Tow better with my truck

[fljab]

I want to throw something out there to the group. I don't tow much at all, in fact, haven't done it in yrs, but I need to tow an open car trailer with whatever treasure I want to drag home. I'm not sure what a 18' open trailer weighs, and know a '59 Imperial is more than a '67 Dart, but I'm thinking maybe 6000 lbs?

I have a standard cab that I bought new, short bed '17 Tradesman with a 5.7, 8 sp, 3.21 open rear end, and less than 40K miles. I've got basically 2 questions about my truck in particular, and of course open to suggestions and constructive criticism.



> Should I go to a steeper rear end? I was thinking a 3.91 and limited slip while I'm in there. Would help with tow plus make it more fun generally driving around unloaded.

> Would the shorter wheelbase of this truck make it "squirrelly" with a trailer attached as described?



I really like this truck plus hate to spend the $$ for something I do occasionally. I have no debts except our mortgage and we've been here for almost 20 yrs, so paid down good and have lots of equity in the house. Point being I'm really careful about what I buy and really don't like payments. I don't anticipate towing a lot, but do need to go, well, anywhere in the country, not just flatstanistan Florida where I live, to get/take a car or old truck.

Wifey & I also talk about maybe doing some RV, but would be something like a 22' or smaller travel trailer, and really probably in the 16' range, so again, don't need a huge truck for that.


Thoughts?

TIA

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

For me the 3.91 gear would make it fun to drive when not towing also but as long as you have a trailer with brakes I would have no problem towing with that setup. I have about the same vehicle you have except I have a 6 speed with a 4.10 gear ratio but I would think yours would do much better than mine with the 8 speed. If I was going to tow all the time I would feel more comfortable with a 2500 but doing it just every now and then I wouldn't buy another truck otherwise.

 

[Travelin Ram]

If you’re going to GA that’s one thing. If you’re going to CO it’s something else. Sounds like you’ll repeat your tows periodically?

It’s a shades of gray question, not black or white. All I can say is a cross country trip with a maxed out tow is work. With ample reserve it’s a treat.

If *I* were doing a sideline or hobby that involved car hauling, I’d have more truck.

As to your specific questions, I’d just run the 8 speed in 6th gear or whatever. You won’t really benefit from regearing. And there absolutely is a correlation between wheelbase and stability.

 

[fljab]

If you’re going to GA that’s one thing. If you’re going to CO it’s something else. Sounds like you’ll repeat your tows periodically?

It’s a shades of gray question, not black or white. All I can say is a cross country trip with a maxed out tow is work. With ample reserve it’s a treat.

If *I* were doing a sideline or hobby that involved car hauling, I’d have more truck.

As to your specific questions, I’d just run the 8 speed in 6th gear or whatever. You won’t really benefit from regearing. And there absolutely is a correlation between wheelbase and stability.

Thanks for the reply. I think the wheelbase is as important a question as the power/gearing. I am confident power wise it can work. Yes, can limit gear to make the 3.21 work, great info.

As said, would rather avoid buying more truck, but will if I have to. I almost jumped in '19 to a leftover '18 RCLB 4x4 Cummins and 6 sp manual. I actually found several of them up north where they stock them for snow plow work. But, didn't jump on it obviously.

I do want to be able to go out west if needed, in fact, have a '69 AMC with a AMX motor in it that I need to get to a guy in Phoenix, so that's part of the reason for this post.

Right now in investigation mode, so need to decide, do I want to put some more money in mine, or trade/sell and get something else?

 

[2003F350]

An open car trailer (flatbed) rated for 7k weighs in stupid light...like, under 1800 lbs, depending on what brand it is. Because of that, my state doesn't issue titles for them, just registrations. Now, granted that only leaves you 5200 lbs to be legal when towing, but a lot of cars come in WAY under that, hell I had a '68 Firebird that weighed in about 2800 lbs stock, even with the 400 engine and 4-speed rock crusher. So for some of the cars you're talking about, a 7k trailer will be fine, for some others, you may want to invest in a 10k trailer.

That said, with a flatbed it's all about the loading. Because you can move the load forward and back to adjust your hitch weight, you can keep your truck from squatting too much, meaning you'll be solidly in control and have enough weight on your steer axle. You'll be fine doing what you are wanting to do with your 1500. The 5.7 and the 8-speed are a great combo.

As for gearing...I'm in favor of it (go straight to 3.92's, skip anything else) for a couple reasons if you've got the means to do it. First, as mentioned, it'll be a LOT more fun to drive around daily. Your mileage will take a hit, but that 8-speed will limit how big of a hit. The benefit to regearing won't be noticeable on flat ground, but once you hit hills of any magnitude it will - 3.92's will let you stay in a higher gear longer when pulling up a hill. Eventually it'll shift, but much later than a 3.21-equipped truck.

As for your concerns about sway...there are a LOT of factors to this. Wheelbase is one of them, but if you stay under a 20' trailer I don't think it will be an issue unless you have a tire blow out, especially if you have the integrated brake controller and the trailer has brakes on at least one axle. If you DO notice sway, you can always add a friction sway bar to your setup. They're sold a lot of places, they're relatively cheap (I think Curt sells one for about $50-75? been a while since I bought one), and they're really easy to install, the hardest part is if you have to weld the tab on to your hitch to mount the front ball.

Now, if you're considering getting an RV in the future, that's a different ball game. Even with a short trailer (you're smart to want to stay short on this, given your regular cab/short box setup), the weight may not be an issue because of how small those trailers are, BUT frontal surface area will be, and this is what gears will REALLY help with.

Remember that while your flatbed stays pretty much behind the truck and doesn't get buffeted around by the wind (even with a car on it), an RV absolutely will. It's like putting a giant sail on the back of your truck and trying to drive with it - you're now not just trying to move the weight, but you've also added a lot of wind resistance to overcome, which adds to the load on your driveline. A hill that you could pull a loaded flatbed up at 55 with no problems will now become a much greater challenge, especially with 3.21's. Those 3.92's are going to help a LOT in this situation.

In case you don't want to read all that, I'll put it this way - you'll probably be fine with your current setup for towing a flatbed with a car, but if you are wanting to pull an RV around and want to hit the mountains, you'll want to consider regearing.

 

[mtofell]

Remember that while your flatbed stays pretty much behind the truck and doesn't get buffeted around by the wind (even with a car on it), an RV absolutely will. It's like putting a giant sail on the back of your truck and trying to drive with it - you're now not just trying to move the weight, but you've also added a lot of wind resistance to overcome, which adds to the load on your driveline. A hill that you could pull a loaded flatbed up at 55 with no problems will now become a much greater challenge, especially with 3.21's. Those 3.92's are going to help a LOT in this situation.

In case you don't want to read all that, I'll put it this way - you'll probably be fine with your current setup for towing a flatbed with a car, but if you are wanting to pull an RV around and want to hit the mountains, you'll want to consider regearing.

These are my thoughts exactly - I've done a lot of towing of RVs and a fair amount of auto transporters and it is really night and day. The auto transport feels like I'm hauling an anvil and the RV a sail. Similar weight feels nothing alike. The auto transport is just low and tight, and tracks nicely. RVs of any shape/size get blown all over the place.

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

Wish the people that tow them down the road at 70 plus MPH could understand that. Something happens to people when they pull something down the road with a pickup. It's like they have something to prove like "THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD". LOL

 

[csuder99]

Looking at the tow rating chart the difference between 3.21 and 3.92 is only 550 lbs for that particular truck (8610 vs 9160). It's somewhat low compared to long bed or bigger cab trucks though. I wouldn't change the gearing at this point and see how it goes.
As already mentioned car trailers have much less wind drag than travel trailers so the truck will not work as hard. Weight only becomes an issue on really steep roads.

 

[2003F350]

Looking at the tow rating chart the difference between 3.21 and 3.92 is only 550 lbs for that particular truck (8610 vs 9160). It's somewhat low compared to long bed or bigger cab trucks though. I wouldn't change the gearing at this point and see how it goes.
As already mentioned car trailers have much less wind drag than travel trailers so the truck will not work as hard. Weight only becomes an issue on really steep roads.

I agree, and that's why I mention that OP will probably be fine if they're only going to be pulling a flatbed. The wind drag isn't going to make it worth changing gears.

With an RV though, it's a different world and it would make it much more worth it, even though the tow rating is only a small difference, it will make a world of difference when you're trying to move that sail of an RV at speed.

 

[fljab]

Hey all, great advice, thanks for the input. Hmm, some things to consider and decide whether to keep this truck put some money in it, or go for something longer/better set up. New trucks are so dang expensive, was just wanting to avoid that if I could. I'd much rather drop whatever, like maybe $2K cash into this one if it would work, but not set on it if it's just "lipstick on a pig".

Yes, could buy used if I could find something in good shape, set up the way I want, etc. I did some looking today here and there and jeez a lot of super high mileage late model tow trucks.

I can believe that for a RV vs flatbed, makes sense. We missed a deal on a very nice 16' Airstream. All the ones I've seen since have been more than double the price. But, don't need to commit to that yet, really want to solve the open car trailer thing first.

So, tongue weight, how do you figure it out. I know there's a spec that can be looked up, like so many % of total on the tongue, but how do you know when you have that much? I understand that positioning would affect it and why, just not sure how to know how much is on the tongue.

Thanks again, like I always say and have been told, if you don't know, ask!

 

[kurek]

You're going to have no problems as long as you keep your load in the right spot on the trailer.

Without a scale it's hard to determine how much weight is on the tongue, and depending what kind of flat bed you have if there are preinstalled wheel cups and you're pulling a vehicle it needs to have its wheels in those cups anyway.

I've got a '15 with the 6 speed transmission and 3.55 gears, towed this combo (~4700 lb SUV + 2200lb Uhaul trailer) from Los Angeles to Phoenix in summer, it was nothing including the steep hot grades out of Palm Desert at the speed limit with horsepower to spare.



The 120" wheelbase truck had no difficulty managing the trailer for steering or braking either, that trailer in particular has surge brakes but any trailer over 3500lb GVM should have brakes.

I have a CDL and am accustomed to driving large combinations, have familiarity with how it feels when you're pressing your luck - this wasn't anywhere near pressing my luck.

You should be good, just keep your head on you, inspect and test your equipment often and stay within rated capacities.

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

For me 10% tongue weight, 6000 lb. = 600lb tongue weight. Don't know what access you have to a scale but with trailer loaded setting fully on hitch ball set a scale under the jack and jack trailer up till it just starts to lift off of ball and that's your tongue weight. Bathroom scales would work on smaller trailers but I don't know of any bathroom scales that go up to 600lb. LOL

 

[Travelin Ram]

Since you’ll be towing cars of different weights get a tongue scale. I have one from Sherline. There are also gadgets that plug into the OBD port on the truck and estimate the weight based on some parameters off the truck. Reports are they’re pretty accurate. IIRC @Loudram has one.

It’s easy to get tongue weight wrong on a car hauler.

 

[kurek]

Since you’ll be towing cars of different weights get a tongue scale. I have one from Sherline. There are also gadgets that plug into the OBD port on the truck and estimate the weight based on some parameters off the truck.

Under $300 if you're going to be doing it a lot this looks like a heck of a time saver..

 

[fljab]

Yes, love the Amazon scale/adjustable ball mount! Great stuff, thanks.

I'm getting the feeling my truck will do fine for the open trailer. Now, need to do some costs and see what it'll take to get what I need. I did just go on my local Ram dealer site, looked at prices, and spiffing up mine seems a much more better idea! I could buy better used, but I know where my truck has been and how it's been serviced.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to seem like a cheap ass here. I can afford a new truck but just don't see the sense of doing it if I don't have to. I retired from 2 good jobs with pensions (USN and Kennedy Space Center) and invested well enough. While we won't be getting our own island in the Keys anytime soon, we can pretty much travel and do the things we want, but also need to budget right as anyone does.

 

[RamInfo]

Years ago my uncle and I towed a flatbed trailer hauling a race car and equipment (extra wheels/tires, spares, etc). The tow vehicle was an early model F150 with 390 V8 and automatic. My observations go like this:

Skip the gearing change for now, you won’t really need it with the 8spd. Later on, if you feel you need more acceleration there will be time to change gearing. For now, I’d focus on upgrading tires to an E-rated tire, getting a high-quality weight-distribution hitch, making sure the truck suspension/shocks are shipshape, and possibly a sway bar for the hitch. You may want to install a better rear sway bar like a Hellman on the truck.

Hitch weighting is critical and you can control that with an adjustable tie-down system that lets you move the car fore/aft on the trailer, and a Sherline scale so you can measure the tongue weight and keep it in the 11-13% range. I hope you’re looking at a tandem axle trailer, and know that your biggest concerns will not be pulling the load, but stopping it and preventing trailer sway. Get the control and stopping issues sorted first, then worry about gearing later.

IMHO, of course. Good luck,
DG

 

[tron67j]

Why not just ship the car to the west. I have priced it before for about $300-$500 with insurance. Less stress for sure. Do your driving without the work and enjoy your truck the way it is. Just a thought.

 

[Badger 13]

I would also look at an aluminum car trailer over a steel one. You will pay more for the aluminum, but I think it is worth the extra money. And get the best tires you can on the trailer.

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

I would also look at an aluminum car trailer over a steel one. You will pay more for the aluminum, but I think it is worth the extra money. And get the best tires you can on the trailer.

Good looking truck you have Badger 13!

 

[fljab]

Catching up this morning, so here goes -

Aluminum car trailers; yes, like them, but from what I see new and used substantially more cost, like double from a quick craigslist search. I'll keep looking.

Gearing priority; good advice. I have seen a couple of trailers used that had "all the stuff" including several of the items you mentioned. Yes, agree, need to make sure truck suspension is in good shape and will look at a better rear sway bar. And only looking at tandem axle with brakes trailers.

Commercial shipping; great idea and cheaper if doing it once in a great while. But I have some other tasks that a trailer could do and a good open 18' trailer could fill these roles. I have the room on my property to store it.

Shopping for trailers. The wood deck versions seem to be best priced and would be most versatile for other uses. Also have seen the open center type (don't want) and also dovetail steel deck/diamond plate. Those seem more expensive. I think I'm going to concentrate on the wood deck style unless I find a great deal on a dovetail. If I can find a good used with straps & winch, would be ahead on price.