TT Towing advice 2014 2500 CTD

[jadocs]

Hey guys, I'm a complete towing newb, and have a dumb question, so apologies up front.

I purchased this truck to tow a TT. The plan is to get the largest TT that I can safely tow.

What are the benefits over a 5th wheel vs off the hitch? I assume a 5th wheel would be more stable?

Can I tow more if I install a 5th wheel hitch? (My assumption is no, and it would just be more stable?).

Based on your experience, what would be the max weight/size you would tow with a 2014 2500HD CTD? (I have a family of five), and would you do hitch mounted or 5th wheel?

Apologies again and thanks

 

[granite14]

Hey guys, I'm a complete towing newb, and have a dumb question, so apologies up front.

If your a newb, its good to ask all the questions before buying!

I purchased this truck to tow a TT. The plan is to get the largest TT that I can safely tow.

I must say that I would have never done this. At least you have plenty of truck. I paid my tuition to towing school through the upgrade cycle. 15ft TT, 19ft TT, 31 ft TT. I learned a lot about how to tow and plan routes/gas, and I would STILL have a learning curve going over to a 5th wheel.

What are the benefits over a 5th wheel vs off the hitch? I assume a 5th wheel would be more stable?

I've not pulled both, but any search, people will tell you its more stable. I wish I had a 5th wheel, but I've always been reserving that bed space for a motorcycle to bring camping, although it hasn't happened yet.

Based on your experience, what would be the max weight/size you would tow with a 2014 2500HD CTD? (I have a family of five), and would you do hitch mounted or 5th wheel?

Go over to the Ram site and play around with their slider. Ram Trucks - Towing Capacity Chart. I would tell you to go with the 5th wheel though based on my experience of having a 31ft trailer there is more to deal with for overall length and sway... if you can find one in your weight range. With a family of five, depending on their weight, you might have under 2000lbs payload, and the hitch weight, and the pin will eat much of that up, so it leaves you room for a 15K lb towing. Like I said, I'm not a 5th wheeler, but I get into specs.

 

[audio1der]

From my comerades on Keystone forums, they tell me it's two primary reasons for a 5'er over a bu,per pull:
a) Stability when towing
b) Floorplans
Backing up a 5'er is supposed to be tricky (but you get accustomed to it) but if you have the truck for it, and you do, there should not be any downside.
You've made a wise investment in your safety, and towing pleasure. There is nothing worse than wondering if you have too much trailer while it is pushing the truck around, and you're supposed to be enjoying yourself en route to vacation.
If you take the same approach to trailer shopping as you did the truck, you'll be pleased for a long time.

 

[jadocs]

Granite and audio,

Thanks so much guys for the great advice and input! I really appreciate it. I was kind of worried that I should have gotten a 3500HD CTD.

Thank you very much for that link. That is very helpful.

 

[granite14]

No problem. I was curious myself on the 5th wheel. I see this Keystone Hideout (I have a Hideout 31BHS), and this one has a hitch weight of 1845 and a hitch of ~200 lbs might put you at the payload limit well before you run out of tow capacity (I'm not sure the exact configuration of your truck)

Specs for 308BHDS - NEW
Shipping Weight 9235
Carrying Capacity 1410
Hitch 1845

That said, if you find the you don't make the specs work on the 5'er, the bumper pull is still great. I do it. I've gone half way cross country with mine, over mountain passes, on narrow twisty roads, you name it.

I had a Duramax previously and it seemed like it was more stable than the Ram, but I think the Ram is just generally a little rougher riding, and I need to get used to it, as I feel everything more in the Ram. I noticed that coffee is coming out of the cups because the truck suspension is much more stiffer than my old ride. I might upgrade my hitch though, right now I have a spring bar system, probably low end, because its left over from my 19ft trailer.

edit: been looking around, and it seems there are lighter weight 5'er options out there too.

 

[jadocs]

Thanks granite!

I was just looking at the same thing. If I'm reading the calculator correctly, I think I'm going to be limited to a 1400lb pin weight? (Factoring in 200lbs for the hitch and 90lbs for misc/fuel to be safe?)

 

[jadocs]

Just wanted to say thanks again. I've learned so much and at least I know how to narrow down my choices. I also appreciate your real world experience with the rear hitch. That gives me more piece of mind if I can't find a suitable 5th wheel.

 

[mtofell]

OP: Great to be asking questions and there are no dumb ones.

I've towed 5th wheels and TT with several different trucks and can tell you there is a wealth of knowledge out there to familiarize yourself with to be totally comfortable with.

In a nutshell, here are the key points as I see them:

A 2500 series truck (especially a diesel) is capable of pulling just about any TT but is somewhat limited for 5th wheels. This is because of the tongue weight of the TT vs. the pin weight of the 5th. A TT drops about 10-12% of its weight on the receiver hitch while a 5th wheel drops about 20% of it's weight on the hitch in the bed. Of course, you don't have to be an engineer to do the calculations - in rough terms, your truck can haul 2X the TT vs. 5th...... at least as far as hitch/pin weight is concerned. These numbers are all just focused on payload (the truck + people in the truck + gear in the truck + hitch/pin weight). There are also other numbers such as max combined weight (truck + payload + trailer) which is essentially the weight of everything you have rolling.

Really, it's a big numbers games. The manufacturers love to throw out big numbers to make you buy their trucks but when you read the fine print you'll see it's not so pretty. But, don't panic.... you have A LOT of truck. Guys in 1/2 Tundras are the ones who are REALLY bumming when this topic comes up.

Basically, buy whatever TT you want. A 32' triple slide TT is at most 14000# which is 1400-1700 on your tongue. That still leaves you roughly 1000# to pack things in the truck (and the Cummins will easily pull it). If you go the 5th wheel route you'll be much more limited. An 8000# 5th wheel could put the same weight on the truck payload-wise.

The 2014 2500 Ram should have a 10,000# GVWR (truck+hitch/pin weight+people+stored items in truck). The truck should weigh no more than 7500# so that leaves you with 2500# to load up with people, hitch/pin weight+gear in the truck.

Keep poking around internet forums and you'll quickly become an expert. Checkout RV "tow vehicles" forum for some real education.

You have plenty of truck to haul a super nice TT or 5th down the highway. Enjoy!!!

 

[Poleclimber]

I would say from my experience a 5th wheel is the only way to go. My last camper was a 28ft tt and it pulled well but backing it in at the campground was a little tricky. My new camper is a 34ft 5th wheel and it pulls better and is a lot easier to maneuver in the campground. I'd never go back to a tt after owning a 5th wheel. A other advantage is u can pull something behind a 5th wheel like a small boat or trailer. Might be something to consider...

 

[jadocs]

Thanks guys, excellent points.

 

[mtofell]

I would say from my experience a 5th wheel is the only way to go. My last camper was a 28ft tt and it pulled well but backing it in at the campground was a little tricky. My new camper is a 34ft 5th wheel and it pulls better and is a lot easier to maneuver in the campground. I'd never go back to a tt after owning a 5th wheel. A other advantage is u can pull something behind a 5th wheel like a small boat or trailer. Might be something to consider...

The TT vs. 5th wheel is a common debate and it ultimately just comes down to personal preference. After towing both I can say backing them up is different but I can't say one is easier or harder..... at least to me it wasn't. It is true the 5th generally tows more stable due to the weight being in the bed directly over the wheels.

I like the floor plans for the 5th better and like the way it tows and if I was able to get out more I'd go back to one. What I don't like is having to empty out my entire pickup bed every time I go somewhere. With the TT I just back up, hook-up the hitch and go.

Also, the laws about pulling a 2nd trailer vary by state and many don't allow it. I've never heard of any difference between a TT and 5th allowing or not allowing it but it's possible.

 

[jadocs]

Yeah I hear you on the floor plans for a 5th, although there are some pretty nice TT's that I have seen as well. I'm kind of in the situation, "buy once, cry once", but I want to ensure that it's safe and get the most trailer that I can get.

While I continue my search, can anyone recommend certain brands to stay away from, and which to consider? (either 5th or TT). I want to ensure I get something that will last, but assume there will be trade offs with pin weight.

 

[mtofell]

I want to ensure I get something that will last

Kind of an oxymoron with RVs. In general consumer level RVs are, IMO, junk. I work with houses for a living and am used to building things right and strong. RVs are just a given level of disappointment (at least compared to a house). There are brands that are better but they are still not going to last 100 years like a house will.

I played around with a few used trailers and did okay. The one I'm in now I bought new about a year ago and it definitely has problems.... but it also has a warranty so my biggest problem is just hauling it to the dealer to be fixed.

I've owned 4 different RVs over the last 10 years and my advice would be either plan on fixing it yourself, pay someone to fix it or buy something newer that has a warranty.


I don't mean to be a total downer on RVs but I don't want to paint a rosie picture. They are relatively cheaply made and things can and will break.

IMO some good brands based on talking to fellow RVers and reading on message boards (and owning a few):

Arctic Fox
Nash
Sunline
Aljo
Nomad
Holiday Rambler

For mainstream brands I'd say Jayco is the best. Forest River, Fleetwood and Keystone are about equally average (I currently own a Forest River).

You'll find there are only a handful of large manufacturers that each have numerous product lines. Kind of like the old VCR analogy where there are a couple companies making them and dozens of brand names.

As your researching watch out the for the, "Brand *** is the best in the world. I've owned one for 10 years without a problem" guy. Some people are just lucky. Poke around a few RV message boards and you'll quickly get an idea of what brands are good, which are bad and which are just so/so. IMO, the so/so brands are the main stream ones that tend to be the easiest to find and are the most affordable. It's kind of like a marriage..... an acceptance of certain problems (my wife doesn't read message boards so I'm safe writing this )

 

[loveracing1988]

Also, the laws about pulling a 2nd trailer vary by state and many don't allow it. I've never heard of any difference between a TT and 5th allowing or not allowing it but it's possible.

Michigan at least used to be that way, I don't know if it still is or not but there were some requirements for pulling two trailers.
It must be a 5th wheel as the first trailer, the safety chains on the 2nd trailer had to form a continuous loop, and you had to have a recreational dpuble endorsement on your license.

 

[CDN Ram]

While I continue my search, can anyone recommend certain brands to stay away from, and which to consider? (either 5th or TT).

This question is a virtual explosion waiting to happen, everyone will pipe in with their two cents on this subject and rightfully so, everyone has had their own experience with theirs and other RVs.

My advise to you would be what I did to answer this question for myself. As you are already at dealerships looking at RVs, look at the used lot at as many diffferent dealership as you can at trailer 5 years old or more, you will always find to few beat up trailers in any brand, cause some poeple jsut don't look after their stuff, but I will guarantee you that certain brand will all be in bad condition, just beacause they are poorly constructred. Use the info you get from these viewings to help decide which brands hold up over time. The more used older unit you look at the better your knowledge will be in picking the best constructed RVs.

Best of luck and enjoy the process.

 

[jadocs]

Thanks, I've been doing some research on "extended stay" RVs, as those seem to be better constructed (heavier quality materials), but as mentioned there is a trade off with hitch weights and size.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond!

In a perfect world (if I had to do this again), I would research and choose the RV first, then get the truck that will meet the specifications to safely tow it.

The search continues. I will definitely take my time and not jump into anything.

 

[jadocs]

So running the numbers a little more and thinking about it, I think a 5ver is not going to work. Let me know what you guys think of my math/logic.

I looked up my vehicle by VIN and the max payload is 2,291lbs. (which leaves me towing 14,809lbs)

2,291 (max payload)
- 700 (family of 5)
- 220 (31 gallons diesel)
- 250 (hitch)
- 50 (misc)

This leaves me a pin weight of 1,071lbs

If I were able to find a 5th wheel with a 1,000lb pin weight, I am sure the quality and nice floor plans would not be there. So I think the prudent thing to do is get a nice big bumper pull which would leave me with a pin weight of 1,321 off the bumper (after adding the 250 back in for the fifth wheel hitch).

Does that sound about right to you guys, or do you think I'm be in overly cautious?

 

[BigAlH]

I recently upgraded (well, "downgraded"?) from a 2004 3500 dually CTD to a 2014 2500 6.4 Hemi. We sold our 5th wheel so I downsized.

I would definitely say that a 5th wheel is easier to tow and gives you more options for floor plan etc. While towing with the 3500 was nice, the beast of the dually was a pain when not towing. It was very stiff with nothing in the bed, so it wasn't the most comfortable to drive. Also a pain to park as it is so wide etc.

The 2500 should be fine to tow just about anything you want. My neighbor tows a 35 foot toybox 5th wheel with his Chevy 2500 short bed with no problem - and the Cummins will be far better than the Chevy.

Since you are starting out, one thing I'd recommend is to not start with a HUGE trailer. We started with a light weight Coachmen with our 1500 way back when. IMO it is best to start with something not too big to learn the ropes etc. Unless you are going to be a full timer right out of gate, something with a single slideout is good to start. Ours was just under 30 feet long with a single slide.

My biggest advice is to get a trailer that has the mid-kitchen. The back of the trailer bounces/moves around the most and having the kitchen (and hence the dishes) in the back isn't the best. We learned this the hard way with our first trailer. Having the kitchen over the axles is ideal.

Good luck!

-al

 

[jadocs]

Al thanks for the tips, I'm a little worried about going over max payload though. I have to assume that there is a reason for it?

When I used to drive a F250 with tow package, I know the only difference between that and a F350 was a taller block. So I'm not sure of the difference between a 2014 2500 and a 3500 (besides the Aisin Transmisstion, and rear leaf springs?).

The purpose of the TT would be to pack up the kids during summer break and explore the country, so there would be extended driving.

 

[loveracing1988]

Al thanks for the tips, I'm a little worried about going over max payload though. I have to assume that there is a reason for it?

When I used to drive a F250 with tow package, I know the only difference between that and a F350 was a taller block. So I'm not sure of the difference between a 2014 2500 and a 3500 (besides the Aisin Transmisstion, and rear leaf springs?).

The purpose of the TT would be to pack up the kids during summer break and explore the country, so there would be extended driving.

Your numbers are a little off.
The payload included a full load of fuel and a driver ( I want to say 180 lbs for the driver) so you can add those numbers to your available payload.
The differences now are a different frame to accommodate the coil springs in the 2500's and the leaf springs on the 3500's. They both have available air suspension but the 3500's have it as helpers to help level it and the 2500's the air bags replace the coil springs.
Thr Aisin trans is available on the 3500's but not standard.