Pentastar V-6 cooling questions

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Different Drummer

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Posts
543
Reaction score
540
Location
North East
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Pentastar V6
Anyone have definitive answers for the following?
1) What is the temperature Spec. for the coolant thermostat? Seems like I see figures ranging from 190 -203 -213.
I know a replacement at NAPA is listed as 190. An online RAM dealer has an aluminum housing one that during a "chat" session the Rep. did not know and said that their parts Dept would contact me, but that's not happened.

2) What influences when the AGS open and close? i.e. Engine temp?, A/C turned on? Maybe influenced by "tow haul"?

3) What influences when the electric fan runs? Again, engine Temp?, A/C use? etc.
Can anyone supply information and sources beyond speculation?
Thanks
 
OP
OP
D

Different Drummer

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Posts
543
Reaction score
540
Location
North East
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Pentastar V6
Not much love for the Pentastar I guess, resulting in limited Info out there.
I was at two dealerships today. neither one could tell me the Temp. rating of the stock thermostat. Got the usual reply of " They run hot".
They said only plastic replacement housings were available with the thermostat installed and they could not order a thermostat separately. I told them I thought that an aluminum one was available. They disagreed. I gave them a Mopar part number and asked them to look it up. Guess what!! Yup, aluminum housing with the latest superseding suffix. But, still no Info on the Temp. setting.
They also had no Info on what Temp the electric fan engages at or any other parameters for engaging the fan or opening the AGS.
Go figure.
 

Gort

Member
Military
Joined
Jul 12, 2021
Posts
59
Reaction score
70
Location
South Central PA
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Hemi 6.4
I don't have a Pentastar in my Ram, but I do have one in my Wrangler. I honestly couldn't tell you what the temp of the thermostat is without searching the Jeep forums, nor am I sure it's the same temp as used in the Ram.

I do know the Pentastars run on the warm side, though, so the dealership wasn't kidding you. Interesting that you found an aluminum housing -- I didn't know they existed. I just replaced my Wrangler's thermostat with the OEM factory plastic crap.

Can you share the part number for the aluminum housing? Curious if that'd fit my Wrangler.
 

SitKneelBend

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Posts
9,065
Reaction score
4,746
Location
St. Louis
Ram Year
2014
Engine
3.6 Pentastar
Not much love for the Pentastar I guess, resulting in limited Info out there.
I was at two dealerships today. neither one could tell me the Temp. rating of the stock thermostat. Got the usual reply of " They run hot".
They said only plastic replacement housings were available with the thermostat installed and they could not order a thermostat separately. I told them I thought that an aluminum one was available. They disagreed. I gave them a Mopar part number and asked them to look it up. Guess what!! Yup, aluminum housing with the latest superseding suffix. But, still no Info on the Temp. setting.
They also had no Info on what Temp the electric fan engages at or any other parameters for engaging the fan or opening the AGS.
Go figure.
We are going to need that part number. One can't go about stating such coveted parts exist and not offer proof! A MOPAR part too?!
 
OP
OP
D

Different Drummer

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Posts
543
Reaction score
540
Location
North East
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Pentastar V6
I don't have a Pentastar in my Ram, but I do have one in my Wrangler. I honestly couldn't tell you what the temp of the thermostat is without searching the Jeep forums, nor am I sure it's the same temp as used in the Ram.

I do know the Pentastars run on the warm side, though, so the dealership wasn't kidding you. Interesting that you found an aluminum housing -- I didn't know they existed. I just replaced my Wrangler's thermostat with the OEM factory plastic crap.

Can you share the part number for the aluminum housing? Curious if that'd fit my Wrangler.
Thanks for the reply. Part number is 4893865AC. One dealer after he looked it up said that it supersedes the same number ending in AB. The AB number was for a plastic assembly.
Does your Wrangler give you an actual readout as to the temp it is running? Can you give me some numbers? You know what they say about teaching old dogs new stuff. This old dog just cannot get used to coolant Temps in the 220's with similar oil temps. Admittedly that is on hot days in slow traffic.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
D

Different Drummer

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Posts
543
Reaction score
540
Location
North East
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Pentastar V6
We are going to need that part number. One can't go about stating such coveted parts exist and not offer proof! A MOPAR part too?!
:Whoa: Look above!
I didn't do it deliberately but dangling that bit of information at least got me a couple of replies!! :signs8:
 
Last edited:

Gort

Member
Military
Joined
Jul 12, 2021
Posts
59
Reaction score
70
Location
South Central PA
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Thanks for the reply. Part number is 4893865AC. One dealer after he looked it up said that it supersedes the same number ending in AB.
Thanks for the PN -- sadly, it doesn't fit a Wrangler.
Does your Wrangler give you an actual readout as to the temp it is running? Can you give me some numbers? You know what they say about teaching old dogs new stuff. This old dog just cannot get used to coolant Temps in the 220's with similar oil temps. Admittedly that is on hot days in slow traffic.
No, my Wrangler is a 2012 -- it doesn't have a fancy-schmancy information center like the Rams and the newer Wranglers do. The only way I can get that info is to plug my laptop into the OBDII port and run my diag. software (or another higher-end scan tool, I suppose).

(Edit -- did a quick search and found the temp)
If memory serves from reading the Jeep forums, I want to say the normal coolant temp is in the neighborhood of 230 (deg. F), but I may be mistaken -- as I said, I'm going from memory.
 
OP
OP
D

Different Drummer

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Posts
543
Reaction score
540
Location
North East
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Pentastar V6
Thanks Gort,
If 230*F is what the jeeps are in fact running I guess my Temps. are not crazy high.
 
Last edited:

Gort

Member
Military
Joined
Jul 12, 2021
Posts
59
Reaction score
70
Location
South Central PA
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Thanks Gort,
If 230*F is what the jeeps are in fact running I guess my Temps. are not crazy high.
Yeah, my Wrangler does run on the warm side. I recall reading some post claiming it was somehow emissions related, but if your Ram is running cooler then I don't buy that emissions argument.

I've been looking for a replacement radiator for it with better cooling capacity, but the only ones that I can find are aluminum and have tons of negative reviews indicating that they start leaking about a year (or less) after installation. Some people swear by them but they're in the minority when it comes to the reviews.

I may just replace it with an OEM radiator and see how low temp. a thermostat that I can find for it.
 
OP
OP
D

Different Drummer

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Posts
543
Reaction score
540
Location
North East
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Pentastar V6
Yeah, my Wrangler does run on the warm side. I recall reading some post claiming it was somehow emissions related, but if your Ram is running cooler then I don't buy that emissions argument.

I've been looking for a replacement radiator for it with better cooling capacity, but the only ones that I can find are aluminum and have tons of negative reviews indicating that they start leaking about a year (or less) after installation. Some people swear by them but they're in the minority when it comes to the reviews.

I may just replace it with an OEM radiator and see how low temp. a thermostat that I can find for it.
I can tell you this much. I asked to see the thermostat that NAPA sells and lists as 190* I examined it pretty closely and I believe that the thermostat is removable from the housing.
RIPP supercharger sells a 180 degree thermostat for the V6 Pentastar. It is the thermostat only, no housing.

If my housing is like the housing I saw at NAPA I don't see why a RIPP thermostat could not be placed in the original housing. Probably would work in the Wrangler housing as well.
For someone with a RAM there is also the possibility of placing the RIPP thermostat in the Aluminum housing I posted the part number for.
One of the reasons I am trying to get the Temp. specifications on the factory stock thermostat is to compare it to the NAPA 190 degree and the RIPP 180 degree thermostats.
If my stock thermostat is already 190* there is no sense replacing it with another 190* unless it is defective and I don't believe that to be the case. However, if my stock thermostast is 203* or even higher I would consider the NAPA 190* or using the RIPP in my original housing or in the available aluminum housing.
The aluminum housing is supplied with a thermostat but it seems to be a mystery as to it's Temp. specification. Wouldn't it be nice if it was a lower Spec. than what came in my truck!
I could just buy the complete assembly. I am not sure I want to go down to the RIPP 180*.
Stop in a NAPA and see what they have as a replacement for your Wrangler. It might be something that would work for you.

Edit: The Al radiators are supposed to cool better than the copper / brass. They should as Al dissipates heat better. Too bad the one for your Wrangler seems to be short lived. I had to put a "Heat Buster" radiator in a 1988 GMC 3500 I rebuilt and had a pretty large slide in camper on. I used the copper and brass but would probably have gone with Al if I knew one was available. There is something to be said for the old school stuff. I run a 180* thermostat in the GMC and it will warm up to just under 180 and stay steady there. On a real hot day if I work it hard it will stay steady at about 185* No vacillating up and down.
 
Last edited:

SitKneelBend

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Posts
9,065
Reaction score
4,746
Location
St. Louis
Ram Year
2014
Engine
3.6 Pentastar
If only they'd do the same with the oil filter housing too!
 

erik53

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2021
Posts
12
Reaction score
4
Location
Arizona
Ram Year
2022
Engine
6.4 Hemi
While towing a 3700 gross lbs camper with my 3.6 L 3.55:1 big horn crew cab on 5-6% hills, I often get to where the temp gauge starts rising. To avoid a temp warning I need to turn off the A/C and/or slow down to 40 mph once I see the needle start moving upwards. I have not been looking at the individual fluids detailed display. Bottom line is the issue doesn't affect total trip times much, and I can live with it, but naturally I am interested in ways to improve cooling. I went to a shop that does nothing but radiators and mufflers. I asked about the affordable third party radiators. I could have one installed for just $100 labor. Cheaper than cleaning the original radiator. The guy advised strongly against it. For the given overall size of the radiator, performance depends on the number of straight tubes that run in parallel to conduct the fluid from input tank to output tank (surrounded by vertical cooling fins). The replacement units have fewer tubes in parallel, and cooling is correspondingly worse, as evidenced by poor results seen in customer vehicles. I had the shop take my (original) radiator out. I was told it is a very fine radiator, and identical to the one used for the hemi. I had them remove the (plastic) tank on one side, and stream water from the other tank. Water was seen coming out equally from all of the little tubes. Thus: no blockage. Had there been any, the standard procedure at this shop was to clean inside the little tubes mechanically with a straight metal wire. I asked about chemical cleaning. I was told that chemicals are appropriate for brass/copper radiators, but not for aluminum. My radiator required no cleaning on the inside, but some dust accumulated on the outside of fins (in a limited area) was removed. I guess I could have done this myself with a water or air hose.

I am not a gearhead, but as an engineer I am curious to learn about all cooling functions in to my vehicle, not just engine cooling, but also transmission cooling and A/C cooling. I have asked questions at a couple of dealerships and learned nothing. Maybe someone here can help me understand the basics.

I recall that when I purchased the vehicle new, I was told that an extra transmission fluid cooler was part of the included tow package. Where is the standard transmission fluid cooler located? Is it part of the radiator? And where would I look to see the extra transmission fluid cooler? Is there also supposed to be a cooler for the engine oil? And what is AGS? Where does the A/C dispose of heat?

Towing more weight, on a steeper grade, at higher speed, expends energy at a higher rate, regardless of the particular engine doing the work. If I had a hemi doing the same towing job, and if its efficiency were the same as the pentastar, then the radiator would have to radiate the same amount of heat. My guess is that the hemi would generate a bit more heat to do the same. I have been told that the actual radiator would be the same. Yet I have the unconfirmed impression that people with hemi's would be able to tow more up those same hills, with a bigger trailer,without overheating. Why? Maybe the fan (fans?) send more air through the radiator? If I set the vehicle idling from cold, after a while the fan comes on, but seems to run slowly, and not making the kind of roaring noise that my old chevy V8 would make when the mechanical clutch kicked in. Maybe for the V6, the fan is run at a slower speed when running at all? I tried to find out about how fan speed is controlled. It is hard to find information online. I found one article from a Wrangler owner who stated that on the Jeep, there is only one fan relay used, and it just turns off the fan, or connects the full battery voltage. The third wire going into the fan's electronics was said to carry a pulse modulated control signal to tell the fan how fast to run. The wiring on my fan looks just like that in the article. Could it be that the RAM fan works just like on the Wrangler? At this point I consulted a local mechanic for a fee. He had access of official RAM documentation. It didn't really explain things, but there was a wiring diagram. It confirmed the single relay, single voltage used for running the fan. However, the third wire was labeled to suggest the it tells the computer about the actual fan speed, rather than letting the computer tell the fan how fast to run. I would really like to understand whether the fan is supposed to run at more than one speed, and how this is done.

It seems that I am not the only one interested in better cooling. We all drool about horsepower and other specifications when we buy a vehicle. Why is there no numeric measure of cooling capacities among commonly listed spec's?
 

15 Handicap

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Posts
248
Reaction score
157
Location
Central Florida
Ram Year
2018
Engine
Blue Streak Pearl Coat 3.6
Have any of you done the AGS delete yet? works like a champ. Temps down to 195-204 even with my camper being towed(approx. 3700#).
 
OP
OP
D

Different Drummer

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Posts
543
Reaction score
540
Location
North East
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Pentastar V6
While towing a 3700 gross lbs camper with my 3.6 L 3.55:1 big horn crew cab on 5-6% hills, I often get to where the temp gauge starts rising. To avoid a temp warning I need to turn off the A/C and/or slow down to 40 mph once I see the needle start moving upwards. I have not been looking at the individual fluids detailed display. Bottom line is the issue doesn't affect total trip times much, and I can live with it, but naturally I am interested in ways to improve cooling. I went to a shop that does nothing but radiators and mufflers. I asked about the affordable third party radiators. I could have one installed for just $100 labor. Cheaper than cleaning the original radiator. The guy advised strongly against it. For the given overall size of the radiator, performance depends on the number of straight tubes that run in parallel to conduct the fluid from input tank to output tank (surrounded by vertical cooling fins). The replacement units have fewer tubes in parallel, and cooling is correspondingly worse, as evidenced by poor results seen in customer vehicles. I had the shop take my (original) radiator out. I was told it is a very fine radiator, and identical to the one used for the hemi. I had them remove the (plastic) tank on one side, and stream water from the other tank. Water was seen coming out equally from all of the little tubes. Thus: no blockage. Had there been any, the standard procedure at this shop was to clean inside the little tubes mechanically with a straight metal wire. I asked about chemical cleaning. I was told that chemicals are appropriate for brass/copper radiators, but not for aluminum. My radiator required no cleaning on the inside, but some dust accumulated on the outside of fins (in a limited area) was removed. I guess I could have done this myself with a water or air hose.

I am not a gearhead, but as an engineer I am curious to learn about all cooling functions in to my vehicle, not just engine cooling, but also transmission cooling and A/C cooling. I have asked questions at a couple of dealerships and learned nothing. Maybe someone here can help me understand the basics.

I recall that when I purchased the vehicle new, I was told that an extra transmission fluid cooler was part of the included tow package. Where is the standard transmission fluid cooler located? Is it part of the radiator? And where would I look to see the extra transmission fluid cooler? Is there also supposed to be a cooler for the engine oil? And what is AGS? Where does the A/C dispose of heat?

Towing more weight, on a steeper grade, at higher speed, expends energy at a higher rate, regardless of the particular engine doing the work. If I had a hemi doing the same towing job, and if its efficiency were the same as the pentastar, then the radiator would have to radiate the same amount of heat. My guess is that the hemi would generate a bit more heat to do the same. I have been told that the actual radiator would be the same. Yet I have the unconfirmed impression that people with hemi's would be able to tow more up those same hills, with a bigger trailer,without overheating. Why? Maybe the fan (fans?) send more air through the radiator? If I set the vehicle idling from cold, after a while the fan comes on, but seems to run slowly, and not making the kind of roaring noise that my old chevy V8 would make when the mechanical clutch kicked in. Maybe for the V6, the fan is run at a slower speed when running at all? I tried to find out about how fan speed is controlled. It is hard to find information online. I found one article from a Wrangler owner who stated that on the Jeep, there is only one fan relay used, and it just turns off the fan, or connects the full battery voltage. The third wire going into the fan's electronics was said to carry a pulse modulated control signal to tell the fan how fast to run. The wiring on my fan looks just like that in the article. Could it be that the RAM fan works just like on the Wrangler? At this point I consulted a local mechanic for a fee. He had access of official RAM documentation. It didn't really explain things, but there was a wiring diagram. It confirmed the single relay, single voltage used for running the fan. However, the third wire was labeled to suggest the it tells the computer about the actual fan speed, rather than letting the computer tell the fan how fast to run. I would really like to understand whether the fan is supposed to run at more than one speed, and how this is done.

It seems that I am not the only one interested in better cooling. We all drool about horsepower and other specifications when we buy a vehicle. Why is there no numeric measure of cooling capacities among commonly listed spec's?
Hi Erik,
yeah the mysteries on what parameters are used and how the systems integrate is a bit frustrating. I have not gone "hog wild" on researching and experimenting but I think I can help with a couple of your questions.
AGS = "active grill shutters". There are shutters in front of your radiator ( behind the grill ) that open and close to control air flow into the A/C confessor / transmission cooler and radiator. It is a fuel mileage thing. What parameters are used to open and close them seems to be uncertain. I would imagine that thee is some temperature set point but do not know what that is. Some say they open whenever the A/C is turned on. I have also read that they possibly open when tow/haul is engaged. If you delete these entirely you will get a check engine light because of the mechanism on the activating motor that senses the position of the shutters. There are devices to defeat this however, the easiest and most cost effective way is to leave the top shutters installed and leave the bottom shutters installed. They are installed in pairs, left and right. This keeps the stop on the motor mechanism functioning as designed. Tons of you tube stuff on this. It is easily done ( take your time removing the grill ) and is quite effective at lowering both coolant Temps and engine oil temps. I did this and have near identical results to what 15 handicap achieved.
Engine oil cooling is a fluid to fluid heat exchanger that is part of your oil filter assembly. You cannot see it as it sits below the intake. Because oil is cooled by engine coolant as an engineer I am sure you can see the correlation between engine coolant Temp. and engine oil Temp. Very often my oil temp and coolant temp are identical. Usually my oil temp will be about 6-8 degrees cooler than engine coolant temp.
The transmission as far as I know does not have an additional cooler installed on vehicles with a "tow package". The transmission oil cooler is a fluid to air heat exchange that occurs in a portion of the A/C condenser. I believe the transmission oil cooling takes place in the top portion. In other words that device that sits in front of your radiator is compartmentalized ( is that a word? LOL ) to perform two functions.
There is a ying / yang situation with the transmission temperature control. There is a heater, ( yes you read that correctly ) on the side of the transmission. A transmission Temp. control unit . Like the oil cooler this heater is a fluid to fluid heat exchanger. Hot engine coolant is run through one side of the device and heat is exchanged to transmission fluid. This facilitates faster warm up of transmission fluid as well as maintenance of a predetermined Transmission fluid temp as dictated by a thermostat in this " Transmission Temp. control unit". No matter what you do with coolant thermostats or Active grill shutter delete the transmission temp will not be effectively made cooler. The thermostat in the transmission Temp. control unit functions independently in such a way as it will divert tranmission fluid away from the cooling circuit and direct it to the heating circuit until the set Temp. is achieved and maintained. There are a couple of ways to defeat this and there are more than one thread on the forum where it is discussed.
In regards to the engine coolant fan, seems like I run across comments from the Hemi owners in regards to switching their fan system over to the electric Pentastar system. Must be a reason for that.
Hope this helps with some of your questions.

Edit: Just noticed that you have a 2014 year RAM. I honestly do not know how much if any of the information above applies to your model year. My RAM is a 2017
 
Last edited:

SitKneelBend

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Posts
9,065
Reaction score
4,746
Location
St. Louis
Ram Year
2014
Engine
3.6 Pentastar
To add on, I believe the primary function of the AGS is to improve aerodynamics at speed. They should be closed at highway speeds, open when stopped and at some intermediate position between the two aforementioned conditions...
 

PoMansRam

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Posts
2,089
Reaction score
2,549
Location
East Aurora NY
Ram Year
2019
Engine
Hemi
@ Different Drummer, sorry if I missed it, but one component in the Ram 1500 pentastar cooling scheme I didn't see you mention is the electronic coolant 3-way valve that is mounted inline on the lower rad hose. All pentastar Rams have this. The hemis did too up until about 2018. It diverts coolant flow to either the ATF fluid heater (mounted on the transmission) or to the heater core for cabin heat, or any combo of the two I believe.

I'm not positive on the Rams, but ATF cooling is generally built into the A/C condensor on Chrysler/Ram/Jeep vehciles. It's usually the top set of rows is for ATF, the rest is for the liquid gold refrigerant.
 

15 Handicap

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Posts
248
Reaction score
157
Location
Central Florida
Ram Year
2018
Engine
Blue Streak Pearl Coat 3.6
To add on, I believe the primary function of the AGS is to improve aerodynamics at speed. They should be closed at highway speeds, open when stopped and at some intermediate position between the two aforementioned conditions...
So do you want higher temps for 1-2 mpg or do you want an engine that will last longer? your choice.
 

engineering

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Posts
141
Reaction score
203
Location
CA
Ram Year
2015
Engine
V6 3.6L
The Pentastar is all about efficiency and the engineers leverage higher operating temps to get there. That, in part, explains the requirement for full synthetic oil.

I don't know the exact specs on the thermostat, but I believe it is well north of 200F.

My pentastar is now supercharged and I am adding a secondary radiator which is requiring me to learn more about the stock cooling system. To my surprise, the stock setup is effective with a supercharger and towing until it is really pushed to the limit.....
Fully loaded, uphill, hot outside air, and high altitude - it will then overheat.
 

SitKneelBend

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Posts
9,065
Reaction score
4,746
Location
St. Louis
Ram Year
2014
Engine
3.6 Pentastar
The Pentastar is all about efficiency and the engineers leverage higher operating temps to get there. That, in part, explains the requirement for full synthetic oil.

I don't know the exact specs on the thermostat, but I believe it is well north of 200F.

My pentastar is now supercharged and I am adding a secondary radiator which is requiring me to learn more about the stock cooling system. To my surprise, the stock setup is effective with a supercharger and towing until it is really pushed to the limit.....
Fully loaded, uphill, hot outside air, and high altitude - it will then overheat.
Supercharged?! Pictures or it didn't happen...
 
Top