Timing Chain Issue

[Goliat6288]

good afternoon everyone

i own a 2005 Ram 1500 with a 4.7 Magnum engine. im doing a timing chain on it and have everything apart. But just ran into having all the old timing marks opposite of what i've read pretty much every where when the engine is at TDC.

crankshaft is at TDC, idler sprockets is at 6 oclock and camshaft sprocket marks are also at 6 oclock. not sure what to do to fix this and dont want to start taking things off and flipping them to make it "right".

any one know what i can do to get everything right or is this also normal?

all help is much appreciated

 

[Snake15eyes1998]

Before you took off the old timing chain. Did you line up the marks?

 

[Goliat6288]

Before you took off the old timing chain. Did you line up the marks?

i havent removed the old timing chain yet. all the old stuff is still in. didnt want to remove it yet since it didnt line up and wanted to make sure what i had to do before removing it

 

[Snake15eyes1998]

Was the engine running fine before? Or are you suspecting something is out of time. If the engine was running fine before, get your marks lined up. And go for it man.

 

[Goliat6288]

Was the engine running fine before? Or are you suspecting something is out of time. If the engine was running fine before, get your marks lined up. And go for it man.

nope engine wasnt running. i suspect the timing was off.

I’ve seen that I can loosen the camshaft bracket and turn the camshafts to the correct position. Any idea if that’s a possibility?

 

[Snake15eyes1998]

nope engine wasnt running. i suspect the timing was off.

I’ve seen that I can loose. The camshaft bracket and turn the camshafts to the correct position. Any idea if that’s a possibility?

I'm not 100% on that bro. Hopefully some one else comments. There is some really knowledgeable guys on here. If you can also post pics. I'm sure that will help alot too.

 

[Goliat6288]

 

[Goliat6288]

these are the marking. you can see the V8 on both sprockets are at 6 oclock and so is the mark on the big sprocket. while the crankshaft sprocket has the notch at 2 pm which is TDC

 

[Goliat6288]

im hoping the fix is as simple as taking off the camshaft bracket and placing the camshaft correctly (notch that goes in the sprocket at 12 oclock) and then putting the brackets back on. not sure if i have to do move or adjust anything else when i do that

 

[EdGs]

Wait until you hear from some of the more knowledgeable people here. Looks to me like you might be TDC on the exhaust stroke.

Here's a pic of my '02 4.7 after I replaced the head gaskets. This is TDC on the compression stroke. (Note that the colored chain links don't line up with the marks on the sprockets, thats because I had oiled the chains and guides and had turned the engine a couple revs by hand before I took the pic)



Again, wait for the more knowledgeable members. This was my first and only headgasket DIY.

I lucked out and had a copy of the FSM too, which helped ALOT.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Goliat6288]

Wait until you hear from some of the more knowledgeable people here. Looks to me like you might be TDC on the exhaust stroke.

Here's a pic of my '02 4.7 after I replaced tge head gaskets. This is TDC on the compression stroke. (Note that the colored chain links don't line up with the marks on the sprockets, thats because I had oiled the chains and guides and had turned the engine a couple revs by hand before I took the pic)

View attachment 232025

Again, wait for the more knowledgeable members. This was my first and only headgasket DIY.

Best of luck to you.

interesting. does that mean if i keep turning the crankshaft it "should" end up lining up?

havent tried that one because i cant keep turning the crankshaft past a certain point. i think its one the tensioners

and thanks for the luck. my first timing belt diy but i think its about time i tackled one.

 

[EdGs]

Whats the background of the vehicle before you got it?

 

[Goliat6288]

unfortunately not known. i bought it about a month ago and all they knew was it needed a timing chain job and cats. the person who sold it to me bought it off a mechanic shop over a year ago.

 

[EdGs]

I think you might have something more going on, especially since a mechanic shop unloaded it to someone else.

And I am far from the one that should be giving advice, because in my case, the truck was running before I worked on it.

 

[EdGs]

"Just a timing chain" is a big job, but doable for any shop.

Makes me think theres alot more going on.

 

[Goliat6288]

i hear ya but im trying to be optimistic. they did get rid of it right as the first shutdown was happening. my guess they diagnosed, original owner couldnt pay and decided to get rid of it instead of wasting tim eon it. idk. but i have time to find out not like i need it to run anytime soon

 

[El Huapo]

Never worked on that engine (looks pretty complicated to me) and I'm not sure about the marks being at 6 o'clock, but what comes to mind is that a 4 stroke engine will have #1 cylinder come to the top twice per cycle. So you may just be 180 degrees out, thinking it's TDC. Again, forgive me if I'm not catching on to what you said. The only way I know of to be sure of an engine that has been tinkered with is to pull the valve cover so you can see the rockers for #1 and roll the engine in the proper direction (look at the fan blades if you don't know offhand which is proper) and watch the operation. The intake valve/rocker will operate and then go closed (up) at or just before TDC. At the risk of overstating, the intake manifold runners will show which is the intake valve if you don't already know. I do not intend to "Insult anyone's intelligence" here, but no one is born with this knowledge, we all had to learn it somewhere. Hope this helps and good luck.

Or maybe--->(9) How to Install Timing Chain Set Dodge, Jeep & Chrysler 4.7 & 3.7L - YouTube

 

[Goliat6288]

Never worked on that engine (looks pretty complicated to me) and I'm not sure about the marks being at 6 o'clock, but what comes to mind is that a 4 stroke engine will have #1 cylinder come to the top twice per cycle. So you may just be 180 degrees out, thinking it's TDC. Again, forgive me if I'm not catching on to what you said. The only way I know of to be sure of an engine that has been tinkered with is to pull the valve cover so you can see the rockers for #1 and roll the engine in the proper direction (look at the fan blades if you don't know offhand which is proper) and watch the operation. The intake valve/rocker will operate and then go closed (up) at or just before TDC. At the risk of overstating, the intake manifold runners will show which is the intake valve if you don't already know. I do not intend to "Insult anyone's intelligence" here, but no one is born with this knowledge, we all had to learn it somewhere. Hope this helps and good luck.

Or maybe--->(9) How to Install Timing Chain Set Dodge, Jeep & Chrysler 4.7 & 3.7L - YouTube

thanks for the advice. and you arent insulting my intelligence. im mechanically inclined and good with my hands. i learn as i do and since this is my first time taking apart and engine i havent really learned it, specially this car which i just acquired.

by rotating 180degrees do you mean the camshaft sprockets or the crankshaft one?

the only i know (think) im at TCD is because of the notch on the crankshaft sprocket. it supposed to be at TDC when its at 2 oclock. would a full 360 of the crankshaft sprocket only move the camshaft sprocket 180 to have the V8 at 12 oclock

just to be clear this is why i going off of as a correct placement for the timing markers



the only sprocket that matches this picture is the bottom most one. the rest are 180 off

 

[Goliat6288]

if i needed to rotate the crankshaft would removing the tensioners (picture in previous post shown as #2) make it easier to rotate?

 

[EdGs]

1 rotation of the crankshaft (bottom sprocket) moves the idler sprocket (large center sprocket) 1/2 rotation. 1/2 rotation of the idler sprocket (large center sprocket) moves BOTH camshaft sprockets (top left and right sprockets) 1/2 rotation.

The pistons are at TDC twice during a full cycle, once on the compression stroke and once on the exhaust stroke.