger refrigerators and some have washer hook ups and stuff like the fifth wheels. My tt is 35ft bumper to ball and weighs 8200 fully loaded. My hitch weight is 1050lbs weighed at the scale and I drive it 1 handed down the road it's easy.