Max 5th Wheel GVWR for my new 2500

[Firebird]

It is disappointing when folks see what the payload is in their SRW Cummins trucks are. My contractor has a 2019 Cummins Meg Cab Laramie 4x4 with Ram boxes, and his payload is right at 1290 lbs. The payload in my gasser is 3037 lbs, but it's just a Bighorn. That being said, he drags a 40' 5th wheel all the time. Is he over payload? Big time! Should he do it? I wouldn't, but it's his family and his call. Cummins has plenty of pulling power, but his chassis is way maxxed out.

 

[CodyWyBound]

Now that you know your axle ratings, go weigh your truck as it will be loaded when pulling the 5th wheel. And see what is remaining. My toyhauler trailer loaded to 11.5k put my 2013 RAM 2500 Tradesman diesel CC SB about 90% of axle ratings.

A 16K and above camper is 3500 and maybe dually ratings.

There are 33ft 5th wheel trailers that you can pull just fine any where.

I am now looking at available 5th wheels 33 ft and under. Thank you for your advice!

 

[dhay13]

The difference between a 2500 Tradesman nicely equipped compared to a Laramie or Limited can be 400-600 pounds difference. The difference between the 3500s that I looked at on the lot back in November were 800-1200.

The payload on my 2013 RAM 2500 diesel was over 2491. With my 33 ft toyhauler loaded with 30 gallons of fuel, two full dress Harleys, two large coolers stocked, truck with full fuel and three people was under 22k. I was under axle weights, but not by much. So it can be done. I liked the diesel when loaded going up the steep hills in WV and TN.

So a 5th wheel can be done with the 2500, properly equipped.

Are you under payload with that setup? Axle weights are one thing but payload must be factored in also. My axle weights add up to 11,000 but then I'm 1000 over payload.

 

[14hemiexpress]

I am now looking at available 5th wheels 33 ft and under. Thank you for your advice!

Look at " 1/2 ton" towable ones

 

[HDGoose]

Are you under payload with that setup? Axle weights are one thing but payload must be factored in also. My axle weights add up to 11,000 but then I'm 1000 over payload.

Not under payload. But under GAWR front and rear, and under tire load, and I tagged my truck for 11K instead of 10. I was 100% legal by DOT rules. DOT doesn't care about "payload" according the the NCDOT officer I talked to. What they will write a huge ticket for is being overweight by the tags. My learning about weights on the 2500/3500 trucks is why I now have a 3500 dually.

 

[CodyWyBound]

So I decided to enter my VIN at Ram trucks and this is what it says:

Max Payload: 2170 lbs
Max Towing: 16, 980 LBS

So wouldn't this mean with the 5th wheel/gooseneck towing prep that my truck could pull a 15k GVWR 5th wheel? If not, that is the value of max towing mean? I know, there have been a lot of responses suggesting I look at travel trailers but I'd appreciate an understanding of how someone uses the max towing value to determine what the truck can tow? What value does it provide when someone is deciding to purchase a truck to pull an rv?

Thanks for your input as always.

 

[392DevilDog]

So I decided to enter my VIN at Ram trucks and this is what it says:

Max Payload: 2170 lbs
Max Towing: 16, 980 LBS

So wouldn't this mean with the 5th wheel/gooseneck towing prep that my truck could pull a 15k GVWR 5th wheel? If not, that is the value of max towing mean? I know, there have been a lot of responses suggesting I look at travel trailers but I'd appreciate an understanding of how someone uses the max towing value to determine what the truck can tow? What value does it provide when someone is deciding to purchase a truck to pull an rv?

Thanks for your input as always.

As I stated above the 16980 is for an equipment style trailer with 10% tongue weight.

10000 GVWR minus 2170 payload is 7830 base weight

27000 GCWR minus 7830 base weight is 19170 for cargo trailer and hitch.

19170 minus 16980 is 2190. The truck has to haul.

2190 minus the 10% tongue weight of 1698 is 492.

The 492 for passenger/ cargo and hitch.

I weigh 300lbs myself...do you see why that number will not work for a 5th wheel?

Does that make it clear?

A 16980 5th wheel will have at the least 15% but usually 22% pin weight

So...2547 to 3735. Does that make sense. It is from 400 to 1400 lbs over your payload

The towing is for a flatbed trailer hauling a tractor or car with 10% TW.

Even a bumper pull camper will have 13 to 15 % TW.

Let me know if this makes sense.

 

[CodyWyBound]

I finally found my yellow sticker . It just shows tire size, 65 PSI for front and rear and says combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 2096 lbs. Based on that what is the heaviest pin weight if towing a 5th wheel? Is this even a valid question to ask? I am new to all of this . So, thanks for your patience!

 

[392DevilDog]

I finally found my yellow sticker . It just shows tire size, 65 PSI for front and rear and says combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 2096 lbs. Based on that what is the heaviest pin weight if towing a 5th wheel? Is this even a valid question to ask? I am new to all of this . So, thanks for your patience!

You need to know what you are taking i. The truck. Say you got two people at 400 lbs. The hitch will weigh about 150 ish pounds...so you are looking at 550 lbs with just that.

2096 minus 550 is 1546 left for pin weight.

1546 is 22 % of 7000 and 15% of 10300...so look at a camper around 8k. If you only have the 2 people in the truck.

Sorry...but that is what it is.

 

[CodyWyBound]

As I stated above the 16980 is for an equipment style trailer with 10% tongue weight.

10000 GVWR minus 2170 payload is 7830 base weight

27000 GCWR minus 7830 base weight is 19170 for cargo trailer and hitch.

19170 minus 16980 is 2190. The truck has to haul.

2190 minus the 10% tongue weight of 1698 is 492.

The 492 for passenger/ cargo and hitch.

I weigh 300lbs myself...do you see why that number will not work for a 5th wheel?

Does that make it clear?

A 16980 5th wheel will have at the least 15% but usually 22% pin weight

So...2547 to 3735. Does that make sense. It is from 400 to 1400 lbs over your payload

The towing is for a flatbed trailer hauling a tractor or car with 10% TW.

Even a bumper pull camper will have 13 to 15 % TW.

Let me know if this makes sense.

Ok, this makes sense to me. A 15k 5th wheel would have a pin weight of between 2250 and 3300 lbs which is 250 to 1300 over payload and that doesn't yet include the extra weight in the truck (me, my wife, a dog and whatever else). Do I have the correct understanding now?

 

[392DevilDog]

Yep. That is correct.

 

[MADDOG]

Time for some trailer math.

First, go here and download the 2020 Ram Towing Chart. It has some critical info you will need.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/chryslerme..._HD_TowingChart931nt9qmsd8aerespefd6bsda4.pdf

Find your truck on the chart

Then you need to know the following:

1. Truck "base" weight aka dry weight or curb weight. That is found on the linked document.
2. Truck Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). That is also found on the linked document.
3. Cargo weight. How much weight will you be putting in the truck such as passengers, gear, accessories, hitch, tool boxes, etc...
4. Trailer GVWR. This is how the trailer weighs fully loaded. Most folks use the GVWR number even though they may not fully load it to the max rating. You can cheat this down a little, and the trailer pin weight, by weighing your trailer after you have loaded it.
5. Trailer pin weight (fifth wheels) or tongue weight (TT). Add that to cargo weight. Pin weight of a fifth wheel is somewhere between 15% to 20% of the trailer's weight.
5. Truck Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR). This is the maximum amount your truck and trailer combined, loaded, can weigh.

Now with all those numbers, add the base weight, cargo weight, trailer pin weight. Compare that number to the truck's GVWR.

Next, add your truck's weight to the weight of the trailer. This is the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight. Compare the sum of that calculation with the GCVWR shown on the linked document. If you have calculated all your weights correctly and your truck + trailer GCVW are under the GCVWR then you are good to go.

Remember, your axles have weight ratings so it is always good practice to go to a truck stop and get the loaded weight at each axle including your trailer axles.

 

[392DevilDog]

Just remember the chart shows a tradesman trim. His Laramie will be much different.

That is why I showed how to take GVWR minus posted payload to get base weight. And then with the diesel 62/38 for diesel and 60/40 for gas to get your axle weights.

I did all that math for him already.

And in my last long post I brought the numbers clean down from GCWR to the amount allowed in the truck. Now he just needs to go backwards for his own set up max tow...which will be much less than the charts.

 

[392DevilDog]

@CodyWyBound not sure if I already said this...but download the CAT scale app. Load yourself wife and dog into the truck and head to your nearest one.

Did you get a 5th wheel hitch yet? If not google the one you like and get a weight. Probabky gonna be between 150 and 200lbs.

Now you know how much room you have for pin weight...which isnt going to be much.

Or do the travel trailer route with a hitch weight of about 100lbs.

With a gas truck you would have about a 1000 more lbs to work with...but that doesnt really matter...just info for someone else.

People tow 5th wheels with 1500 trucks...so you can get one your truck will tow. You just have to mind the pin weight and stay under axle weights on the truck.

 

[14hemiexpress]

You need to know what you are taking i. The truck. Say you got two people at 400 lbs. The hitch will weigh about 150 ish pounds...so you are looking at 550 lbs with just that.

2096 minus 550 is 1546 left for pin weight.

1546 is 22 % of 7000 and 15% of 10300...so look at a camper around 8k. If you only have the 2 people in the truck.

Sorry...but that is what it is.

Good info here. If you work backwards on a travel trailer your looking at a pretty easy 12k trailer at 12% your 1440 and 12k on a travel trailer is alot of trailer most will be under 10k. Check out this durango fifth wheel it has 16% hitch weight laundry hook ups theater seating seem like a nice husband and wife layout for full time.

https://www.kz-rv.com/products/durango-half-ton-fifth-wheels/D259RLD.html

Even fully loaded 9k hitch weight would be 1440 if it stayed that same 16%

 

[dhay13]

A very comparable bumper pull setup would be what my son has that I posted above. His dry weight is about 6600lbs. He tipped the scales at 16,180lbs with me, him, full tank of fuel, tool box in bed, and a bunch of work equipment. We calculated his TT total weight to be about 8100lbs and if his truck was a Cummins he would have been right at max payload, probably slightly over.

Just remember the 7060 shown here for the trailer doesn't include the 1100lbs that was transferred to the truck via tongue weight. His TT is a 2018 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK

 

[Firebird]

This is a very informative thread, great info!

 

[CodyWyBound]

The following link may be useful for determining whether your truck can tow a particular rv. Based on this, I would still have 245 lbs available payload towing the heaviest Airstream, the 2021 Classic 33.

https://brandonreid.github.io/truck-towing-capacity/index.html

 

[andymax]

Have you given any thought to upgrading the truck? I know it's new, but with the truck market the way it is (SUPER STRONG) I bet you there's a good chance you could make this work. Seems its only days or weeks old at this point. Make an appointment with the GM of the dealer where you bought it. Explain that you love the truck but due to some faulty explanations by their salesman, you find yourself with not enough truck and what would it take to trade up to the 3500SRW. They MAY try to help you out...or maybe another dealer might. It's worth a shot...and gives you a lot more headroom on trailer choices.

Best of luck!

 

[Mark Albrecht]

Put your VIN in and Mopar will tell you the rating of your truck

https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html