Synthetic Oil

[chrisbh17]

If PUP has lower wear numbers why pay more for redline? Is there some other benefit of redline?

High in moly which may (or may not) contribute to less wear, especially in "low flow" conditions like at idle RPM.

Also cleans VERY well which may (or may not) contribute to more oil getting where it needs to go, instead of being blocked by dirt or sludge.

I used PUP 5-20 (and 5-30) in my Hemi, once, and did not like how the engine sounded....quite disappointed, actually, because you would figure "the best Pennzoil has to offer" would do better, at least in my case.

 

[vdemarco]

What is crazy is these engines can endure a lot of hours and miles. I have had two myself. My Dad has has had three. All Ram 1500’s except one Durango I had. None of them have had or do have engine issues to my knowledge. We always use synthetic oil and don’t typically exceed 10,000 miles per change. Two of the trucks we sold and don’t know how far they made it. The Durango was at around 150 when I traded it in for the Ram. That Ram has close to 200k today. My Dads Ram also an 09 has close to 200k as well. I thought these engines were pretty much these same design from around 03 to current except addition of MDS and VVT. I personally turned off MDS but my Dad has not. Has not seemed to matter. I know they can last when worked as we both have worked ours but we both have idled a lot too living in North Dakota and not parking in a garage. I don’t think idling kills them even though that would make sense. I’ll get the idle time and mileage of my old Ram as my buddy still has it.

THis is the reason i call ******** on Tony's analysis. My wifes 2011 Durango, has 80,000 miles on it. I have used Mobile 1 since after the dealer finished the first 2 years of oil changes. I have put in either 5w20 or 5w30 all of the time.

THe durango gets driven pretty much all in town, dropping off kids the grocery store, stopping at lights. Tons and tons of idling.

Also didn't this ticking generally start with the 09?? the engine as far as i can tell too, was the same except in 09 they added MDS.


Okay a question about all of this (Maybe i am wrong, will be the first to admit that)

is this affecting primarily the 2011 engine?

 

[tjfdesmo]

If PUP has lower wear numbers why pay more for redline? Is there some other benefit of redline?

Because some Hemis, like my old 6.4, had startup clatter, and hot tick with PUP.

 

[Burla]

If PUP has lower wear numbers why pay more for redline? Is there some other benefit of redline?

I like PUP for the hemi, especially some 0w40 for the moly content. Redline does have more additives that can stick to metal in perpendicular force, which if you believe tony's video is a huge issue with the hemi.

 

[16RamHemi]

I agree, cold starts have have a good amount of oil pressure and on really cold mornings my truck will sit at 1200rpm for a good 3+ mins before idling down to 1000. Not sure if that's my tuning or not tho.

I've never heard anything but piston slap on my 5.7 during an extremely cold start while running RL. I'm assuming it's due to the higher oil psi and higher rpms?

my truck was noisy even into spring with warmer temps. Not sure if it has any sort of relationship or not, but this is also toward the end of my oci. But my uoa shows lots of protection left. so i have no idea. This all seemed new to me this winter. i ran 5w30 last winter but to not recal it being so noisy at start up. but....tbh, i remote started my truck a lot so i never heard the truck until i went out, and that was at least a few minutes of idle time. so who knows.....maybe it was noisy then. i just do not ever recall it.....Now with fresh oil i hear very little start up chatter. sounds much better (besides that noise i have heard twice referenced earlier).

 

[16RamHemi]

so mines around 18%. so 4% less than @14Tradesman. So i guess we would have to look further at hot idle vs cold idle, which is impossible to know.

 

[tjfdesmo]

Lots of idle time. I just broke 400 hrs on my CTD, and there are 14 idle hrs, and the truck had 2 idle hours on it when I took delivery.

 

[14Tradesman]

So how concerning is the 105 ppm of iron in my UOA?


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[Burla]

So how concerning is the 105 ppm of iron in my UOA?

Just a guess, that iron could be from the lifter cavity, which likely wouldn't be that bad of deal. What I don't know is what metal is in cam lob, and roller. That is what you need to find out, and you need to chnage your own oil and look for shavings. Just iron by itself isn't a huge deal because this is a hemi and they are known for heavy iron and copper wear.

I can't remember every case, is your truck still ticking?

 

[Burla]

So how concerning is the 105 ppm of iron in my UOA?

Just a guess, that iron could be from the lifter cavity, which likely wouldn't be that bad of deal. What I don't know is what metal is in cam lob, and roller. That is what you need to find out, and you need to chnage your own oil and look for shavings. Just iron by itself isn't a huge deal because this is a hemi and they are known for heavy iron and copper wear.

I can't remember every case, is your truck still ticking?

My guess is chromium would be showing up if it was lob/roller.

 

[Hemi395]

So how concerning is the 105 ppm of iron in my UOA?


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Might want to reach out to Blackstone and see what their recommendations are. IMO It really depends on what it is after 2-3000 miles. If it's still high then, you might have something going on. If it's back down after 3000 miles I would run another one at 6000 miles make sure it's continuing on a downward trend.

I had a UOA that was flagged for high copper a few years/35k ago and it was a one time thing. Still don't know what it was and it's been normal on every UOA since.

Don't get too nervous yet. Think of it this way, the average person would have no idea there might be a potential problem.

 

[Burla]

I see your chromium was 0 first uoa, 1 second uoa, and 1 third uoa. You can see from blackstone thread 1 is normal for chromium, my guess is your roller and cam lob is fine t at this point.

 

[14Tradesman]

Just a guess, that iron could be from the lifter cavity, which likely wouldn't be that bad of deal. What I don't know is what metal is in cam lob, and roller. That is what you need to find out, and you need to chnage your own oil and look for shavings. Just iron by itself isn't a huge deal because this is a hemi and they are known for heavy iron and copper wear.

I can't remember every case, is your truck still ticking?

No, never really had a tick in the first place as far as I could tell. Here is a video I took a while back at operating temp. Tell me what you think, still sounds the same.

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[14Tradesman]

Might want to reach out to Blackstone and see what their recommendations are. IMO It really depends on what it is after 2-3000 miles. If it's still high then, you might have something going on. If it's back down after 3000 miles I would run another one at 6000 miles make sure it's continuing on a downward trend.

I had a UOA that was flagged for high copper a few years/35k ago and it was a one time thing. Still don't know what it was and it's been normal on every UOA since.

Don't get too nervous yet. Think of it this way, the average person would have no idea there might be a potential problem.

Im already at 1k since this analysis. May send another sample in at 1500 or so.


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[Burla]

No, never really had a tick in the first place as far as I could tell. Here is a video I took a while back at operating temp. Tell me what you think, still sounds the same.

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I put my noise canceling phones on, I have to tell you it sounds pretty smooth to me. If you never had the tick, it might be worth trying some PUP 5w30 or even 5w20. If you can keep tick away and get iron down, that is what I would try. Redline might not be the perfect solution for every engine. If PUP keeps your tick away, and gets wear numbers down, I would think that would be a good move. I'd just keep an eye on the chromium, I believe that is the element in the cam lob and roller, but we need to verify that.

 

[Burla]

One example of fixed limit pass fail wear numbers..




Mind you, we have to consider a hemi is a high wear engine, iron and copper in every uoa. So I would say you are within normal range, although perhaps upper normal range. This is mostly industrial engines.

 

[Burla]

So Cams would be Nickel and Chromium @14Tradesman I see your nickel went from 0, to 2, to 3. And the chromium was noted above. Clearly, nothing critical here, however you should try a different lubrication strategy to get those numbers going the right way. The are going the wrong direction, i'd give PUP at least a try.

Scratch that, I was looking at my old uoa, LMAO. Burla a fkin dummy.

So bottom line I'm not worried about iron, but there is paper out there that you should change oil as opposed to allowing high iron in oil, the same body of thought that says too much CA is sandpaper effect, they say the same thing if you have too much iron, no real risk other then that. But, your nickle and chromium are about as low as they can be, so I'm not worried about your cam.

 

[TheEnder]

Honest question here that i haven’t seen answered anywhere or i haven’t been looking hard enough for.

What are the differences from the RAM hemi, vs let’s say, a Chrysler 300 hemi? Is it just compression ratios, or different designs?


Sent from my Blue Onyx RAM 1500

 

[TheEnder]

What is crazy is these engines can endure a lot of hours and miles. I have had two myself. My Dad has has had three. All Ram 1500’s except one Durango I had. None of them have had or do have engine issues to my knowledge. We always use synthetic oil and don’t typically exceed 10,000 miles per change. Two of the trucks we sold and don’t know how far they made it. The Durango was at around 150 when I traded it in for the Ram. That Ram has close to 200k today. My Dads Ram also an 09 has close to 200k as well. I thought these engines were pretty much these same design from around 03 to current except addition of MDS and VVT. I personally turned off MDS but my Dad has not. Has not seemed to matter. I know they can last when worked as we both have worked ours but we both have idled a lot too living in North Dakota and not parking in a garage. I don’t think idling kills them even though that would make sense. I’ll get the idle time and mileage of my old Ram as my buddy still has it.

My dad has 2 cars, a 2015 Chrysler 300 and a 2016 CC Laramie 1500 with the 5.7, and the 5.7 has around 110K on it the last time i checked, he drove it for a while until he got the 300. The 5.7 in that thing somehow still fires up, purrs, and hasn’t ever had a check engine light. Or atleast that’s what he tells me. His oil change schedule is poor at best, as he goes by what the EVIC says.


Sent from my Blue Onyx RAM 1500

 

[tidefan1967]

If PUP has lower wear numbers why pay more for redline? Is there some other benefit of redline?

I had the cam/lifters changed in my 2015 Ram at 32K miles and that was on PUP 5W20 from 10K until that happened. 5W20 PYB before that. Plenty of startup chatter on all things Pennzoil for me. 5K miles change interval. I don't recommend any variety of Pennzoil 5W20 to anybody personally.

I have run Redline 5W30 in my current Ram and currently QSUD 5W30 for the last 3K miles. Haven't had any tick on either one. I'm still going back to Redline 5W30 next oil change because its not worth the risk to me to save a little money on an oil change and I even have the lifetime Mopar warranty if that tells you anything. Of course I also believe that using 5W30 vs 20 weight in my climate is also just as important. Hell I don't even put 5W20 in my sisters 4.6L Crown Vic and those motors are basically indestructible. At least put in some Lubeguard if you're going to run that watery ass **** I would say.