Transmission Issues

[mjohnson05261984]

In need of some advice. I think I cooked my transmission. 2016 Ram 1500 with EcoDiesel ZF 70HP I put ATF +4 in the transmission when I installed a new trans pan... Started having some crazy erractic shifting like when I was slowing down at red lights. And slippage when heavy acceleration. This past weekend I drained the transmission and the stuff that came out looked like chocolate milk. Drain plug magnet was caked with metal. It still shifts and seems to be no issue when cruising but think I need to rebuild the trans or replace with new. Problem is I have a full delete, so not sure if the new trans TCM programming to the ECM would wipe out my tube? What do you think my next steps should be?

 

[Burla]

I doubt if atf 4 would make it like chocolate milk, but the zf8 doesn't like heavier oil and atf4 is about 2 points higher, has happened here before, and can account for slipping, but I think you have something else going on. How is your coolant level? How about engine oil level?

Now, atf 4 was red, and zf8 was green, so now brown can be a thing, but it should be clear. What was the zf8 used fluid look like? Can you post a picture?

 

[Burla]

I wouldn't bother replacing til it dies, you may be able to fix this. Was metal like sand or shards?

I'd see a shop with a flush machine and put back lifeguard 8 fluid.

 

[mjohnson05261984]

The metal was like sand they were a couple smaller bits in there about the size of the tip of a pin that were hard that I could noticeably rub between my fingers and feel that it was an actual chunk but nothing larger than that. Originally when I first drained the oil out it looked dark but didn't smell burns or anything like that. I did notice that my engine oil was about two to three quarts low because I also did an oil change while I went ahead and did this transmission flush but my coolant has never been low. I'll see if I can figure out how do I attach a picture here of the oil that I just drained out but I didn't keep a picture of the original oil.

 

[mjohnson05261984]

 

[JHoward]

View attachment 554295

If that is what came out of your transmission, you've got a problem ...

 

[Burla]

So the metal sand doesn't sound fatal, but it looks like you are getting coolant in there. I think you have a situation where it is mixing, even if you put a new transmission, if the underlying issue isn't fixed, you would be back here. I don't know anything about that engine/transmission combo, but that isn't normal. Did something you did on original flush break a coolant line? Does any system use the coolant to heat, such as using the coolant to raise the temp?

Fix the underlying issue.

boy chocolate milk sure describes that well, lol.

Did you have any shifting problems before the first fluid change?

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[Burla]

You coolant level is good and coolant is clear?

 

[mjohnson05261984]

If that is what came out of your transmission, you've got a problem ...

Oh yeah tell me about it

 

[mjohnson05261984]

You coolant level is good and coolant is clear?

Coolant level is good still very orange and no sign of contamination

 

[mjohnson05261984]

So the metal sand doesn't sound fatal, but it looks like you are getting coolant in there. I think you have a situation where it is mixing, even if you put a new transmission, if the underlying issue isn't fixed, you would be back here. I don't know anything about that engine/transmission combo, but that isn't normal. Did something you did on original flush break a coolant line? Does any system use the coolant to heat, such as using the coolant to raise the temp?

Fix the underlying issue.

boy chocolate milk sure describes that well, lol.

Did you have any shifting problems before the first fluid change?

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.

So no I didn't have any problem shifting prior to the first time that I changed it The only reason I changed it is because I didn't know when anyone had done a service on it last and I know that the interval was every 60,000 mi and I had had it for well over 60,000 miles. I agree that there's definitely an underlying issue that I have to find and it almost would seem like I'm getting an engine oil in there because again my engine oil was low which is never happened before in previous oil changes. So that's what I was going to try to research and find but I figured I would come here to see if anybody else had ever experienced anything like that before going down the rabbit hole of YouTube and online forums. I do not think that it is coolant because again I didn't lose any coolant and the orange OAT coolant that the truck has is still very orange in the surge tank. In 22 years in the army as a mechanic I've never seen anything like that to be that color. I've seen the strawberry milkshake and all this other stuff but I've never seen this particular color. It was definitely red when it went in and coming out like chocolate milk makes me think that maybe it has a bunch of aeration but I don't know I'm not a subject matter expert in this

 

[Wild one]

So no I didn't have any problem shifting prior to the first time that I changed it The only reason I changed it is because I didn't know when anyone had done a service on it last and I know that the interval was every 60,000 mi and I had had it for well over 60,000 miles. I agree that there's definitely an underlying issue that I have to find and it almost would seem like I'm getting an engine oil in there because again my engine oil was low which is never happened before in previous oil changes. So that's what I was going to try to research and find but I figured I would come here to see if anybody else had ever experienced anything like that before going down the rabbit hole of YouTube and online forums. I do not think that it is coolant because again I didn't lose any coolant and the orange OAT coolant that the truck has is still very orange in the surge tank. In 22 years in the army as a mechanic I've never seen anything like that to be that color. I've seen the strawberry milkshake and all this other stuff but I've never seen this particular color. It was definitely red when it went in and coming out like chocolate milk makes me think that maybe it has a bunch of aeration but I don't know I'm not a subject matter expert in this

The only way coolant will make it into the 8 speed is if the Thermal Management Unit aka heater has developed a leak,which although not common,is also not unheard of either.If you did get coolant in there,odds are your transmission is toast.You might have also toasted it by using the wrong fluid to,whatever possessed you to use ATF+4 in an 8 speed.You can try a few drain and fills and a new filter,but if you have chunks of metal in the pan,you might just be pouring money down the drain.

 

[mjohnson05261984]

The only way coolant will make it into the 8 speed is if the Thermal Management Unit aka heater has developed a leak,which although not common,is also not unheard of either.If you did get coolant in there,odds are your transmission is toast.You might have also toasted it by using the wrong fluid to,whatever possessed you to use ATF+4 in an 8 speed.You can try a few drain and fills and a new filter,but if you have chunks of metal in the pan,you might just be pouring money down the drain.

I agree only reason I use the +4 is because that's what they recommended over at the auto parts store and despite my better judgment I didn't do any research to verify just went off a trust that's on me no doubt about it. However doesn't change where I am today I'll definitely look into the thermal management unit been doing a little bit more research and realize that I could still be getting coolant into my transmission at a very slow rate without necessarily contaminating the coolant that's what I've been reading. I'll have to pressure test everything and see if I can't find a leak it's pretty obvious something's getting in there and I don't think it's engine oil again transmission didn't really seem to be overfilled to me but I didn't check the level honestly before opening up the drain plug. So maybe it was over full and I just didn't notice it never seen any puddles on the ground underneath my truck or anything like that quite the conundrum but I appreciate the feedback

 

[Wild one]

I agree only reason I use the +4 is because that's what they recommended over at the auto parts store and despite my better judgment I didn't do any research to verify just went off a trust that's on me no doubt about it. However doesn't change where I am today I'll definitely look into the thermal management unit been doing a little bit more research and realize that I could still be getting coolant into my transmission at a very slow rate without necessarily contaminating the coolant that's what I've been reading. I'll have to pressure test everything and see if I can't find a leak it's pretty obvious something's getting in there and I don't think it's engine oil again transmission didn't really seem to be overfilled to me but I didn't check the level honestly before opening up the drain plug. So maybe it was over full and I just didn't notice it never seen any puddles on the ground underneath my truck or anything like that quite the conundrum but I appreciate the feedback

If you're trying to band-aid it together with a couple drain and fills,i'd pop the lines apart by the rad that feed transmission fluid to the cooler,and blow it out with about 20/25 psi air pressure,that'll give you a bit of a head start on getting all the old fluid out of the system. If the TMU is leaking coolant into the tranny fluid,you can delete it completely off the side of the transmission,the cars and HD trucks don't use the coolant heater/TMU only the 1500's do,so it can be deleted if needed,or you can buy a new one if you want,but i'd just delete it and the coolant lines that feed it.
Start reading about here to see how to delete the thermal management unit off the side of the transmission,if you want to delete it completely.

RevMax 8 speed thermostat bypass

I assume the two black fittings you refer to are the ones seen in post #452. OK that means that cooled fluid does return to the manifold that sits between the transmission and the heating unit. This fluid must make it into the transmission during HOT conditions through the O-ringed "inflow"...

www.ramforum.com

 

[mjohnson05261984]

If you're trying to band-aid it together with a couple drain and fills,i'd pop the lines apart by the rad that feed transmission fluid to the cooler,and blow it out with about 20/25 psi air pressure,that'll give you a bit of a head start on getting all the old fluid out of the system. If the TMU is leaking coolant into the tranny fluid,you can delete it completely off the side of the transmission,the cars and HD trucks don't use the coolant heater/TMU only the 1500's do,so it can be deleted if needed,or you can buy a new one if you want,but i'd just delete it and the coolant lines that feed it.
Start reading about here to see how to delete the thermal management unit off the side of the transmission,if you want to delete it completely.

RevMax 8 speed thermostat bypass

I assume the two black fittings you refer to are the ones seen in post #452. OK that means that cooled fluid does return to the manifold that sits between the transmission and the heating unit. This fluid must make it into the transmission during HOT conditions through the O-ringed "inflow"...

www.ramforum.com

I'll look into this, thanks for the info ... I just filled it with a ZF 8 fluid this past weekend ... Still having some rough shifts especially in heavy acceleration and deceleration at lights with hard shifts ... Was going to drain it again next weekend to see what it looks like, but I'll read up on the below as well ... Thanks again.

 

[Burla]

So no I didn't have any problem shifting prior to the first time that I changed it The only reason I changed it is because I didn't know when anyone had done a service on it last and I know that the interval was every 60,000 mi and I had had it for well over 60,000 miles. I agree that there's definitely an underlying issue that I have to find and it almost would seem like I'm getting an engine oil in there because again my engine oil was low which is never happened before in previous oil changes. So that's what I was going to try to research and find but I figured I would come here to see if anybody else had ever experienced anything like that before going down the rabbit hole of YouTube and online forums. I do not think that it is coolant because again I didn't lose any coolant and the orange OAT coolant that the truck has is still very orange in the surge tank. In 22 years in the army as a mechanic I've never seen anything like that to be that color. I've seen the strawberry milkshake and all this other stuff but I've never seen this particular color. It was definitely red when it went in and coming out like chocolate milk makes me think that maybe it has a bunch of aeration but I don't know I'm not a subject matter expert in this

That's a hard one because yes usually strawberry, but if you add 8 quarts red to 6 quarts green/brown, would you still see the strawberry, dunno possible I guess. All this because the zf OEM is green. I don't think the atf 4 is the issue here. If you can drive something else? you can send a sample of that somewhere, test is for moly or zinc, which would tell you if it was engine oil or coolant that mixed. they have oil and coolant test labs as I'm sure you know.

what did it smell like? do you still have it or dump it?

 

[mjohnson05261984]

That's a hard one because yes usually strawberry, but if you add 8 quarts red to 6 quarts green/brown, would you still see the strawberry, dunno possible I guess. All this because the zf OEM is green. I don't think the atf 4 is the issue here. If you can drive something else? you can send a sample of that somewhere, test is for moly or zinc, which would tell you if it was engine oil or coolant that mixed. they have oil and coolant test labs as I'm sure you know.

For sure yes ... Also a geaT idea there too so I can figure it out

 

[Burla]

Its always the timing of these things that throw off theories right, if not for you just changing it my guess would have been a radiator issue mixing it, find a cooler diagram and see what you can find.

 

[mjohnson05261984]

Its always the timing of these things that throw off theories right, if not for you just changing it my guess would have been a radiator issue mixing it, find a cooler diagram and see what you can find.

Absolutely... I'll search for that now ... I have a factory repair manual I bought .... I'll pour through it and see what I can come up with.

 

[mjohnson05261984]

Absolutely... I'll search for that now ... I have a factory repair manual I bought .... I'll pour through it and see what I can come up with.