New 2500

[Duck62]

Posted several times in here about Engines and rear ends and weight capacity for towing. I pulled into the driveway today with a 2020 Ram 2500 with the Cummins diesel. Towing a 30 Ft 8,000 lb trailer was white knuckle saying it mildly with the Ram 1500. Haven't hooked up yet, but it seems like one awesome truck. Thanks for all of the help the last few days.

 

[crash68]

Reading your post was sorta confusing at first, thought you were saying pulling a 30' 8K lbs trailer with a 2020 CTD was a white knuckle experience...there would be something wrong there, most likely negative tongue weight. One tip while pulling that trailer with your new CTD, don't forget the trailer is behind you...lol (you'll understand once your hooked up)
A lot of white knuckle experience is due to poor set up of the truck and trailer with the WDH. At times pull a trailer that's 32' overall that pushes the 8K lbs barrier with my EcoD, I can keep one hand on the wheel with the cruise set.

 

[Ramrodd]

Posted several times in here about Engines and rear ends and weight capacity for towing. I pulled into the driveway today with a 2020 Ram 2500 with the Cummins diesel. Towing a 30 Ft 8,000 lb trailer was white knuckle saying it mildly with the Ram 1500. Haven't hooked up yet, but it seems like one awesome truck. Thanks for all of the help the last few days.

Congrats on the new truck. I just upgraded to a 2019 2500 with the hemi and it is a world of difference from my 1500 pulling my 8k lb TT. I know with the diesel it will do great.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[14hemiexpress]

Congrats.

Now the pictures!

 

[Robeffy]

I guess I don't get something here.

Why does a 2500 tow better than a 1500?

Don't they have basically the same engine and trans? Same wheelbase? Same tires?

I have a 2017 24 ft RV trailer, weighs in at 4500 lbs. I plan on towing that with my 1995 dodge ram 1500,which I added a rad cooler to, trailer brakes, extra leaf spring. I just bought the trailer before the snow flew, so I haven't towed yet.

We are considering buying a 2020 Pentastar, 3.52 gear, posi, quad cab. So, why does the 2500 make a difference? The V6 has more torque and hp than my 5.2L Magnum in the 1995 truck.

 

[14hemiexpress]

I guess I don't get something here.

Why does a 2500 tow better than a 1500?

Don't they have basically the same engine and trans? Same wheelbase? Same tires?

I have a 2017 24 ft RV trailer, weighs in at 4500 lbs. I plan on towing that with my 1995 dodge ram 1500,which I added a rad cooler to, trailer brakes, extra leaf spring. I just bought the trailer before the snow flew, so I haven't towed yet.

We are considering buying a 2020 Pentastar, 3.52 gear, posi, quad cab. So, why does the 2500 make a difference? The V6 has more torque and hp than my 5.2L Magnum in the 1995 truck.

There is more than power to towing. The frame on a 2500 is stiffer the suspension is stiffer the brakes are bigger and it weighs more. All of that plays a part in keeping a large trailer more stable. Flexing and suspension compressing means the trailer is in control and that makes for a bad day. Now that v6 may have more torque than your 318 or what ever engine is in your 95 but you gotta watch torque curves. A v6 will make its torque at 4500 rpm vs a 318 making it at 2000 rpm where would you rather drive 4500 rpm going down the highway or 2000?

 

[Farmer Fran]

I guess I don't get something here.

Why does a 2500 tow better than a 1500?

Don't they have basically the same engine and trans? Same wheelbase? Same tires?

I have a 2017 24 ft RV trailer, weighs in at 4500 lbs. I plan on towing that with my 1995 dodge ram 1500,which I added a rad cooler to, trailer brakes, extra leaf spring. I just bought the trailer before the snow flew, so I haven't towed yet.

We are considering buying a 2020 Pentastar, 3.52 gear, posi, quad cab. So, why does the 2500 make a difference? The V6 has more torque and hp than my 5.2L Magnum in the 1995 truck.

A 1500 should handle a 4500lb trailer fine. But as stated a v6 is going to work pretty hard moving around ~11000lbs total weight.

 

[runamuck]

this is the same issue I have been wrestling with. my 1500 laramie pulls my 28' 6000# trailer pretty well but I cant take all the gear I would like because of limited cargo cap. so I have been shopping for a 2500. I didnt get one when I bought my laramie because they didnt have the 8 speed and folks said they were a little of a dog. now the '20s seem improved but they are 900-1000# heavier with only slightly more power and taller gears (3.73). dealers around here are discounting gasser 20's by 10,000$ now so gotta make decision.

 

[WY-Dave]

Congrats!

When I was tempted (then gave in) to get a truck for a 5th wheel, I had the choice of end-of-the-year deals on a 1500 truck with 10k vs a 2500 HD with 17k rating. We have a 8-9ooo small 5th wheel. What truck would be easier pulling one at 90% of max or one a lil over 50%. Then pulling is good to go, what about stopping. 2500 wins again. Even though mpg is not a real factor when buying trucks, but it would be a daily driver, so it did but a at low priority. WIth the lil that we tow, figured the 1500 took that one (I get low 17s DD). Upkeep, 2500 and it's 3 gal oil change$ and the 15k fuel filter$, 1500 won that one. DEF, well no contest there. What is really gonna suck is injector replacements. If my research was right LSD, 1500 clutch vs 2500 Torsen, 2500 gets this one. Cost, 2500 about $9k more.

So with the 1500 winning the cost logic, why the 2500? I traded in 2 Jeeps that had a measly 3k towing and our priority changed from "getting out there" to "getting out there with something that is more comfortable". And if I found something (car, tractor, skid steer, etc) that I wanted to get to the property, all I have to do is get the bro-in-laws car trailer and get it. Pretty much gone with the better the have and not need, than need and not have mentality.

At times I still think, damn why did I get this monster (esp when getting in and out haha), pretty much gone with the better the have and not need, than need and not have mentality to put that smile back on my face. And it is sure nice to have a 500ish mile capability when road tripping.

And the "better have" mentality proved good. This year I helped the B-I-L evacuate his ranch that was under threat from this year's wildfires. Imagine trying the 1500 pulling this thing (est 13k weight fully loaded with evac stuff).

View media item 30093
And last thing from this ramblin, If your truck has the Firestone tires on it, GET RID OF THEM! And one last, last thing, as always winds suck. We average about 10 road closures for high profile vehicles here in the windy Wyoming.

 

[Robeffy]

A 1500 should handle a 4500lb trailer fine. But as stated a v6 is going to work pretty hard moving around ~11000lbs total weight.

I get the idea that a V6 is going to work hard to tow this.
My current truck is a 95 Ram 1500, 5.2 l engine, with 220 hp ( vs 305 hp ) and the same torque rating, 300 ft-lbs. I would bet that the V6 with the Variable valve timing and a flat torque curve, from 1800 rpm to 6300 rpm, will pull better than my V8.

I also have 3 speeds available, when I put it into tow mode and lockout the overdrive. The new truck has a 8 speed, and even in tow mode it will likely let me use 6 speeds. i am planning on getting the 3.55 gears, as the 3.21 gears won't work with the trailer weight. Supposedly the standard rear gears were 3.55 in my truck.. I doubt I have 3.92.

I just looked up a torque curve, the closest I can find is a typical curve that peaks around 3000 rpm and drops off pretty aggressively after that.

My guess is the V6 will out tow the V8, only because of the torque curve. Variable Cam timing... 90% of full torque from 1800 rpm all the way to 6350 rpm.. double the gears, 80 more hp, same rear end gears.

 

[Robeffy]

There is more than power to towing. The frame on a 2500 is stiffer the suspension is stiffer the brakes are bigger and it weighs more. All of that plays a part in keeping a large trailer more stable. Flexing and suspension compressing means the trailer is in control and that makes for a bad day. Now that v6 may have more torque than your 318 or what ever engine is in your 95 but you gotta watch torque curves. A v6 will make its torque at 4500 rpm vs a 318 making it at 2000 rpm where would you rather drive 4500 rpm going down the highway or 2000?

I just looked this up, the 5.2L Magnum makes torque upto 3000 rpm, pretty flat, but then it drops off badly. The V6 Pentastar makes 90% of full rated torque from 1800 rpm to 6350 rpm, because it has variable cam timing ( sort of like a Honda with VVT ).

I have to agree with everything else you said, stiffer frame, bigger brakes, more weight. That all makes so much sense.. My buddy built a street rod, with a 454 motor. It scared the "heck" out of me, you could feel everything flexing whenever he stepped on it, or braked for a corner..

The V6 has 8 speed, the V8 has 4, but in tow mode, the V8 has 3 speeds, and the V6 will likely have 6 speeds.. They both have the same rear gears, 3.55, but the V6 new truck will have 18" tires, not 16". I expect the V6 to run at a slower speed than the V8.

Humm, its food for thought, I have driven in a few 2500 trucks, and they feel so much more solid than a 1500, even when not towing.

Thanks for your comments

 

[Farmer Fran]

I get the idea that a V6 is going to work hard to tow this.
My current truck is a 95 Ram 1500, 5.2 l engine, with 220 hp ( vs 305 hp ) and the same torque rating, 300 ft-lbs. I would bet that the V6 with the Variable valve timing and a flat torque curve, from 1800 rpm to 6300 rpm, will pull better than my V8.

I also have 3 speeds available, when I put it into tow mode and lockout the overdrive. The new truck has a 8 speed, and even in tow mode it will likely let me use 6 speeds. i am planning on getting the 3.55 gears, as the 3.21 gears won't work with the trailer weight. Supposedly the standard rear gears were 3.55 in my truck.. I doubt I have 3.92.

I just looked up a torque curve, the closest I can find is a typical curve that peaks around 3000 rpm and drops off pretty aggressively after that.

My guess is the V6 will out tow the V8, only because of the torque curve. Variable Cam timing... 90% of full torque from 1800 rpm all the way to 6350 rpm.. double the gears, 80 more hp, same rear end gears.

I agree that the current V6 can tow better than a truck that is 25 years old, but I would not want to move 11K+lbs with a V6.

Let us know how things go!

 

[14hemiexpress]

I just looked this up, the 5.2L Magnum makes torque upto 3000 rpm, pretty flat, but then it drops off badly. The V6 Pentastar makes 90% of full rated torque from 1800 rpm to 6350 rpm, because it has variable cam timing ( sort of like a Honda with VVT ).

I have to agree with everything else you said, stiffer frame, bigger brakes, more weight. That all makes so much sense.. My buddy built a street rod, with a 454 motor. It scared the "heck" out of me, you could feel everything flexing whenever he stepped on it, or braked for a corner..

The V6 has 8 speed, the V8 has 4, but in tow mode, the V8 has 3 speeds, and the V6 will likely have 6 speeds.. They both have the same rear gears, 3.55, but the V6 new truck will have 18" tires, not 16". I expect the V6 to run at a slower speed than the V8.

Humm, its food for thought, I have driven in a few 2500 trucks, and they feel so much more solid than a 1500, even when not towing.

Thanks for your comments

I never said the current v6 wouldnt out preform the 25 year old 5.2l I merely said it would do it with more rpm. If your ok with rpm the 2020 3.6l 8spd will be better than a 95 5.2l and that is due to the 8speed transmission. The 3.6l makes 269 torque at 4250 the 5.2l makes 295 at 3000.

 

[Robeffy]

I never said the current v6 wouldnt out preform the 25 year old 5.2l I merely said it would do it with more rpm. If your ok with rpm the 2020 3.6l 8spd will be better than a 95 5.2l and that is due to the 8speed transmission. The 3.6l makes 269 torque at 4250 the 5.2l makes 295 at 3000.

Ya, not sure it will matter to me, so, I could be okay with the higher rpm.

What bothers me are the tons of Hemi / cam / lifter threads... or I would be all over a Hemi..

The Eco Diesel seems to be even worse for engine problems.

I have been looking at used Eco-Diesels, could be me, just getting into this, but the eco diesels don't seem to be holding their price very well?

 

[Robeffy]

Considering that I drive about 10,000 km a year, not sure I want to spend the bucks on a Cummins...

To me, its either a V6 or a Cummins..

 

[14hemiexpress]

Considering that I drive about 10,000 km a year, not sure I want to spend the bucks on a Cummins...

To me, its either a V6 or a Cummins..

I would get a hemi over either all day long. You see the cam/lifter issues on here and other places not that you 100% wont get one with that issue. What no one jumps on here to say is how good the engine truly is every one talks about there problems. I personally have had 4 hemi's 3 5.7l and 1 6.4l. My brother has 1 5.7l my dad has had 2, 1 5.7l, 1 6.4l, a buddy of mine has had 2 5.7ls and his dad has had 3 5.7ls. Only engine issues I can think of was a cam sensor on my buddy's dads 05 I had broken exhaust manifold stud on my 10 and my brother currently one on his 14. I know 2 of those have over 200k. My brother in law is still driving my 2010 with over 200k and my buddy's dads 05 is creeping the 300k mark. The gen 3 hemi is over 17 years old it's a very established engine. Problem with a cummins If you dont need one is the emissions and cost. The 3.6l problems I see is underpowered for towing and you get the weaker 8hp45 trans insted of the 8hp75 in the current model. My mom has the 3.6 in her 300 and it's been great, it's a fantastic engine just isn't for a truck with trailers behind it just my .02.

When my wifes eco boost in her expidition bites me she'll have a 5.7l in a 1500.

 

[ramffml]

Considering that I drive about 10,000 km a year, not sure I want to spend the bucks on a Cummins...

To me, its either a V6 or a Cummins..

If I were you, I'd consider a v6 test drive before making a purchase. I had the same v6 in my Jeep GC and there is no way I'd consider pulling > 5000 pounds with that thing (strictly in terms of engine power). Torque curves aside, to me it felt like the v6 didn't begin to make serious power until 2600+.

I did have the mercedes 5 speed instead of the zf 8 speed in the ram, but still. The hemi outperforms it by a very wide margin once you start working them. Considering your low yearly mileage, you may get away with the v6 and of course, everybody has different comfort levels on how much they're willing to push an engine.

I read a comment either on this forum or somewhere else, a guy said "If you can't tow your trailer in 1:1 gear ratio, then your truck isn't big enough", and I've always thought the same. With the zf, 1 to 1 is in 6th gear, 7 and 8 being over drives, so my truck can comfortably tow my trailer in 6th on the freeway (flat roads, hills of course require downshifts) which is right where I want to be. If I had the v6, no doubt it would be spending much more time in 5th.

 

[Robeffy]

Yes, we are both ( wife and I ) concerned that we buy wrong, and pay a lot of money for the mistake.

I started another thread on the forum, and I am trying to determine 1) if the cam lifter problem has gone away? 2) if it went away, what year did it get fixed.

We would both prefer a Hemi motor to the V6. If we weren't towing, I would simply buy the V6.

Thats all great advice from both of you, Ramffml and 14hemiexpress.

Its very interesting to hear of how many guys are not having issues, makes me really want to find out if motors after ( just guessing here ) 2016 don't have the problem..

I would be fine buying a 2017 or newer, off lease machine, Hemi wise, if I am reasonably sure I don't an issue.

 

[NorthStar1]

We've had numerous Rams in the family through the years with Hemi's and never an issue - ever. Before that we had 318's - never an issue ever. Have had two Ecodiesels and both died horrible deaths due to inherent problems with the engines. We had one Laramie in the family with the 3.6L and it was a great truck but there is no way we woud have considered towing anything with it that we'd tow with the Hemi. The 3.6L is a great engine but there is no replacement for displacement when towing...of course a Ford Ecoboost owner would argue the replacement is turbos but that's an argument I wouldn't even consider discussing.

 

[Robeffy]

We've had numerous Rams in the family through the years with Hemi's and never an issue - ever. Before that we had 318's - never an issue ever. Have had two Ecodiesels and both died horrible deaths due to inherent problems with the engines. We had one Laramie in the family with the 3.6L and it was a great truck but there is no way we woud have considered towing anything with it that we'd tow with the Hemi. The 3.6L is a great engine but there is no replacement for displacement when towing...of course a Ford Ecoboost owner would argue the replacement is turbos but that's an argument I wouldn't even consider discussing.

Yes, my friend was towing in the Rockies, pulled in for gas, saw a bunch of Ford Ecoboost trucks parked there. They all blew up on the long uphill grade.
Too much heat, from the continuous turbo boost.
Not enough air getting thru the air cleaner for the higher altitude, so, the garage owner suggested putting a much bigger than stock air cleaner assembly on if towing in hilly terrain, especially with a turbo.
I suspect we are buying a Cummins, we own trucks for 10 years or more, so, the extra bucks over 10 years... no hassle towing.. higher resale..don't have to worry about hillls.. so many reasons to pay a bit more