Towing/no power

[bobinsanantonio]

I have a 2009 1500 with the 4.7. According to what I've read, I should be able to tow about 8000 lb "if properly equipped". I have the tow/haul button, so I assumed I was "properly equipped."

The problem is when towing my camper (~3000 lbs), the truck has no power going up hills. On some of the steeper hills, I can barely make 30mph.

Any idea what the issue is, and how to fix it? My son (shade-tree) suggested swapping the 4.7 out for the 5.7, but that's a cost I'm not eager to make.

 

[mtofell]

The 4.7 doesn't win any races but I'd think you should be able to maintain speeds above 30 unless it's an ultra steep hill. I'm not familiar with the gearing of the tranny in that truck but Ram will put a crappy one in a truck. My 6.4 Hemi had a real dead spot around 35 due to the 1-2 gap. Could be something like that. Although, 3000# is a pretty light load.

 

[2003F350]

IIRC in 2009 Rams with the 4.7 only had the 6 speed trans, so it's very possible it's got to do with that.

However, to pull 8000 lbs 'properly equipped,' it's not just about having the tow/haul button. You need the proper axle ratio, proper cab/option configuration to keep truck weight down and maximize payload/axle ratings, and the proper engine - which may not be the 4.7, it is more likely the 5.7 Hemi. Back in those days (and still today for the most part), the 'properly equipped' trucks to pull max weight are stripped-down, base-level trucks with the highest torque/hp rated engines.

Having said all that, the 4.7 was a fairly capable motor, we had it in my wife's '01 Durango. It wasn't the most powerful beast out there, but it would pull a 3-4k trailer just fine, but we live in a pretty flat area too. Its biggest issue was once we hit about 150k miles, the timing chain needed replaced but I didn't have time, so I'd just replace the cam sensor every 6 months or so.

I would suggest finding out what axle ratio you have - if you have something like 3.21's, that 4.7 is kneecapped - you likely will still struggle with towing regardless of what you do. A much cheaper option (for sure if you're 2WD and likely if you're 4WD) is to do a gear swap to something like 3.73's. It would definitely help, and might even wake that 4.7 up some.

 

[LouM]

My last 4.7 was in an 2002 Dakota with the 5 speed. It would tow but it was a high winding engine that wouldn't pickup and run till it was above 3500 rpm.
To handle any kind of load it's going to need some rpm, downshift it and go.

 

[caulk04]

You are to the floor and barely maintaining 30 with a 3k camper?

 

[Burla]

That is what manual mode is for. You pressed tow haul and still the same?

Engines isn't what matters here, gears are. You have the 545rfe? Replace gears you should be good, 4:11's or better yet 4:56. If 4 wd do both axles same gear ratio.

 

[2003F350]

That is what manual mode is for. You pressed tow haul and still the same?

Engines isn't what matters here, gears are. You have the 545rfe? Replace gears you should be good, 4:11's or better yet 4:56. If 4 wd do both axles same gear ratio.

I don't think he needs to go that far to pull a 3k trailer. The loss of mileage empty wouldn't make it worth it. I think, for OP's purposes, 3.73's would be more than adequate.

My parents pulled a 35' travel trailer that weighed probably 7k with everything they carried in it, behind a 1990 Suburban with the 5.7 that made 210 hp and 300 ft-lbs of torque, and it only had 3.73's for gears. His truck, with a 3k trailer and 310 hp and 330 ft-lbs of torque, should be able to handle more, UNLESS it's got 3.21 gears in it. I think a swap to 3.73's would be more than adequate.

 

[Daw14]

I read 8000 lbs in the post.

 

[HemiLonestar]

IIRC in 2009 Rams with the 4.7 only had the 6 speed trans, so it's very possible it's got to do with that.

However, to pull 8000 lbs 'properly equipped,' it's not just about having the tow/haul button. You need the proper axle ratio, proper cab/option configuration to keep truck weight down and maximize payload/axle ratings, and the proper engine - which may not be the 4.7, it is more likely the 5.7 Hemi. Back in those days (and still today for the most part), the 'properly equipped' trucks to pull max weight are stripped-down, base-level trucks with the highest torque/hp rated engines.

Having said all that, the 4.7 was a fairly capable motor, we had it in my wife's '01 Durango. It wasn't the most powerful beast out there, but it would pull a 3-4k trailer just fine, but we live in a pretty flat area too. Its biggest issue was once we hit about 150k miles, the timing chain needed replaced but I didn't have time, so I'd just replace the cam sensor every 6 months or so.

I would suggest finding out what axle ratio you have - if you have something like 3.21's, that 4.7 is kneecapped - you likely will still struggle with towing regardless of what you do. A much cheaper option (for sure if you're 2WD and likely if you're 4WD) is to do a gear swap to something like 3.73's. It would definitely help, and might even wake that 4.7 up some.

Still using the 545RFE in 2009. Only 3.55 or 3.92 available for the 4.7 that year. 3.21 was hemi only. I don't know that 3.73's are available for that axle but if he's rated for 8k then he likely already has 3.92's.

That is what manual mode is for. You pressed tow haul and still the same?

Engines isn't what matters here, gears are. You have the 545rfe? Replace gears you should be good, 4:11's or better yet 4:56. If 4 wd do both axles same gear ratio.

Definitely the 545RFE. 4.56's for the win.

I don't think he needs to go that far to pull a 3k trailer. The loss of mileage empty wouldn't make it worth it. I think, for OP's purposes, 3.73's would be more than adequate.

My parents pulled a 35' travel trailer that weighed probably 7k with everything they carried in it, behind a 1990 Suburban with the 5.7 that made 210 hp and 300 ft-lbs of torque, and it only had 3.73's for gears. His truck, with a 3k trailer and 310 hp and 330 ft-lbs of torque, should be able to handle more, UNLESS it's got 3.21 gears in it. I think a swap to 3.73's would be more than adequate.

He likely already has 3.92's (if the 8k is accurate), so 3.73's would be a bad idea.

I have a 2009 1500 with the 4.7. According to what I've read, I should be able to tow about 8000 lb "if properly equipped". I have the tow/haul button, so I assumed I was "properly equipped."

The problem is when towing my camper (~3000 lbs), the truck has no power going up hills. On some of the steeper hills, I can barely make 30mph.

Any idea what the issue is, and how to fix it? My son (shade-tree) suggested swapping the 4.7 out for the 5.7, but that's a cost I'm not eager to make.

Are you using the tow/haul to lockout overdrive? 4th and 5th will absolutely lug that thing down and you can actually damage the OD clutches in that situation as the trans jumps around at extra load.
I can tell you that a 2003 5.7 quad cab with 3.92's towing a 6000lb+ load through the TN mountains I could barely maintain 50 (at best) going uphill.
Shade-tree likely doesn't understand the absolute pain that swap would be lol.

Here is the official chart: http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2009/docs/dr/mlup1500.pdf

 

[bobinsanantonio]

Thank you everyone for the input. After talking to my son, we're going to look at the gear ratio and see where that takes us.

I'll update this thread when it gets done.

 

[RamDiver]

Thank you everyone for the input. After talking to my son, we're going to look at the gear ratio and see where that takes us.

I'll update this thread when it gets done.

What is the current gear ratio?

.

 

[Burla]

If it is the 3.55's, those are just dog gears paired with the 545rfe, which I have been driving for 16 years so I would know. Had I known I'd keep this truck so long I would have got a different combo. Even 3.21's with the 8 speed are better so I hear anyhow. But you need to make the best out of that transmission as well. I'd go 4.10's at a minimum, then if you want to run big tires sometime have at end speed, usually not an issue unless you like traveling 95mph.

But even with the 3.55's you should be able to tow 3k pounds. My trailer full is 3k pounds and even with the dog gears I can forget it is even attached.

 

[HemiBrother]

How many miles on the rig? How hot is the trans getting? Had 4.7 before ran great till I tried to haul anything with it and though it never thrown any codes I replaced the cats at 150,000 miles and what a world of difference it made towing with new cats on it the old cats were pretty bad but ran fine till I tried to tow anything with it.

 

[HemiLonestar]

Thank you everyone for the input. After talking to my son, we're going to look at the gear ratio and see where that takes us.

I'll update this thread when it gets done.

If you can't find anything in the truck, go here and enter your VIN in all caps and it will tell you what the truck was built with: Equipment Listing

 

[62Blazer]

The trouble with this type of question is there are a lot of variables going on here. There is also some subjective opinions going on. Exactly how steep is this hill? Are you on a backcountry road on the side of mountain and starting from a stop? Or are you cruising down the freeway at 65 mph and trucks slows to 30 mph on a grade?
Are they actually putting the throttle pedal to the floor. It wouldn't be the first time I have seen someone complain about a lack of power climbing grades but then you find out they were only giving it half throttle.
Is the trans properly downshifting? What gear is the trans maintaining? Need to make sure it's properly downshifting. If to the floor pulling a grade and only at 30 mph I would suspect it to be down in 1st gear. What RPM are you running when this happens? And again, do you have your foot to the floor?
Also, before stating the entire issue is just a lack of power from the 4.7 you need to determine it is actually running correctly. Do all the gearing changes you want but if the engine isn't running correctly it's not going to help the problem. Same goes with the transmission.
This is especially true regarding the 5.7 swap. That's not really a cheap and quick fix.
The rated towing capacity of any truck takes into account a lot more factors than just engine power. You should be much more concerned about vehicle handling, steering, braking, etc... than power. You can put a Cummins in a Honda Civic but that doesn't mean it can now magically tow a big trailer!

 

[crash68]

It wouldn't be the first time I have seen someone complain about a lack of power climbing grades but then you find out they were only giving it half throttle.

yeap, there have been quite a few on this forum that complained of no power or thinking something is wrong because of high RPMs while towing with gas engine.
Have to get the engine up to the power band and with most gassers it's up in the 4K RPM range. If one wants to tow in the 2K RPM range, you need a diesel.
The 5.7 Hemi makes 410 ft/lbs of torque at 4K RPMs where as the EcoDiesel is 480 ft/lbs at 1600 RPMs, it's torque that tows a trailer not horsepower.

 

[Hagar1]

That is what manual mode is for. You pressed tow haul and still the same?

Engines isn't what matters here, gears are. You have the 545rfe? Replace gears you should be good, 4:11's or better yet 4:56. If 4 wd do both axles same gear ratio.

That reminds me of a situation that I ran into in a different life a long time ago. This fellow bought a brand new Ramcharger and it misbehaved from day 1. I was asked to help out so I did. First thing I said to the tech, make sure that front and rear diffs are the same ratio. He said, that he had already checked the tags and they were. I said, pull the covers and count the teeth and we'll do some math. He came to me a little while later and after the math was done, there was a 2.94:1 in the rear as there should be BUT a 2.87:1 in the front. It was built like that. It took 3/10 of a Kilometer for it to bind up and you would think that you had been hit by something when it let go.
Put a new gear set in front and it was all happy ever after.

 

[Burla]

A 1990 f150 had three engines ranging from 145hp to 210hp, and a tow rating of 7500. f250 same year also engines ranging from 145hp to 230hp, with tow rating 10k pounds, plus 2500 if you have a 5th. point being, it is rarely that an engine 285 HP or whatever a pentastar is by any given year would be an issue towing 3k pounds unless there was something wrong with it. If you look at any towing chart, nothing gives you gains like gear choice. Puts the force on the road. It might be cheaper to sell the truck and get something geared better in the first place with what shops are charging these days.

That engine is a v8 with over 300 ponies, I wouldn't expect moving to a hemi all things equal you would get much towing performance out of it. Some yes, but nothing major.

 

[Burla]

Just searching a hemi only gets you 1500 pounds.

The 2009 Ram 1500 towing capacity varies depending on the engine and configuration, with the 5.7L HEMI V8 offering the highest potential at 9,100 pounds. Properly equipped models with the 4.7L V8 can tow up to 7,600 pounds, while the 3.7L V6 typically handles up to 3,800 pounds

 

[LouM]

That reminds me of a situation that I ran into in a different life a long time ago. This fellow bought a brand new Ramcharger and it misbehaved from day 1. I was asked to help out so I did. First thing I said to the tech, make sure that front and rear diffs are the same ratio. He said, that he had already checked the tags and they were. I said, pull the covers and count the teeth and we'll do some math. He came to me a little while later and after the math was done, there was a 2.94:1 in the rear as there should be BUT a 2.87:1 in the front. It was built like that. It took 3/10 of a Kilometer for it to bind up and you would think that you had been hit by something when it let go.
Put a new gear set in front and it was all happy ever after.

That used to be very common, a bit taller gear in the front so it was leading the rear. They would corner while working much better then when even.