RevMax 8 speed thermostat bypass

[Wild one]

I assume the two black fittings you refer to are the ones seen in post #452.
OK that means that cooled fluid does return to the manifold that sits between the transmission and the heating unit. This fluid must make it into the transmission during HOT conditions through the O-ringed "inflow" tube without being contaminated with warmed fluid from the heating side of the device. I can only guess that this happens because when the system is >180 that bottom orifice at 9 O-clock is closed off and the fluid flow to the heater is now in a static state. Somewhere down flow from the heating element there must be a convergence of fluid coming from the heater and fluid coming from the cooler. When the system is cold the cooler fluid is static because the thermostat is blocking flow to the cooler ( via upper orifice at 6 O-clock ) and allowing flow from the heater ( via lower orifice at 9 O-clock. At this point fluid flow from the heater is active. The reverse occurs when fluid is >180 degrees. That being, fluid flow from the heater is static and fluid flow from the cooler is active.
I don't think that the thermostat has an instantaneous capability so at some intermediate temperatures I suspect the transmission fluid will actually be a mix of warmed and cooled fluid.
Would all that I have said be accurate?

Man you gotta go pull your thermal unit off and take it apart.I think once you have it in your hands it'll be obvious to you how it works.It's not rocket science,but you're sure making it out to be.Of course it's going to mix hot and cold fluid at mid thermostat opening. Look at Khristophers photo and look at the photo's already posted,and it's pretty easy to see how the fluid path works. All it is,is a bypass thermostat with a heat exchanger,when cold the fluid is bypassed through the heat exchanger to be heated,then flows back into the transmission,when hot the thermostat is open closing off the path to the heat exchanger,forcing the fluid to bypass the heat exchanger and directing it to the cooler in the top of the A/C condensor,any thermostat opening in between full closed and full open is going to mix the hot fluid and the cool fluid to some extent,but you have to remember the fluid will always take the path of least resistance,so as soon as the thermostat is off it's seat,it'll be generally favoring the heat exchanger,more then the cooler. Now go crawl under your truck and unbolt your thermal unit,so you have it in your hands,and are actually looking at it,as soon as you're looking at it,in your hand,you'll see exactly how it works,and it'll save a ****load of typing,lol

 

[clint440]

For the guys who'd like to maintain a certain temp,you could easily plumb a stand alone bypass thermostat into the cooler lines. They make these in several differant operating temps,the first 2 are tranny and diff specific .

High-Flow Engine & Transmission Oil Cooler Thermostat (improvedracing.com)

So to use that, would you eliminate the thermal device? Seems that would be the simplest way. The AGS acts like a thermal control unit anyways so I don't see the point of the water/thermal device when the HDs and Challengers don't use it. I Might be missing something...

 

[Different Drummer]

OK, I will stop with the questions. But, let me say this, you are answering questions that I am not asking and explaining things that I do in fact understand. Wild man, you mention two black fittings but along with it in the same post you show a photo of the two tubes with black O-rings.
I am just trying to get very accurate information.
One of the reasons is I am trying to understand how RevMax can claim a reduction in Temp. by simply removing the thermostat. This would allow the hot transmission fluid exiting the transmission to have two paths to travel. SOME of the fluid would head out to the cooler. However, some would travel right back into the transmission through the heater. The transmission fluid would certainly retain a good deal of heat as it made its way back into the transmission, and possible pick up more heat from the heater! We don't know if RevMax did any fluid dynamics or flow studies to determine which path would get the highest percentage of flow. Said flow being to the cooler or to the heater circuit. I am trying to get a handle on that dynamic within the thermal control unit. I do in fact understand how the unit works.
The reason Caulks device has such a profound effect on lowering the fluid Temp. is because it turns the system into a cooling only circuit. Furthermore it has no volume / Temp. controlling thermostat in line. So it is full on cooling 100% of the time. This is the same as what RevMax does by removing the thermostat AND installing the blocking plate. Or, what you and Crazy kid have done. Thus RevMax claims a huge reduction in Temp. which is certainly plausible. It is not surprising that Caulks device and the RevMax devices arrive at the same results. I get it.
As you know I do not want to go to that extreme, so I am trying to see if there may be a simpler less invasive way to get a moderate reduction in Temp. ( RevMax claims they do ),
without going through the procedure of installing the device's you mention and have linked to.
I have simply been seeking information to possibly come up with a plan that will not lower the Temps. so severely.
RevMax describes two options for lowering the Transmission Temps. "slightly" with one and 20 degrees with the other. If this is in fact true I would be happy with a 20 degree reduction. There are relatively simple ways to duplicate what they do.
I have studied their website, the products they are involved with certainly are not unsophisticated in nature. I cannot imagine that they would market a device and make claims about same device that cannot be substantiated via testing and verification procedures. Not to mention liability issues.
I don't know, maybe they do put products to market without proving the operational results before hand. I have no way of knowing. So, I try to educate myself as best I can on an independent basis. You guys have torn these things apart and played with them so this thread is but one resource to utilize.
I have enough information now. I hope Caulk will keep the thread posted as to what his Temps. are when the weather is warmer and perhaps on a longer road trip scenario.

 

[Wild one]

So to use that, would you eliminate the thermal device? Seems that would be the simplest way. The AGS acts like a thermal control unit anyways so I don't see the point of the water/thermal device when the HDs and Challengers don't use it. I Might be missing something...

You can delete the heat exchanger completely if you want,like Khristopher and i did.All you have to do is plug the holes feeding it.I used 5/16"NC set screws as they're just about a perfect fit.Holes you want to plug are these ones with the o-rings.Bottom pic is them blocked off with set screws and a little JB Weld

 

[Different Drummer]

So to use that, would you eliminate the thermal device? Seems that would be the simplest way. The AGS acts like a thermal control unit anyways so I don't see the point of the water/thermal device when the HDs and Challengers don't use it. I Might be missing something...

The problem with the 1500's is you still need a way to get the fluid into and out of the transmission. It is accomplished via those two tubes with the O-rings that connect the thermal control unit to the transmission. The HD trucks are threaded at the two entry /exit points in the transmission. The transmission lines thread directly into those threads using the proper fittings.
Unless you wanted to get into trying to tap and thread those openings you will need to retain at least a portion of the thermal control unit. And also would need to modify it as Crazy kid and Wild one have done.

Edit: OOPS! Locks like Wild one and I were typing at the same time.

 

[Wild one]

OK, I will stop with the questions. But, let me say this, you are answering questions that I am not asking and explaining things that I do in fact understand. Wild man, you mention two black fittings but along with it in the same post you show a photo of the two tubes with black O-rings.
I am just trying to get very accurate information.
One of the reasons is I am trying to understand how RevMax can claim a reduction in Temp. by simply removing the thermostat. This would allow the hot transmission fluid exiting the transmission to have two paths to travel. SOME of the fluid would head out to the cooler. However, some would travel right back into the transmission through the heater. The transmission fluid would certainly retain a good deal of heat as it made its way back into the transmission, and possible pick up more heat from the heater! We don't know if RevMax did any fluid dynamics or flow studies to determine which path would get the highest percentage of flow. Said flow being to the cooler or to the heater circuit. I am trying to get a handle on that dynamic within the thermal control unit. I do in fact understand how the unit works.
The reason Caulks device has such a profound effect on lowering the fluid Temp. is because it turns the system into a cooling only circuit. Furthermore it has no volume / Temp. controlling thermostat in line. So it is full on cooling 100% of the time. This is the same as what RevMax does by removing the thermostat AND installing the blocking plate. Or, what you and Crazy kid have done. Thus RevMax claims a huge reduction in Temp. which is certainly plausible. It is not surprising that Caulks device and the RevMax devices arrive at the same results. I get it.
As you know I do not want to go to that extreme, so I am trying to see if there may be a simpler less invasive way to get a moderate reduction in Temp. ( RevMax claims they do ),
without going through the procedure of installing the device's you mention and have linked to.
I have simply been seeking information to possibly come up with a plan that will not lower the Temps. so severely.
RevMax describes two options for lowering the Transmission Temps. "slightly" with one and 20 degrees with the other. If this is in fact true I would be happy with a 20 degree reduction. There are relatively simple ways to duplicate what they do.
I have studied their website, the products they are involved with certainly are not unsophisticated in nature. I cannot imagine that they would market a device and make claims about same device that cannot be substantiated via testing and verification procedures. Not to mention liability issues.
I don't know, maybe they do put products to market without proving the operational results before hand. I have no way of knowing. So, I try to educate myself as best I can on an independent basis. You guys have torn these things apart and played with them so this thread is but one resource to utilize.
I have enough information now. I hope Caulk will keep the thread posted as to what his Temps. are when the weather is warmer and perhaps on a longer road trip scenario.

Alot of your questions are very redundant,it seems like we've answered the same questions several times DD,lol. I'm usually very patient,but you're starting to stretch my patience levels,as alot of this is just common sense,and shouldn't be hard to wrap your head around.The principle is the same as pretty well any other bypass thermostat ever built,the thermostat either sends the fluid to a cooler or sends it back to the source,and in this case when it sends it back to the originating source it's routed through a heat exchanger on it's way back to the source

 

[crazykid1994]

OK, I will stop with the questions. But, let me say this, you are answering questions that I am not asking and explaining things that I do in fact understand. Wild man, you mention two black fittings but along with it in the same post you show a photo of the two tubes with black O-rings.
I am just trying to get very accurate information.
One of the reasons is I am trying to understand how RevMax can claim a reduction in Temp. by simply removing the thermostat. This would allow the hot transmission fluid exiting the transmission to have two paths to travel. SOME of the fluid would head out to the cooler. However, some would travel right back into the transmission through the heater. The transmission fluid would certainly retain a good deal of heat as it made its way back into the transmission, and possible pick up more heat from the heater! We don't know if RevMax did any fluid dynamics or flow studies to determine which path would get the highest percentage of flow. Said flow being to the cooler or to the heater circuit. I am trying to get a handle on that dynamic within the thermal control unit. I do in fact understand how the unit works.
The reason Caulks device has such a profound effect on lowering the fluid Temp. is because it turns the system into a cooling only circuit. Furthermore it has no volume / Temp. controlling thermostat in line. So it is full on cooling 100% of the time. This is the same as what RevMax does by removing the thermostat AND installing the blocking plate. Or, what you and Crazy kid have done. Thus RevMax claims a huge reduction in Temp. which is certainly plausible. It is not surprising that Caulks device and the RevMax devices arrive at the same results. I get it.
As you know I do not want to go to that extreme, so I am trying to see if there may be a simpler less invasive way to get a moderate reduction in Temp. ( RevMax claims they do ),
without going through the procedure of installing the device's you mention and have linked to.
I have simply been seeking information to possibly come up with a plan that will not lower the Temps. so severely.
RevMax describes two options for lowering the Transmission Temps. "slightly" with one and 20 degrees with the other. If this is in fact true I would be happy with a 20 degree reduction. There are relatively simple ways to duplicate what they do.
I have studied their website, the products they are involved with certainly are not unsophisticated in nature. I cannot imagine that they would market a device and make claims about same device that cannot be substantiated via testing and verification procedures. Not to mention liability issues.
I don't know, maybe they do put products to market without proving the operational results before hand. I have no way of knowing. So, I try to educate myself as best I can on an independent basis. You guys have torn these things apart and played with them so this thread is but one resource to utilize.
I have enough information now. I hope Caulk will keep the thread posted as to what his Temps. are when the weather is warmer and perhaps on a longer road trip scenario.

Rev max cannot reduce temps without using their entire kit. Removing only the thermostat actually yields higher than stock temps because nothing blocks fluid from going to the heater. I know because I did that originally and hit 185° pretty quickly and temps were still climbing. Only installing the blockoff plate and not removing the thermostat will not allow fluid to the cooler and would cause the transmission to burn up from lack of fluid flow. Rev max needs to redo their instructions for their kit.

 

[Wild one]

Rev max cannot reduce temps without using their entire kit. Removing only the thermostat actually yields higher than stock temps because nothing blocks fluid from going to the heater. I know because I did that originally and hit 185° pretty quickly and temps were still climbing. Only installing the blockoff plate and not removing the thermostat will not allow fluid to the cooler and would cause the transmission to burn up from lack of fluid flow. Rev max needs to redo their instructions for their kit.

I'm on my 2nd review on their site telling them that Khristopher,the first review seems to have disappeared,making me wonder if my 2nd one will also disappear,lol

 

[crazykid1994]

I'm on my 2nd review on their site telling them that Khristopher,the first review seems to have disappeared,making me wonder if my 2nd one will also disappear,lol

I spoke to somebody through email and notified them about that. Told them I removed the thermostat and my temps were the same or higher and they told me that in order to lower temps you actually have to install the entire kit.
so they are aware but don’t seem to care. I would honestly be worried to run with just the thermostat removed over a long trip.

 

[Different Drummer]

I spoke to somebody through email and notified them about that. Told them I removed the thermostat and my temps were the same or higher and they told me that in order to lower temps you actually have to install the entire kit.
so they are aware but don’t seem to care. I would honestly be worried to run with just the thermostat removed over a long trip.

Thanks, I did not realize that anyone had experimented by running the RevMax equipment in all three of the suggested configurations.
A question unanswered is what the fluid dynamics are if you remove the thermostat. i.e.
more fluid to heater? More fluid to cooler? equal fluid flow to heater and cooler?

Also, the real world results if the thermostat is removed AND the heat source to the heater is removed? So far every procedure has removed the heat exchanger totally from the equation. and forced 100% flow to go to the cooler. I do not think that allowing the fluid to take its normal path through the heater when there is no source of heat and at the same time removing the thermostat has been tried. What happens in the fluid flow above would have an effect on that.
I can work on that in the future. No need to belabor.

 

[Wild one]

I give up

 

[clint440]

You can delete the heat exchanger completely if you want,like Khristopher and i did.All you have to do is plug the holes feeding it.I used 5/16"NC set screws as they're just about a perfect fit.Holes you want to plug are these ones with the o-rings.Bottom pic is them blocked off with set screws and a little JB Weld

View attachment 237571

View attachment 237572

Got it, did some reading of this massive thread of pioneers.

So if I understand right you opted to just plug the holes in lieu of using the spendy REV-MAX block-off plate. So what's not quite clear to me is do you remove the thermostat or leave it intact? I'm uncertain if it's function is necessary for the proper flow to the tranny cooler?

 

[Wild one]

Got it, did some reading of this massive thread of pioneers.

So if I understand right you opted to just plug the holes in lieu of using the spendy REV-MAX block-off plate. So what's not quite clear to me is do you remove the thermostat or leave it intact? I'm uncertain if it's function is necessary for the proper flow to the tranny cooler?

You have to remove the thermostat completely Clint if you run the block off plate or plug the holes and completely delete the heat exchanger,as there'd be no flow past the thermostat.That's where you could install a stand alone bypass thermostat if you thought the transmission was running to cold or taking to long to warm up.Improved racing has 2 that would work good,one stabilizes at an advertised temp of 145 which for me would be the one i'd pick,and the other one stabilizes at an advertised 165.Either would be better then the factories 180 thermostat though.

High-Flow Engine & Transmission Oil Cooler Thermostat (improvedracing.com)

 

[caulk04]

Removing the thermostat and plugging the holes as a couple of these guys have done would function, thermally, the same as my valve. It's more work, but if you were so inclined you could physically remove the heater portion altogether.

You could argue that there's less restriction by removing it completely, but with some quick calculations in my head there's more flow around my valve than there could be through the lines and other existing ports. Certainly more than the factory thermostat allows.

 

[HTXRamExp]

Removing the thermostat and plugging the holes as a couple of these guys have done would function, thermally, the same as my valve. It's more work, but if you were so inclined you could physically remove the heater portion altogether.

You could argue that there's less restriction by removing it completely, but with some quick calculations in my head there's more flow around my valve than there could be through the lines and other existing ports. Certainly more than the factory thermostat allows.

Your machined piece is definitely an elegant solution and has me interested. I'm down in Texas and aside from this current outlier winter weather, never really gets all that cold. Very curious to see how your temps react in more mild weather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[crazykid1994]

Thanks, I did not realize that anyone had experimented by running the RevMax equipment in all three of the suggested configurations.
A question unanswered is what the fluid dynamics are if you remove the thermostat. i.e.
more fluid to heater? More fluid to cooler? equal fluid flow to heater and cooler?

Also, the real world results if the thermostat is removed AND the heat source to the heater is removed? So far every procedure has removed the heat exchanger totally from the equation. and forced 100% flow to go to the cooler. I do not think that allowing the fluid to take its normal path through the heater when there is no source of heat and at the same time removing the thermostat has been tried. What happens in the fluid flow above would have an effect on that.
I can work on that in the future. No need to belabor.

That’s been done as well. It’ll run about 145° under normal driving conditions in ambient temps in the 60s and 70s. No telling with temps higher because nothing restricts fluid flow through the heater. That is the path of least resistance so the hotter the fluid gets the more likely it is to go through the heater assembly. Same thing with only removing the thermostat. The hotter the fluid the more it wants to go through the heater path because it’s easier to flow that way. That’s why when I only did the thermostat removal the fluid temp kept climbing past 185°.

 

[Wild one]

Your machined piece is definitely an elegant solution and has me interested. I'm down in Texas and aside from this current outlier winter weather, never really gets all that cold. Very curious to see how your temps react in more mild weather.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jesse's piece would be the way i'd go,if i was doing it over again.Crazy Kid and i had already done the plug holes /delete the heat exchanger,before Jesse had his replacement valve in production. Way cheaper then the Rev Max kit,and a whole lot easier to do then the way CK and i did it.The only advantage to deleting the exchanger is it cleans up the side of the transmission alot,and gets rid of another leak point

 

[clint440]

Removing the thermostat and plugging the holes as a couple of these guys have done would function, thermally, the same as my valve. It's more work, but if you were so inclined you could physically remove the heater portion altogether.

You could argue that there's less restriction by removing it completely, but with some quick calculations in my head there's more flow around my valve than there could be through the lines and other existing ports. Certainly more than the factory thermostat allows.

I've been following your thread and your slick invention. Do you have enough seat time to know what your temps are now?

 

[caulk04]

So far the ambient temperature have been consistent 20-30 and I haven't had any long drives, mostly just my commute. 22 miles, 30 minutes. Temps 115 give or take a few.

Yesterday I was running some errands around town and was out for about 90 minutes bouncing around a few stores. Trans was 126 when I got back home.

 

[crazykid1994]

So far the ambient temperature have been consistent 20-30 and I haven't had any long drives, mostly just my commute. 22 miles, 30 minutes. Temps 115 give or take a few.

Yesterday I was running some errands around town and was out for about 90 minutes bouncing around a few stores. Trans was 126 when I got back home.

What are your ambient temps currently. My ambient temps have been mid 70°f to mid 80°f and my trans temp sits around 125-130°. We hit upper 80s and I saw 132°f trans temp was my max after doing a quick pull and it dropped back to 129° pretty quickly.