Ram computer update glitch

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jomarona

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Driving a 2021 1500 hemi 5.7 Ram. 3 to 4 weeks ago stop/start quit working and truck started missing, eventually battery drain started. Dealer service said all was caused because battery only had 80% charge. Showed no misfire. Replaced battery last week and immediately battery started draining. Engine missing. Now, dealer service notified that a Chrysler computer update changed my software to California code and my truck will only run on 100% gas to CA code. There is no fix currently. They will provide a car to drive but you can't do construction work out of a car or pull A bass boat. How hard can it be to write a code to fix this truck and 9 others currently sitting at this dealership? How extensive is this problem?
 

Jeepwalker

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Sorry to hear about your truck situation. That kind of sux. I don't have an answer, other than ..did they actually investigate the battery discharge situation? Or did they just assume and tell you over the phone that's what the problem is likely?

There could be lots of causes for a battery discharge. Anything from debris in the trailer light socket, to a bad switch, or broken/shorted wire...or even moisture somewhere. There are some good Y/T videos how to quickly zero in on shorts or discharges basically by pulling one fuse at the time. In your case you could probably start with the Computer module fuse first. Maybe that IS your truck's problem, maybe not??
 
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Jeepwalker

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How long could it take to re-write new code? Um... anywhere from weeks to never. You're talking a global corporation here. They probably have a special software 'Team' somewhere ...might not even be in the U.S. ..probably India, ...which they write code for all vehicles present and in the pipeline. So... ya need to fill out a request form to get an 'estimate' for the labor hours and costs for the 'fix' from the software team, Then submit the paperwork along with a justification to management to see if you can 'sell it' & get it approved. Oh wait, that boss is on vacation for 2 weeks. It could fall dead right there. Hopefully not. If approved, send the project back to the software team and get in a cue. Chances are the team is working on lots of other 'fixes' or new product software. They've experienced budget cuts so it takes longer...lol.

If the person in charge of the update is really aggressive, or an effective employee (like maybe 15% really are), Billy Bob in Detroit might call his buddy who runs the software team directly and goes something like, "Hey, Rajj, how's it going? How are the kids? Hey I got this discharging issue that's kind of critical. Lots of riled-up truck owners and dealers all over my back-side on this one. ...I know you guys are up to your eyeballs in alligators, ...but do you think there's any way to slide this project in a little faster?" Rajj likes Billy Bob because they see eye-to eye. They shared common company-bashing over drinks at a training event a few years ago. The usual things: Overworked, Under-appreciated, Not enough pay, Boss is a real jerk, Will our team get moved somewhere else? etc. Rajj agrees with Billy Bob this is important & instructs his guys to get on it right away, and his team gets the software re-programming done fast. Rajj calls Billy-Bob back, "Hey, you owe me some of that good ole Michigan Cheese for this one! We got your 'fix' done, I'll shoot it over to you this afternoon buddy!! Tell Frank over there he's still a jerk and owes me $20 for that card game I whooped his a$$ on! LOL". This is where relationships matter.

OTOH, If you have a new dufus handling the job in Detroit, who's more worried about the latest CBD products or the high potency THC gummies his buddies are IM-ing him they're going to all use up tonight ...and he's obsessed with the latest posts on his online gaming forums, ...yer in trouble. He might not be the guy who'll ever get that new programming plane off the ground, so to speak. Everyone knows he's a dud and should have been cut-loose 3 years ago, but his boss Melinda has 3 teenage girls herself and is sympathetic to his psychological needs. He ain't going nowhere. He just needs the right environment. He might even get promoted over hungrier, more competent workers. He'll spend 4 days sending off 15 emails when one 5 minute phone call would have produced immediate results. So, it could sit there dormant till enough dealers squawk loud enough it gets put on someone else's desk. Even then it might just sit in line till 'whenever'.

Once the code actually gets re-written, then the protocol is to probably send the code off to the 'testing team' to try out and ensure it works. That might be virtual, or an actual test truck -- which again, get in line..."we've got other things we're working on". "Dave over there has been on my rear for weeks with a red-hot-poker to finish this long-term testing for a 2026 prototype ...once we get that finished...." An effective employee will pick up the phone and talk to someone (GASP!!) get it moved front and center. Cause it's critical. But these days most employees won't do that. They'll spend 2 weeks shooting emails all over the place with little effect that get lost into nowhere land. Sometimes ya fix one issue and these computer nerds completely overlook the obvious and create a new problem that any normal person with half a brain would have spotted and resolved before sending the new code out in the first place. Some new girl who's 3 months out of an internship with a bank IT department, who has no clue debugging automotive code (sorry ladies ...could be a guy too). ....and now the whole process has to start over again to get re-fixed.

It's not like a small company or in the old corporate days where you could walk down the hallway to the programming team, knock on Jim-Bob's door, BS for 2 minutes about his latest fishing or hunting trip, tell him what you need, he hands your request to his low-language-and-social-skills programming guy there ....and you continue on with the hunting/fishing stories while the programmer taps away at the computer. Then he's done. Jim-Bob's been through the drill a few times and asks his computer guy if he double-checked for this or that ...and the other...just to make sure there weren't any other problems he'll get blamed for. The programmer looked it over again, ...and after reassurances, he hands you back the 5 1/4" floppy with the new 'fixed' code. You can take it to the testing guy on floor 2 before lunch, and he finishes the testing by Fri, exactly when he promised he'd have it done. The testing guy's an old-timer who knows his crap and knows it's right when it leaves his dept. Then it goes out to the dealers. :rotflmao:

Obviously the above is humorous conjecture. But having worked at a global corporation that's how it kinda works. Eventually things get done. Hopefully it's critical enough to get finished soon. But DO investigate other possible 'discharges' in case it's something else.
 
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turkeybird56

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Sorry to hear about your truck situation. That kind of sux. I don't have an answer, other than ..did they actually investigate the battery discharge situation? Or did they just assume and tell you over the phone that's what the problem is likely?

There could be lots of causes for a battery discharge. Anything from debris in the trailer light socket, to a bad switch, or broken/shorted wire...or even moisture somewhere. There are some good Y/T videos how to quickly zero in on shorts or discharges basically by pulling one fuse at the time. In your case you could probably start with the Computer module fuse first. Maybe that IS your truck's problem, maybe not??
Something there awful screwy about this diagnosis. Why can't they just reflash the ECU??? hmmmmmmmm. Put in another ECU and program to truck. Hmmmm. Makes me happy I get no OTA's.
 

turkeybird56

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Sorry to hear about your truck situation. That kind of sux. I don't have an answer, other than ..did they actually investigate the battery discharge situation? Or did they just assume and tell you over the phone that's what the problem is likely?

There could be lots of causes for a battery discharge. Anything from debris in the trailer light socket, to a bad switch, or broken/shorted wire...or even moisture somewhere. There are some good Y/T videos how to quickly zero in on shorts or discharges basically by pulling one fuse at the time. In your case you could probably start with the Computer module fuse first. Maybe that IS your truck's problem, maybe not??
Is your truck straight VVt or E Torque? Which battery? 12V or 48V ? hmmmm.
 

Daw14

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Driving a 2021 1500 hemi 5.7 Ram. 3 to 4 weeks ago stop/start quit working and truck started missing, eventually battery drain started. Dealer service said all was caused because battery only had 80% charge. Showed no misfire. Replaced battery last week and immediately battery started draining. Engine missing. Now, dealer service notified that a Chrysler computer update changed my software to California code and my truck will only run on 100% gas to CA code. There is no fix currently. They will provide a car to drive but you can't do construction work out of a car or pull A bass boat. How hard can it be to write a code to fix this truck and 9 others currently sitting at this dealership? How extensive is this problem?
If it’s that horrible lemon law it before time runs out. Cut your loses now.
 

chri5k

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What the dealer is saying doesn’t make sense. So if you buy a CA truck you can only drive with CA compliant gas? What if you move to a different state? Have sell that truck and buy a new one? What about a cross country trip? Have to have a giant extra fuel tank with enough CA gas for the whole trip?

I would call BS on the dealer’s explanation.

Sounds more like someone is screwing up software updates and the dealer has $500k+ worth of customer vehicles inop and they are trying to figure a way out without losing their shirt.
 
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Jeepwalker

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My guess, is, if true, the discharge 'could' be an unintended byproduct of a programming issue (fixed one issue/created another) that was applied to the non-CA emission software. That happens a lot on tech software 'fixes' in general. Used to deal with that in my former work life. Just conjecture.

But I would be pulling out the TIPM fuse (and other module fuses) and test for a discharge before/after. Just to see.
 

06 Dodge

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Driving a 2021 1500 hemi 5.7 Ram. 3 to 4 weeks ago stop/start quit working and truck started missing, eventually battery drain started. Dealer service said all was caused because battery only had 80% charge. Showed no misfire. Replaced battery last week and immediately battery started draining. Engine missing. Now, dealer service notified that a Chrysler computer update changed my software to California code and my truck will only run on 100% gas to CA code. There is no fix currently. They will provide a car to drive but you can't do construction work out of a car or pull A bass boat. How hard can it be to write a code to fix this truck and 9 others currently sitting at this dealership? How extensive is this problem?
I call BS :poop: I never have heard of gas that is or can be coded, not sure how one could code gasoline...
 

Jeepwalker

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CA vehicles often have different emission requirements/software. That's been the case for years. IDK about the Ram these days. The OP might have heard "Gas...xyz", who knows? People sometimes hear a fraction of what's been said sometimes. Just ask my wife :D
 

GTyankee

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I would not be surprised if there was an OTA that was poorly thought out.

The Over The Air downloads really mess things up, more often than not.
Lots of radios were made into bricks, after a OTA was sent by FCA
 
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Dusty

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Something there awful screwy about this diagnosis. Why can't they just reflash the ECU??? hmmmmmmmm. Put in another ECU and program to truck. Hmmmm. Makes me happy I get no OTA's.
When a software patch has been installed, it cannot be uninstalled. A new patch has to be written to override the error from the previous software installation.

Sometimes it takes time to discover the error and how it executes itself before a remedy can be developed.

Regards,
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I call BS :poop: I never have heard of gas that is or can be coded, not sure how one could code gasoline...
Reminds me of the anti piracy "you wouldn't download a car" sketch they used to show before movies. But seriously, what is "California compliant gasoline"? I thought they required oxygenating fuels which is usually ethanol blend, and sold everywhere. Or am I way off base with California's BS?
 

Marshall

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I am in Canada , so I wonder is Cal gas methane collected from left wing farts?
We do have some of that up here , sorry to say.
This sounds really strange to me, remember the point system and coils back in the stone age when we just fixed stuff with a screw driver and a hammer, and for real bad stuff, the hay wire fix, before duck tape came out.

A ps, unrelated to Ram, but a new Swiss car was bought, 2 months later winter came, Car had no heat in the heater, not good in Canada winter. Turned out computer would not turn on the heater, so a flat deck came down from the dealer, 300miles away, it was a few weeks before it was brought back. Lady said last time he is buying a car from out of town.
 
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Vgbu56

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jomarona

So do I understand this right, I buy a CA ram and then I'm not able to drive it out of state because it's program is not compatible with other states gasoline?
 

Jeepwalker

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Pretty sure the OP didn't hear something quite 'right' when the service mgr was explaining it.. or his explanation of it wasn't quite clear. My guess is there are multiple versions of Ram software: CA-emissions tune software ...which would have the Cal-ID & CVN (see below), among other things. And a non CA software that is probably used in the rest of the country. Most likely the glitch exists in the NON-CA version of the software ...so the dealer was advised (my guess) to, for now, "temporarily" install the CA vehicle software since it is (I'm speculating) ...glitch-free. I doubt it has much to do with the fuel or even the way the pickup runs. More to do with the testing process I'm speculating. Which will have no bearing on the OP's truck, for now (I'm speculating). There are a lot of cities around the country which run different fuel blends in different seasons and modern vehicles have been designed to 'figure it out' for many years, ...as fuel blends change.

From a CA emissions site:
"Testing for compliance involves plugging into the car's ECU and checking for two pieces of data: The Calibration Identification, or Cal ID, and the Calibration Verification Number, CVN. The Cal ID indicates which version of the software the car is running, similar to the iOS number in your iPhone. The CVN is calculated based on how the car runs, using parameters studied by the ECU, with the number changing when the software is adjusted.

California's new test looks at the CVN and Cal ID figures in the ECU’s code to determine if anything is out of place. (This suggests that certain "piggyback" devices could skirt the test if they're not detected visually, as these inline tuners don't change the Cal ID or CVN.) Any aftermarket computer device, whether it's an ECU or an inline tuner, is required to carry an Executive Order number, or EO, that indicates it's been approved by CARB."
 
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