Pinging/detonation, anyone try a colder plug?

[RamDiver]

Wouldn't pulling a plug or two and inspecting them, provide good information?
Verify the gap and residue.

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[ramffml]

It was previously mentioned already, but I'd start with checking plug gap and decreasing it like suggested and note the change.

Wouldn't pulling a plug or two and inspecting them, provide good information?
Verify the gap and residue.

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These are things I'm not able to do myself. But again, as mentioned before this truck has done it from day 1, I bought it new.

 

[RamDiver]

These are things I'm not able to do myself. But again, as mentioned before this truck has done it from day 1, I bought it new.

Unless you can verify the gap with your own eyes or a very trusted mechanic, that remains an unknown and pertinent variable. That's got to be the most important check for any pre-ignition-type concerns, besides fuel octane level.

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[ThunderMug95]

i have run the 93 from the same station, Sheetz, up until a month ago when they closed for remodel. I switched then to Sam's Club 93 and my truck all but puked its guts out… knock, ping, noisy so I dumped in a can of VP Octanium and it helped once it did its thing in the tank. My point is not all gas is equal.
My tuner had told me previous to stick with the fuel he had data from because it was logging great.

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

Sheets has very consistent gasoline. Octane level and ethanol levels are very stable and do not vary much. If it says 10% ethanol it is not 15 or 20 its 10 or less.

Good product that is competitive in price

 

[ramffml]

Which makes me wonder, is it possible to get a custom tune that works amazing on all 87 octane fuel, possibly at the expense of a bit of top end hp/torque? I don't care about eeking every last bit out of an engine, I'd much rather just be able to throw in the cheap gas and be on my way without worrying about where I fill up. I don't use the same station every time, that's not just convenient and also impossible when I'm towing as you are away from home and never know where you end up.

 

[RamDiver]

Which makes me wonder, is it possible to get a custom tune that works amazing on all 87 octane fuel, possibly at the expense of a bit of top end hp/torque? I don't care about eeking every last bit out of an engine, I'd much rather just be able to throw in the cheap gas and be on my way without worrying about where I fill up. I don't use the same station every time, that's not just convenient and also impossible when I'm towing as you are away from home and never know where you end up.

Have you tried adding a splash of octane booster, especially during these towing adventures?

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[JHoward]

Fwiw, you have been given good advice.

If your HEMI has/is doing fine with these engine noises, then turn up the volume on the radio so that it masks that, lol.

Imo, do an engine tune to whatever fuel set up your going to mainly use and that may be just what does the trick, Idk.

 

[ramffml]

Have you tried adding a splash of octane booster, especially during these towing adventures?

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No I haven't. I normally drive with 89 octane, and then before a trip I'll have at least one tank of 91 run through and then I tow with 91. I figured the engine is designed with 87 and tuned optimally for 89, putting 91 in should be a pretty big safe guard against having too little.

However I can try that next time I'm out.

I do a lot of biking and one stretch puts me near city traffic for a bit. I hear pinging, a lot. Especially little turbos, but I hear it from other 5.7's (chargers and trucks) and last week I just happened to hear a 5.0 f150 doing it too. When I hear it in other cars like that it's usally off the line from a stoplight I'm propped up against, or sometimes when a car accelerates out of a corner.

The f150 was a nice surprise (lol) as it made me feel better about my own truck.

That's why I don't think there is anything mechanically wrong. I had a friend in my truck last month and he couldn't even hear it, he just didn't know what to listen for.

I think my first step will be to start data logging so that I can separate what I think I hear, from what is actually going on. I just read this thread this morning and it seems that one can actually record not just that it's pinging, but also the "strength" of the ping if that makes sense.

And if I tow next before getting this sorted I'll definitely try octane booster. But oddly enough it's been 2 weeks since I came back home and back to 89 and my truck seems to like that better than the 91? I am so confused.

 

[ramffml]

Fwiw, you have been given good advice.

If your HEMI has/is doing fine with these engine noises, then turn up the volume on the radio so that it masks that, lol.

Imo, do an engine tune to whatever fuel set up your going to mainly use and that may be just what does the trick, Idk.

I've never been a radio guy lol, I doubt my speakers have more than 2 hours of life on them in 4 years of ownership, and the bulk of that is the smart little lady in my truck telling me to "turn left in 50 meters".

 

[BuschLatte420]

Something seems off here, I run 89 and never have issues, all top tier fuel. My friend runs 87 in his hemi from where ever he chooses is cheapest and tows heavy and never has issues either. Manual states 89 is preferred but 87 is acceptable. Any more seems like a waste unless tuned to do so.

 

[HemiSam]

Not all same octane rated fuels are equal, but my bet is the lower octane fuel is causing some mild predestination (i.e. pinging) when you add the load from the tow (i.e. put more stress on the engine). Higher octane or a richer tune / calibration should address that issue.

It's really not a big deal, but to verify data logging the knock (i.e. pinging) via short-term and long-term knock retard data points, as one point i'd look at in the log, is the best way to verify. At that point you largely have what it takes for a custom calibration...if you are so inclined.

Best of luck.

HS

 

[Tominator223]

Try plugs 1st, then fuel change. It may just be bad batch of plugs. They manufacture millions of em

 

[Dusty]

It was previously mentioned already, but I'd start with checking plug gap and decreasing it like suggested and note the change.

If decreasing the spark plug gap makes any difference at all, it'll be worse.

The gap at the spark plug determines the voltage necessary to jump the gap. Decrease the gap and the spark will jump sooner with a lower coil rise time, advancing the ignition of fuel.

In reality the difference would likely be in the microsecond range and may not have any practical effect at all, especially in systems that detect ignition and back off timing to compensate.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 92308 miles.

 

[Dusty]

When I'm towing in the summer I get what I consider excessive pinging. Not enough for the dealer to do anything about it (the manual says something like "a small amount of pinging is normal"), but more than I want.

I've noticed that it gets worse the hotter the engine is. I've gone on a bit of journey as of late to get my temps down, did the AGS delete, 180 thermostat, even a remote oil filter relocation kit to get more air flow over the filter and more hose area. I'm sure that all adds up and helps, my temps are definitely cooler now. But I still get ping, even unloaded, on a hot day.

According to motortrend, one way to possibly fix this is to try a colder spark plug. Has anyone tried this successfully?

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/engine-detonation-knock-explained/

Colder plugs COULD work if the problem is being caused by heat retention in the cylinder head. A colder plug will sink heat away to the cylinder head and transfer it to the cooling system.

What I find interesting is your indication that you experience pinging when the engine is not under load. Does this occur on cool days as well?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 92308 miles.

 

[ramffml]

Colder plugs COULD work if the problem is being caused by heat retention in the cylinder head. A colder plug will sink heat away to the cylinder head and transfer it to the cooling system.

What I find interesting is your indication that you experience pinging when the engine is not under load. Does this occur on cool days as well?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 92308 miles.

The ambiant temps don't really seem to matter, mainly it seems to be engine temps. The hotter the engine the more it pings. I've noticed it was better in the winter time, but cold air keeps the engine temps in check as well. On a hot summer day, I won't really notice pinging until the engine gets about 2/3's operating temp or higher. On a cold start on a hot summer day, I won't notice anything.

Generally the pinging is worse while towing; this makes sense to me as the engine is hotter and working harder than when it's unloaded.

 

[Dusty]

The ambiant temps don't really seem to matter, mainly it seems to be engine temps. The hotter the engine the more it pings. I've noticed it was better in the winter time, but cold air keeps the engine temps in check as well. On a hot summer day, I won't really notice pinging until the engine gets about 2/3's operating temp or higher. On a cold start on a hot summer day, I won't notice anything.

Generally the pinging is worse while towing; this makes sense to me as the engine is hotter and working harder than when it's unloaded.

For Ram 5.7s of any vintage, this is not a common solitary symptom.

If this is a symptom that has been present since day one, have you ever asked your dealer to address this and what, if anything, did they do?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 92308 miles.

 

[ramffml]

For Ram 5.7s of any vintage, this is not a common solitary symptom.

It really is though. As I mentioned a few posts back, I do a lot of cycling and have the opportunity to hear cars as they go by me. If you listen for it, it's there in a lot of cars/trucks. I've heard in all kinds of 5.7 chargers/rams/jeeps. Not every one, no doubt fuel and octane and temps and humidity etc all play roles.

If this is a symptom that has been present since day one, have you ever asked your dealer to address this and what, if anything, did they do?

My dealer is useless. This is also typical of FCA dealers, unless there are rods pushing through the block or codes getting thrown they are simply incapable of fixing anything: "Can't reproduce" or "working as designed" or "small amounts of ping is normal" (says that right in the manual).

 

[Mister Luck]

Altitude can play a role in combustion ignition, temp sensors both air and coolant. Battery voltage and charging need to be in sync in order not to throw the sensors off.

Do you think elevation plays a role ?
Is your secondary fan kicking in and what temp , or only when the hvac is on ?
How much are you towing plus the where ?
above 3000 ft
(would be my primary concern)

Others that have given advice on the occasional fuel treatment
is a good idea.
Colder plugs burn faster and hotter at ignition but as mentioned before draw the heat away from the combustion chamber up their insulator into the cylinder head.



colder plug thread

 

[ramffml]

Altitude can play a role in combustion ignition, temp sensors both air and coolant. Battery voltage and charging need to be in sync in order not to throw the sensors off.

Do you think elevation plays a role ?
Is your secondary fan kicking in and what temp , or only when the hvac is on ?
How much are you towing plus the where ?
above 3000 ft
(would be my primary concern)

Others that have given advice on the occasional fuel treatment
is a good idea.
Colder plugs burn faster and hotter at ignition but as mentioned before draw the heat away from the combustion chamber up their insulator into the cylinder head.

View attachment 523003

colder plug thread

Since starting this thread I've done a lot of digging around on plugs for the hemi. Now I'm not so sure I want to mess with them. Lots of bad reports about CEL's and poor performance and one guy even toasting his hemi.

I did check out your thread on this, thanks for the link, but carbon deposits are not something I want to risk either since the vast majority of my driving is "like a grandma". The issue being, when I do finally get on it (in a hurry or towing) then I hear the pinging.

First step is to log it, I'm going to try and get some actual data before doing anything like swapping plugs or tuning.