Max towing tongue weight

[Montessa]

I have a 2020 regular cab Ram 6.4/4.10. I pull a 34' living quarter race car trailer. I scaled the entire rig loaded with a golf cart in the box. It weighted in at 21k. I am concerned about the tongue weight. Ram rates the bumper hitch at 2000lbs. I run a 15000lb Blue Ox weight distributing hitch. I finally got around to checking the tongue weight. I did not have the car on board or any water. The tongue weight was 2700lbs ! Am I asking too much for a bumper pull? I have had this setup for 4 years and did not think anything about it. I had a 14' 2500 previously setup the same as the 20' and didn't have any issues. Ram rates the 20' to pull 17k. I am not concerned about that but, the tongue weight! Comments, observations? Thanks

 

[farmallboy]

Personally I would have a fifth or goose setup for that kind of weight. If not I would have a duly. Sounds like you might be pushing the limits. What does your door jam say ?


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[392DevilDog]

Here is a prime example of what all the load it and go folks do.

I thought 1800 was max tongue weight. You say 2000, we will go with that.

Tongue weight will also include anything behind the rear axle to the tailgate.

So you are 700lbs over. Your 2014 did it with you not knowing it was over.

How many more bumps, slow downs and aggressive pulls do you think he had left.

I would say you are on borrowed time with the setup. May pull well everytime you go out but that stress will finally crack.

I bet you are pretty close to axle weight as well.

Hope you can come up with something. We helped a guy get his 1500 setup...we will try to help here too....but you are way over TW.

Can you move the car on the traiker to change TW?

 

[392DevilDog]

This was for your 2014.

Max tongue weight is 1800. I didn't notice a chamge for 2020...but you said 2000.

Anything over 1800 should be a 5th wheel or gooseneck.

Very, very few trailers have a 10% TW. The maximum allowed bumper pull is 18000.

Alot of people seem to miss that the max tow HeavyDuty is a gooseneck setup. Even the 5th wheel max tow comes out less than the gooseneck.

Hopefully you can do something with the location of weight and get that TW down below 2 grand (closer to 1800)

 

[Firetruck41]

The FCA J2807 chart I looked at, mentioned a 5th wheel hitch is required over 23,000lb, and a gooseneck is required for over 30,000lb. So it seems your combination should work, but I would look at a upgrading to a receiver hitch that is rated to your tongue weight.

You should still be under the GAWR, and within payload and GVWR and towing capacity. Just need that correctly rated hitch.

That's just going by the specs I have found, no direct experience towing heavy, so YMMV.

 

[392DevilDog]

17000 lbs and over must be a gooseneck or 5th wheel.

 

[Firetruck41]

To be safe, go with what 392DevilDog posted.

Curt has a hitch listed with a 2700lb tongue weight capacity for the 2020 Ram 2500:
https://www.curtmfg.com/part/15809

Here is what I had found and was referencing in my previous post:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/chryslerme..._HD_TowingChart931nt9qmsd8aerespefd6bsda4.pdf

 

[Montessa]

I got the info from the 2020 ram brochure. Remember my truck is a regular cab with 4.10's. I bought this trailer from a guy who was pulling it with a 2500 6.0 Chevy, hitched with a 10k rated Reese hitch! I did buy a trailer toad due to my concerns. I used it once and found that it took too much weight of the truck. I felt like the tail was wagging the dog. However, I did not try it with the golf cart in the pickup bed. Maybe that would help.

 

[Elkman]

My truck is rated for a trailer up to 17,200 lbs but has a factory hitch rated at 13,000 lbs and a tongue load of up to 1500 lbs. which is normal for pickups. Over 13,000 lbs and I would need to use a 5th wheel hitch and this provides 4 times as much frame area and strength to manage the load as the standard hitch at the end of the truck's frame.

At 21K tow load you need the diesel engine and the 3.73 gears or preferably the 4.10 gears. Either DRW or a SRW with 19.5 wheels and tires are also needed to support the hitch load at the rear axle.

 

[Montessa]

I have pulled this load for since 2016 with a 6.4. The engine does just fine where I run in the Northeast. The area is fairly flat. I do not see that a diesel is warranted for my application. I put around 5k a year on the truck and my home track is 25 miles away. From everything that I a reading the 2020 with the 6.4 is even more capable with the 8 speed. I don't expect much if any improvement in fuel mileage over the 6 speed. I averaged 7.5 to 8 pulling this weight. I am the only guy who pulls this kind of weight with a bumper pull? I don't think so. Any similar setups out there? Give us a shout!

 

[392DevilDog]

Let's start from the top again.

I answered based on the question of tongue weight.

I see now that you weighed it without the car or water.

I am a but confused as I go down the post it seems things change.

2700 is too much tongue weight.

2700 without the car means when you load the car it will go down.

21k....that is the GCWR of your total package...not the actual weight of the trailer?

Only towing this 25 miles on a known route makes it much better...i thought you were towing this to many tracks.

One unknow pot hole or dip in the road could be disastrous.

We had a guy on another site towing a monstrous travel trailer. Towed it for years. Finally hit the right bump at the right time and blew out his airbag. Found out he was way over rear axle weight. He has since upgraded to a 3500 and a smaller trailer.

 

[Montessa]

Yes, the total overall weight, truck, loaded trailer and golf cart in the pickup bed totaled 21k. The trailer is a 34' triple axle v nose with living quarters. I generally pull locally but, on occasion I travel about 150 miles to the next closest track. I have pulled to Norwalk Ohio for a couple events. That trip is over 600 miles, one way. A few years ago I hit a hole in Albany NY so hard one of my beds broke loose and hammered the fender on my car! It was a not so pleasant surprise when I got home. The trailer itself is rated for 15k . Because the boarder is shut down and I race in Canada I have not gotten my car out. otherwise I would have gotten the loaded weight. The car sits all the way to the rear of the trailer so it will be interesting to see how much that extra 3500lbs effects the tongue weight. The car located over and to the rear of the three axles might lighten the tongue weight. I'll load it up at some point and find out.

 

[Travelin Ram]

Toy / car haulers of that type are typically nose heavy with the garage empty. If you’re interested in chasing this further then you need to weigh the tongue as loaded for travel. You’ve got all the other numbers.

What was the rear axle weight vs RAWR? With the tongue + golf cart you might be over.

 

[Montessa]

You bring up a good point. I did scale my rig loaded a few years ago at a Cat scale but lost the info. Truthfully, I got rid of the sheet and was only concerned about the overall weight. The other numbers on the slip didn't make any sense to at the time. Once I get the car running I will return to the scales for those numbers.

 

[392DevilDog]

Yeah. Your trailer weight is fine. It is actually light. The issue is all that tongue weight.

But, I bet when you load the car...that weight goes down considerably.

Also make sure you are returning enough weight to the front with the WDH. You want it back to its untrailered weight as close as possible. You need those front brakes and steer tires to be able to do there job.

 

[Montessa]

I bought a trailer toad last year due to my concerns. I set it up, I believe correctly, according to the instructions. I took 1 trip to my local track and could hardly keep the rig on the road! Due to the lack of tongue weight the trailer was pushing the truck all over the road. I stopped several times and changed the setup, but nothing seemed to correct the issue. After doing a little research, it appears that the toad is designed for motor homes pulling large trailers. The fact that a Class A or B has a lot more weight in the rear must be the difference. I talked to the Trailer Toad people at the time about a pickup hauling a heavy bumper pull and they did not tell me that the pickup setup could be an issue. Oh well, I guess I went to school again. I probably should try it again, once I figure the tongue weight thing, with the golf cart in the bed. Maybe that will an improvement.