PW Pulling a Camper

[ttusomeone]

I bought my PW at the end of 2019 (it's a 2019 model) without really intending to use it to pull anything. I bought it mainly for its looks and off road capabilities, although I definitely don't do any serious off roading and have yet to take it off road other than driving through some fields. Since purchasing it I've since done some towing (mainly pulling my dad's four-seater SXS and his older 17' camper). This weekend I bought a 35' camper so the whole family can go camping more comfortably. I had already installed air bags last year, so the PW didn't have any trouble pulling the camper. However, it slightly gave me the itch to upgrade to a Cummins. I'm only going to be pulling the camper at most once a month, and will only occasionally be taking trips of over a few hundred miles (the majority will be 80 miles or less). It's my daily driver, but my commute is short (less than 10 miles). I only give it a 10% chance I trade for a Cummins, but I'm coming to the collective wisdom of this group to either drop that to 0% or raise it higher.

 

[56PW17]

you didn’t buy it intending to tow. You ended up with a 35 foot camper.
You don’t intended on going more than 80 miles away now, but that will change also.
Enjoy the wagon but I bet you trade it for a diesel.

 

[Udy2554]

34 1/2’ Toyhauler! A bit over 11,000lbs with RZR and water etc! With bags and Equalizer WD, it tows fine! Except for the horrible gas mileage, I enjoy wheeling with it, towing with it, and just plain driving it!

 

[crash68]

Unless you got a larger/heavier trailer or start traveling a lot more miles, you'll lose a bunch of off road capability going to a Cummins. CTD trucks are horribly nose heavy(close to 1K lbs vs the Hemi) for going off road especially in squishy stuff.

 

[SeppW]

You could always buy a used dedicated diesel tow vehicle and keep the PW. Others will disagree, but IMO the PW wasn't built to tow (despite the tow package) or haul heavy payloads. Cannot beat a diesel torque wise, just a better tow vehicle. Of course it adds to increased cost to maintain a fleet of trucks, cars, and towed accoutrements.

I suspect that 35' GVW combined with the PW GVW has to be close, or may exceed, to the PW's GCWR.

 

[SkeeterBait]

I bought my PW at the end of 2019 (it's a 2019 model) without really intending to use it to pull anything. I bought it mainly for its looks and off road capabilities, although I definitely don't do any serious off roading and have yet to take it off road other than driving through some fields. Since purchasing it I've since done some towing (mainly pulling my dad's four-seater SXS and his older 17' camper). This weekend I bought a 35' camper so the whole family can go camping more comfortably. I had already installed air bags last year, so the PW didn't have any trouble pulling the camper. However, it slightly gave me the itch to upgrade to a Cummins. I'm only going to be pulling the camper at most once a month, and will only occasionally be taking trips of over a few hundred miles (the majority will be 80 miles or less). It's my daily driver, but my commute is short (less than 10 miles). I only give it a 10% chance I trade for a Cummins, but I'm coming to the collective wisdom of this group to either drop that to 0% or raise it higher.

View attachment 241745

I can tell you from my 35 years' of pulling three different 5th wheel travel trailers with several different trucks, that you will NEVER regret having a long-bed 2500 Cummins as your power source!!

 

[HDGoose]

For the few towing miles you do not 'need' another truck unless that one is over axle weights when loaded for camping. Perhaps you are looking for an excuse to buy another truck? Well okay then, bring on the CTD 3500!

 

[carverwagon]

I agree with the comments above....and It is a tough decision ! My 06 mega 5.9 TD is bullet proof and it still pulls like a freight train. PW also pulls no problem.I love my new 'to me' Power wagon. There is definitely more maintenance costs with a newer 6.7 ctd compared to my 5.9 though IMHO. Sorry ...I'm not being much help. My Diesel gets better MPG than the PW but not sure about newer 6.7. I am towing about 8200lbs.

 

[2003F350]

This is basically the exact same story I ended up with.

We HAD a 42' toy hauler and an '04 F350 dually, 6.0 Powerstroke. Loved that truck, bulletproofed, would burn all 6 tires if I wanted to.

Then we moved to the new house, and coupled with a couple injector failures I went truck shopping. We 'decided' we weren't going to camp anymore, so we were going to get rid of the toyhauler. I could have picked up a brand-new dually or the Power Wagon. We were selling the camper, so I went with the Wagon.

Fast forward 6 months, we wanted to go on vacation, wife didn't want to do a hotel. We looked into KOA kamping kabins, and when she saw the list of stuff we'd need to bring, she went camper shopping - I had to work so I told her to make sure they said it was half-ton towable because of the reduced capacities of the Wagon.

We ended up with a nice camper, but now we want to upgrade...so I am likely going to be trading in the Wagon soon, when I can find the truck I want.

Anybody want a '17 Wagon with 64k on the clock?

 

[ttusomeone]

Thanks for the replies so far. I don't think I'll ever hit the max towing capacity of the PW with what I've got. Mopar says the towing capacity of my 2019 is 10,350 lbs. The dry weight of the trailer is 7,688 and it has a max carrying capacity of 2,012. So I'd max out the weight on the trailer (9,700 lbs) before I hit the max towing capacity of the truck. Given that I have air bags as well, I think I'm okay weight wise. I was mainly wondering about reliability, gas mileage, and anything else I may consider. I also definitely realize it will take a lot of miles to make up the gas mileage difference when compared to the up front premium you pay for the diesel engine.

 

[2003F350]

Thanks for the replies so far. I don't think I'll ever hit the max towing capacity of the PW with what I've got. Mopar says the towing capacity of my 2019 is 10,350 lbs. The dry weight of the trailer is 7,688 and it has a max carrying capacity of 2,012. So I'd max out the weight on the trailer (9,700 lbs) before I hit the max towing capacity of the truck. Given that I have air bags as well, I think I'm okay weight wise. I was mainly wondering about reliability, gas mileage, and anything else I may consider. I also definitely realize it will take a lot of miles to make up the gas mileage difference when compared to the up front premium you pay for the diesel engine.

While it sounds like you won't have an issue, the big thing you have to remember is that you'll run out of PAYLOAD before you run out of towing capacity, especially with a camper.

Think of it like this:
Your tow rating is, in essence, an abstract number, chosen based on what your driveline can safely get moving and stop.
Your payload is how much weight you can add to the truck, driven by your suspension, the weight of the truck, and a somewhat arbitrary set of guidelines.
Your Gross Axle Weight Ratings are how much weight each axle can handle, driven by what axle is under the truck and your springs. These are CONCRETE numbers that you don't want to go over.

Here's where you will find your issues, and why a lot of guys on here will tell you the safest way to tow is to go get weighed as if you're ready for a trip: You HAVE to pay attention to not just the weight of the trailer, but how much tongue weight it has. And if you're using a WDH, then you need to look at how it is shifting the weight back to the trailer and back to the front axle of your truck. If that puts you over your GAWR for EITHER axle, then you are asking for some troubles. If it puts you over your payload, you *may* be okay.

It's also why you can pull a MUCH heavier boat than you can a camper - MOST (up to a certain point) boats have the weight primarily carried by their trailer axles, and have very little tongue weight. This means the weight your truck is seeing is relatively small.

But when it comes to a camper, a much larger percentage of the weight ends up on the tongue - and thus on your truck. It's why you can see a 8k GVW trailer advertised with almost 1k lbs of tongue weight, while an 8k boat on a trailer might only have 500 lbs of tongue weight.

Really all this is food for thought. If you're paying attention and realize that, as a PW, the truck has limits much lower than that of a standard 2500, then you'll likely be fine.

 

[carverwagon]

While it sounds like you won't have an issue, the big thing you have to remember is that you'll run out of PAYLOAD before you run out of towing capacity, especially with a camper.

Think of it like this:
Your tow rating is, in essence, an abstract number, chosen based on what your driveline can safely get moving and stop.
Your payload is how much weight you can add to the truck, driven by your suspension, the weight of the truck, and a somewhat arbitrary set of guidelines.
Your Gross Axle Weight Ratings are how much weight each axle can handle, driven by what axle is under the truck and your springs. These are CONCRETE numbers that you don't want to go over.

Here's where you will find your issues, and why a lot of guys on here will tell you the safest way to tow is to go get weighed as if you're ready for a trip: You HAVE to pay attention to not just the weight of the trailer, but how much tongue weight it has. And if you're using a WDH, then you need to look at how it is shifting the weight back to the trailer and back to the front axle of your truck. If that puts you over your GAWR for EITHER axle, then you are asking for some troubles. If it puts you over your payload, you *may* be okay.

It's also why you can pull a MUCH heavier boat than you can a camper - MOST (up to a certain point) boats have the weight primarily carried by their trailer axles, and have very little tongue weight. This means the weight your truck is seeing is relatively small.

But when it comes to a camper, a much larger percentage of the weight ends up on the tongue - and thus on your truck. It's why you can see a 8k GVW trailer advertised with almost 1k lbs of tongue weight, while an 8k boat on a trailer might only have 500 lbs of tongue weight.

Really all this is food for thought. If you're paying attention and realize that, as a PW, the truck has limits much lower than that of a standard 2500, then you'll likely be fine.

All good points and I will add one more ! At the end of it all...it still comes down the the axle bearings that really do the work and carry all the weight. It doesnt matter if springs and air bags are added it still requires the bearings to hold it all. Be nice to your bearings !!

 

[dhay13]

Yep, my 9000lb boat only has about 700lbs tongue weight but it tows great. Even with my 1500 it towed great. I may be closer to 800lbs now since I bought a bigger drop insert since last time I weighed it so that may have added 50lbs or so to the tongue weight

 

[SeppW]

Thanks for the replies so far. I don't think I'll ever hit the max towing capacity of the PW with what I've got. Mopar says the towing capacity of my 2019 is 10,350 lbs. The dry weight of the trailer is 7,688 and it has a max carrying capacity of 2,012. So I'd max out the weight on the trailer (9,700 lbs) before I hit the max towing capacity of the truck. Given that I have air bags as well, I think I'm okay weight wise. I was mainly wondering about reliability, gas mileage, and anything else I may consider. I also definitely realize it will take a lot of miles to make up the gas mileage difference when compared to the up front premium you pay for the diesel engine.

You have to figure it all in. You say trailer GTW is 9700 lb. Let's assume your Wagon's GVW is 8510 lb. GTW+GVW= 18210 lb. You've theoretically already exceeded the GCWR of 17,500 lb by 710 lb. Is that an problem, maybe, but you'll need to reduce/redistribute weight somewhere to get under or at the GCWR. Plus the CL 5 hitch has limitations as well, depending if using a WDH or not and tongue weight. All the bags are doing is keeping the TW from loading down your rear axle and is likely not shifting weight to front axle. In fact, some "towing experts" say bags are suitable for managing payload in truck. WDH ought to be used for trailers. I'm not bagged, but do use a WDH for a 23 ft'r with a GTW of 6200 lb, well under my GCWR of 17500 lb.

All this assumes your MY19 GCWR is 17,500. It could very well be higher or lower. Keeping within ratings keeps you out of trouble if the worst happens. The lawyers will be looking for anything to find liability, like knowingly towing when the GCWR has been exceeded.

 

[ttusomeone]

You have to figure it all in. You say trailer GTW is 9700 lb. Let's assume your Wagon's GVW is 8510 lb. GTW+GVW= 18210 lb. You've theoretically already exceeded the GCWR of 17,500 lb by 710 lb. Is that an problem, maybe, but you'll need to reduce/redistribute weight somewhere to get under or at the GCWR. Plus the CL 5 hitch has limitations as well, depending if using a WDH or not and tongue weight. All the bags are doing is keeping the TW from loading down your rear axle and is likely not shifting weight to front axle. In fact, some "towing experts" say bags are suitable for managing payload in truck. WDH ought to be used for trailers. I'm not bagged, but do use a WDH for a 23 ft'r with a GTW of 6200 lb, well under my GCWR of 17500 lb.

All this assumes your MY19 GCWR is 17,500. It could very well be higher or lower. Keeping within ratings keeps you out of trouble if the worst happens. The lawyers will be looking for anything to find liability, like knowingly towing when the GCWR has been exceeded.

Thanks for the info. I do have a WDH (assuming you mean weight distribution hitch) and anti-sway bar on it in addition to the air bags. I was able to find this online regarding the towing capacity of the 2019: "The Power Wagon claims a base weight of 6,907 pounds, payload of 1,660 pounds, GVWR of 8,565 pounds, top trailer weight of 10,620 pounds and a gross combined weight rating (truck, trailer and everything in them) of 18,000 pounds."

So if I max out the weight capacity of the trailer, I'd be a couple hundred pounds over the GCWR. I feel it's highly unlikely I'll ever be adding ~2000lbs of gear to the trailer/truck. I'll just have to make sure all the tanks are empty before traveling, which I planned to do anyway (that would be ~1250lbs if all the fresh/gray/black water tanks were full).

 

[SeppW]

Thanks for the info. I do have a WDH (assuming you mean weight distribution hitch) and anti-sway bar on it in addition to the air bags. I was able to find this online regarding the towing capacity of the 2019: "The Power Wagon claims a base weight of 6,907 pounds, payload of 1,660 pounds, GVWR of 8,565 pounds, top trailer weight of 10,620 pounds and a gross combined weight rating (truck, trailer and everything in them) of 18,000 pounds."

So if I max out the weight capacity of the trailer, I'd be a couple hundred pounds over the GCWR. I feel it's highly unlikely I'll ever be adding ~2000lbs of gear to the trailer/truck. I'll just have to make sure all the tanks are empty before traveling, which I planned to do anyway (that would be ~1250lbs if all the fresh/gray/black water tanks were full).

Sounds like a plan. One thing I have found is all Wagons are equal, but some are more equal than others. Another thread elsewhere on forum, had several Wagons of different GVWs. I have a MY16 Tradesman with PW package, and the payload for it is only 1305.52 lb and max tow is 10,295.52 lb. Another guy said his payload was 14 or 15 hundred. Maybe because the Ramboxes reduce the payload, beats me. Couldn't be be the trim level since Tradesman is barebones.

 

[ZookaTx]

The rear axle under the PW is the same as under the 2500 gasser. But the springs are softer, there is a small factory lift, and the stock tires are D rated, not E. All of this is why the PW rides so much smoother, but is not rated to take as much trailer weight. About 10,000 for the PW, and 17,500 for the gasser 3/4 ton. The engine and transmission are the same as a gasser 3/4 ton; the 4:10s are the same; the axle bearings are the same. I bought my '19 new in early 2020, then several months later we decided to move 1400 miles to a different state; this involved 5 trips towing a 16x7x7 foot cargo trailer, max weight 7,000 lbs, at 2800 miles per round trip. In a strong headwind I would get 6 mpg, loaded or unloaded, at 80. 16mpg if a tailwind. Last trip in October cost $1400 in fuel alone. The PW is my favorite truck, and I have owned a 7.3 Ford and a 5.9 2001 Cummins with the camper package and 6 speed. It does not tow like the diesels; but it tows vastly better than the 2000 Dodge 1500 with the 360 I traded to get the Cummins.