Oil Filter Thread

[Burla]

machinelube pic a filter

My takeway from that is how important filtration is to longevity of an engine, more so then oil choice. So since there are so few options, what is gonna be better then spun MICRO glass for the hemi? I would suggest it would be easier to get a clump from the paper filter to break off then spun glass.

 

[U&A]

Fair enough, most often when I see people talking about lean meat its usually mentioned as if that's a good thing, guess I interpreted your post the same way.

Ah gotcha

Yah your right. Lot of people still think that.

I eat LOTS of healthy fats. You are spot on with that. To be honest the “food pyramid” is a crock of $h!t put on by the FDA for a particular reason. And the reason is not health eating

 

[Hemi395]

I mean at this point a Fram orange filter would've been better for me...

 

[Burla]

I get it bro, the question should be answered by rp to the why. It is either something that happened after production or during production, I would want that answered.

Makes me think we should also have an air filter thread after seeing how important micron ratings are, gonna replace my air filter when it warms up outside.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'd eat horse if I had too, but it is last on the list just because of the cowboy horse partnership. I would however need some bbq sauce to choke it down.

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Does anyone have any info on micron size of loose glass media? I would not hardly worry about tbh, but if you are worried you can bypass to a double filter and use one paper and one spun glass? What happened to Corey's filter was way out of whack, hard to kn ow the why that happened.

Remember I think Travis telling us about Cummins stop selling Stratopore microglass Fleetguard filters because of glass shards in oil causing wear? Keeping in mind those are million mile diesel engines.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I get it bro, the question should be answered by rp to the why. It is either something that happened after production or during production, I would want that answered.

Makes me think we should also have an air filter thread after seeing how important micron ratings are, gonna replace my air filter when it warms up outside.

Ok, you've woken a long dormant synapse.

Back in my Mobil days, I had access to free UOA at Mobil Labs. So, being the ever-ana*l engineer, I experimented on my own car. I pulled UOA's every couple thousand miles using the original formula Mobil 1 during the early days, all PAO base stock.

My oil finally condemned @ 14,000 miles due to silica from dirt ingestion through the air filter.

*end synapse firing*

 

[HEMIMANN]

machinelube pic a filter

My takeway from that is how important filtration is to longevity of an engine, more so then oil choice. So since there are so few options, what is gonna be better then spun MICRO glass for the hemi? I would suggest it would be easier to get a clump from the paper filter to break off then spun glass.

They've gone to spun micro polypropylene, remember this discussion about temperature limits of plastics?

Edit: they also switched from spun microglass to spun polypropylene for my water well sediment filter. That switch could be just for cost reduction, maybe somebody shredded their guts from glass shards, I dunno.

But I will remind why there is OSHA requirement to wear a particle / dust mask while installing fiberglass insulation for a reason. They were investigating if the broken fibers when inhaled also cause cancer from getting deep enough into lungs like asbestos fibers.

 

[huntergreen]

Fair enough, most often when I see people talking about lean meat its usually mentioned as if that's a good thing, guess I interpreted your post the same way.

And yet I can’t find a cardiologist that agrees with your premise.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Just yesterday I ordered a RP 20-820 from Summit. My intention is to use it with an oil change, not crack it open it for inspection.
I plan to check it out as thoroughly as I can from the outside and still intact.
Hopefully I will have something to report next week, one way or the other.

Referencing one of @Burla recent posts I replaced my current air filter or unknown origin (I simply don't recall but most likely a Fram or Purolator) with an OEM I purchased from my dealer.

OUCH! $70 with tax. I'm feeling pretty good about it though, the seal on the OEM was visibly larger and thicker than the one I took out. The only visible diff in the filter media is the color going from yellow-ish to white.

 

[ramffml]

And yet I can’t find a cardiologist that agrees with your premise.

They're out there! So many guys have posted blood work on the internet detailing this after switching to keto/caveman/low carb type diets. All the bio markers improve, bad cholesterol goes down, type 2 diabetes is reversed (partly or in whole), the beer gut disappears etc.

This video here was one that I bookmarked years ago when I started looking into this:

Type 2 diabetes | Sarah Hallberg | TEDxPurdueU

NOTE FROM TED: Do not look to this talk for medical advice. Significantly restricting dietary carbohydrates can have adverse health consequences if not caref...

www.youtube.com

 

[HEMIMANN]

Everything ages my bordozer.

Everything.

But I totally get what you are saying and it makes sense about the glass fibers. They “should” Last a super long time.

Edit. If I have the chance and a good enough memory ill cut open one of my filters today.

I was wrong Corey. I have 14 left from when we all bought a bunch of them.

Not in meaningful timelines.......https://www.conserve-energy-future.com/is-glass-biodegradable.php#:~:text=In%20every%20processed%20form%2C%20glass,change%20its%20non%2Dbiodegradable%20nature.

 

[Burla]

Just yesterday I ordered a RP 20-820 from Summit. My intention is to use it with an oil change, not crack it open it for inspection.
I plan to check it out as thoroughly as I can from the outside and still intact.
Hopefully I will have something to report next week, one way or the other.

Referencing one of @Burla recent posts I replaced my current air filter or unknown origin (I simply don't recall but most likely a Fram or Purolator) with an OEM I purchased from my dealer.

OUCH! $70 with tax. I'm feeling pretty good about it though, the seal on the OEM was visibly larger and thicker than the one I took out. The only visible diff in the filter media is the color going from yellow-ish to white.

One thing I would do it look for any rust, that is one thing coreys had that mine dont, a lot of rust on the visable plate. So it looks like a little rust has more implications now then before we seen coreys post.

 

[Burla]

The next sentence after the highlighted - Glass is resilient, especially when you are holding a quality product. However, these things are also fragile and cannot hold up forever.

Bottom line if you are gonna store filters, put some effort in storing them in ideal conditions, kinda like fine wine, lol.

But corey's issue was something else, we need to figure this out best we can imo. I will see about working with corey to maybe solve this, dunno.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Here's a thread from Bob's 17 years ago about this very topic -

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/polypropylene-oil-filter.27268/

 

[HEMIMANN]

machinelube pic a filter

My takeway from that is how important filtration is to longevity of an engine, more so then oil choice. So since there are so few options, what is gonna be better then spun MICRO glass for the hemi? I would suggest it would be easier to get a clump from the paper filter to break off then spun glass.

This is an excellent article. Please note how the focus on filter efficiency versus reduction in engine wear affects engines only out to lifespans that are close to end of expected life for gasoline engines.

The real benefit of high efficiency oil filtration is for rebuildable diesel engines.

As we've said before, for HEMI gasoline engines, low oil flow restriction is far more important than high efficiency filtration, or even breakdown of glass media. i.e. - a wiped lifter and cam matters a helluva lot more than hitting 200,000 miles out of your personal truck from less engine wear.

 

[ramffml]

This is an excellent article. Please note how the focus on filter efficiency versus reduction in engine wear affects engines only out to lifespans that are close to end of expected life for gasoline engines.

The real benefit of high efficiency oil filtration is for rebuildable diesel engines.

As we've said before, for HEMI gasoline engines, low oil flow restriction is far more important than high efficiency filtration, or even breakdown of glass media. i.e. - a wiped lifter and cam matters a helluva lot more than hitting 200,000 miles out of your personal truck from less engine wear.

I'm confused, but don't worry it happens easily.

From the article:

In a related study on both diesel and automotive engines, General Motors reported that “compared to a 40-micron filter, engine wear was reduced by 50 percent with 30-micron filtration. Likewise, wear was reduced by 70 percent with 15-micron filtration”. Read that again. That's a lot of motivation for clean oil!

Reducing wear by 70% over a typical off the shelf filter by dropping to a 15 micron rating, that's massive and costs only a few extra dollars for the price of the filter once or twice a year?

Ok, so assuming that we can't have good flow and filtering (though I believe Fram Ultra/RP do offer this to quite an extent), I'm confused about flow as well, because our engines have a postitive displacement oil pump. There is nothing a filter can do to stop the flow, the pump will push the same volume of oil through regardless of how restrictive the filter is/gets. The PSI will change yes, but the flow is constant... until we hit the pressure of the bypass valve in which case it opens and we unfiltered oil for a second. My understanding is that its difficult to force the bypass to open unless you rev the engine way up on a very cold start or the filter is clogged from way too many miles of use.

So wouldn't it be better to focus on the high efficiency filters like we've been doing here all along? Fram + RP? I'm definitely interested in getting 50 to 70 percent less wear in the lifetime of my engine.

 

[U&A]

They've gone to spun micro polypropylene, remember this discussion about temperature limits of plastics?

Edit: they also switched from spun microglass to spun polypropylene for my water well sediment filter. That switch could be just for cost reduction, maybe somebody shredded their guts from glass shards, I dunno.

But I will remind why there is OSHA requirement to wear a particle / dust mask while installing fiberglass insulation for a reason. They were investigating if the broken fibers when inhaled also cause cancer from getting deep enough into lungs like asbestos fibers.

YES!

 

[U&A]

So when people that live in extreme cold climates, get zero greens in their diet almost absolute enormous amounts of fats to replace carbohydrates they also cant eat much of and lots of meat. Amazingly they live just as long as us or longer.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'm confused, but don't worry it happens easily.

From the article:


Reducing wear by 70% over a typical off the shelf filter by dropping to a 15 micron rating, that's massive and costs only a few extra dollars for the price of the filter once or twice a year?

Ok, so assuming that we can't have good flow and filtering (though I believe Fram Ultra/RP do offer this to quite an extent), I'm confused about flow as well, because our engines have a postitive displacement oil pump. There is nothing a filter can do to stop the flow, the pump will push the same volume of oil through regardless of how restrictive the filter is/gets. The PSI will change yes, but the flow is constant... until we hit the pressure of the bypass valve in which case it opens and we unfiltered oil for a second. My understanding is that its difficult to force the bypass to open unless you rev the engine way up on a very cold start or the filter is clogged from way too many miles of use.

So wouldn't it be better to focus on the high efficiency filters like we've been doing here all along? Fram + RP? I'm definitely interested in getting 50 to 70 percent less wear in the lifetime of my engine.

Not for the engine clearances and impact on engine wear. 70% wear reduction means nothing without a baseline of what "zero" wear is. They show a chart from the test what that means. That's why I'm talking about 200,000 miles of wear vs. 1,000,000 miles of wear. Clearly, efficient media is essential for diesel engine longevity. Not so much for gasoline engines.

Now on to the more difficult part - you CAN have good flow and filtering IF there is large enough media surface area and it has equal pore sizes - which you only get from wound media. Forget the bypass valve. It shouldn't be open and it only protects the media from collapse due to contaminant saturation.

What I'm seeing is that gerotor pumps will change flow and pressure together depending on total flow circuit restriction. Oil Pressure gauges read lower with higher flow, in general. This was an issue with 1st synthetic oils that cut pressure sender gauge readings in half. The oil was both thinner below 100C and higher lubricity. People panicked that their engine wasn't being oiled, but it was in fact, being oiled better.

 

[Wild one]

I get it bro, the question should be answered by rp to the why. It is either something that happened after production or during production, I would want that answered.

Makes me think we should also have an air filter thread after seeing how important micron ratings are, gonna replace my air filter when it warms up outside.

I've used a clean white rag to check air filters,pull the duct to the throttle body off,and wipe the inside of the duct closest to the air filter with the rag,if it picks up anything,change the filter to a better one Mike. I've found K&N's and oiled filters to be the worst filters for passing dust