Vehicle vibration

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Conflict2

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I was wondering may be causing my vehicle vibration. It happens right after I reach 68 mph. I have new tires, and they've been rotated and balanced like 6 or 7 times now so I don't think it's the wheels. I changed my front wheel hub assemblies, my rear axel bearings were fine. My next step would be replacing the U-joints on my drive shaft. The vibration is really weird too, it's the whole vehicle, comes and goes. Doesn't get better with braking, accelerating, turning, towing, engine speed etc., and sometimes it stops for a few minutes then comes back. It's not a major vibration, but it's definitely noticeable when I go from my wifes car to my truck. It's a constant vibration as well. It's in my seat and steering wheel, the whole truck just vibrates. What other causes are there, and how can I tell what the issue even is? I.E. how do I troubleshoot a vibration. I can't tell where it may be coming from at this point. Suspension, engine mounts, transmission? Any and all help is appriciated and welcomed. Thank you, and sorry for the long read.
 

Wild one

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Did you ever slide it into a ditch or curb ,as the axles have been known to bend under the right conditions.But usually a bent axle causes a constant vibration,but if you've checked everything else with nothing obvious leaping out at you,you could check the axles for run-out
 

Ron Boggio

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I had this happen with a set of "Continental" tires couple years back. 67 MPH a vibration would start that literally rattled my eye balls. Like you have described I tried all of the things you tried. I got to the point I was rotating the spare onto each corner of the vehicle. One of the tires once removed improved the situation significantly, although the tire itself would balance just fine, no broken belts or high spots. However the vibration persisted just not as drastic. I started moving the tires around the truck i.e. 4 at a time. LF to LR to RR to RF etc. I ended up buying a new set of tires i.e. Goodyear RS-A's The vibration almost went away, it was initially so small if you didn't know better you would think it was a tire balance issue.

At this point I was really annoyed so I bought a EVA Tool (Electronic Vibration Analysis) and found at 67MPH I had 1st order 3rd and 4th order vibration that would come together in resonance at 67 MPH. Long story short the left front ball joints, both upper and lower had movement in them. They had not failed per the spec however they did have movement as well the left lower control arm had a dry rotted bushing. The bushing had not failed but there was perceptible movement with a short bar.

I suspected this was a corner case i.e. when a specific set of circumstance come together to present a problem. I replaced the upper ball joint and drove, I replaced the lower ball joint and drove, now the vibration was gone. Keep in mind the ball joints did not present as failed, worn yes failed no. I replaced the bushing and the attitude of the suspension changed dramatically.

I wish I still had the Continentals to put back on but.......... Needless to say it was the combination of those three worn but not failed parts allowing the "wheel" to vibrate at 67MPH. It was not a "tire" issue at all.

I am not saying this is your problem however its worth investigating.

I am curious to hear what you find out. The incident above was a pain the A** to figure out. I would be totally shocked if you had the same problem. If you were to have the same condition I would know its not as corner case as I initially thought.
 

indept

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I had this happen with a set of "Continental" tires couple years back. 67 MPH a vibration would start that literally rattled my eye balls. Like you have described I tried all of the things you tried. I got to the point I was rotating the spare onto each corner of the vehicle. One of the tires once removed improved the situation significantly, although the tire itself would balance just fine, no broken belts or high spots. However the vibration persisted just not as drastic. I started moving the tires around the truck i.e. 4 at a time. LF to LR to RR to RF etc. I ended up buying a new set of tires i.e. Goodyear RS-A's The vibration almost went away, it was initially so small if you didn't know better you would think it was a tire balance issue.

At this point I was really annoyed so I bought a EVA Tool (Electronic Vibration Analysis) and found at 67MPH I had 1st order 3rd and 4th order vibration that would come together in resonance at 67 MPH. Long story short the left front ball joints, both upper and lower had movement in them. They had not failed per the spec however they did have movement as well the left lower control arm had a dry rotted bushing. The bushing had not failed but there was perceptible movement with a short bar.

I suspected this was a corner case i.e. when a specific set of circumstance come together to present a problem. I replaced the upper ball joint and drove, I replaced the lower ball joint and drove, now the vibration was gone. Keep in mind the ball joints did not present as failed, worn yes failed no. I replaced the bushing and the attitude of the suspension changed dramatically.

I wish I still had the Continentals to put back on but.......... Needless to say it was the combination of those three worn but not failed parts allowing the "wheel" to vibrate at 67MPH. It was not a "tire" issue at all.

I am not saying this is your problem however its worth investigating.

I am curious to hear what you find out. The incident above was a pain the A** to figure out. I would be totally shocked if you had the same problem. If you were to have the same condition I would know its not as corner case as I initially thought.
Which vibration analysis tool did you buy?
 

Gary2

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I believe I also have a similar problem with my 2014 Ram .
I had this happen with a set of "Continental" tires couple years back. 67 MPH a vibration would start that literally rattled my eye balls. Like you have described I tried all of the things you tried. I got to the point I was rotating the spare onto each corner of the vehicle. One of the tires once removed improved the situation significantly, although the tire itself would balance just fine, no broken belts or high spots. However the vibration persisted just not as drastic. I started moving the tires around the truck i.e. 4 at a time. LF to LR to RR to RF etc. I ended up buying a new set of tires i.e. Goodyear RS-A's The vibration almost went away, it was initially so small if you didn't know better you would think it was a tire balance issue.

At this point I was really annoyed so I bought a EVA Tool (Electronic Vibration Analysis) and found at 67MPH I had 1st order 3rd and 4th order vibration that would come together in resonance at 67 MPH. Long story short the left front ball joints, both upper and lower had movement in them. They had not failed per the spec however they did have movement as well the left lower control arm had a dry rotted bushing. The bushing had not failed but there was perceptible movement with a short bar.

I suspected this was a corner case i.e. when a specific set of circumstance come together to present a problem. I replaced the upper ball joint and drove, I replaced the lower ball joint and drove, now the vibration was gone. Keep in mind the ball joints did not present as failed, worn yes failed no. I replaced the bushing and the attitude of the suspension changed dramatically.

I wish I still had the Continentals to put back on but.......... Needless to say it was the combination of those three worn but not failed parts allowing the "wheel" to vibrate at 67MPH. It was not a "tire" issue at all.

I am not saying this is your problem however its worth investigating.

I am curious to hear what you find out. The incident above was a pain the A** to figure out. I would be totally shocked if you had the same problem. If you were to have the same condition I would know its not as corner case as I initially thought.
I believe this is the same situation I had in my 2014 Ram . I installed 35-12.50-20 BFG KO2's and had a vibe that pulsated through the whole truck starting just past 65 mph and had to be on a smooth road to feel. You would have to be going about 67 for like 10-15 seconds and you could feel it start . After doing what you did with the tires , CV shafts, wheel bearings and one upper control arm on a vehicle that had maybe 35,000 miles on it . I replaced the new 69lb tires with a 48 lb Nitto tire and vibe was gone . I seen a you tube video about an app that was designed to locate the vibe and what order it was. By then I was pissed that I needed to spend $400.00 more on an app to find an issue with a truck that new at the time plus after throwing as much money as I already had between parts and mechanics trying to find it . The truck is still in the family so I may get into it again some day . I have seen a new 1500 Ram with the same issue when they installed larger tires and Ram ended up taking it back because they could not figure it out .
 

Ron Boggio

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OT-38792 Electronic Vibration Analysis EVA made by OTC. Its older but it does the job wonderfully and you can pick them up used pretty frugally. I am not sure who came first Kent Moore or OTC but it seems one branded the other. The Kent Moore, way more expensive yet, I couldn't tell you why they are the same unit.
 

Ron Boggio

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I believe I also have a similar problem with my 2014 Ram .

I believe this is the same situation I had in my 2014 Ram . I installed 35-12.50-20 BFG KO2's and had a vibe that pulsated through the whole truck starting just past 65 mph and had to be on a smooth road to feel. You would have to be going about 67 for like 10-15 seconds and you could feel it start . After doing what you did with the tires , CV shafts, wheel bearings and one upper control arm on a vehicle that had maybe 35,000 miles on it . I replaced the new 69lb tires with a 48 lb Nitto tire and vibe was gone . I seen a you tube video about an app that was designed to locate the vibe and what order it was. By then I was pissed that I needed to spend $400.00 more on an app to find an issue with a truck that new at the time plus after throwing as much money as I already had between parts and mechanics trying to find it . The truck is still in the family so I may get into it again some day . I have seen a new 1500 Ram with the same issue when they installed larger tires and Ram ended up taking it back because they could not figure it out .
Couple things to note, My tires were stock size in the door jam. My rims are 20x8, stock as well.

I have had multiple times in my mechanic career, especially when I lived in CA, tire issues like you describe above. A majority of the time, not all, but a majority when that issue presented, we would rotate the tire on the rim in 90 degree increments. A majority of the time that would resolve the issue. Keep in mind this was on non OEM Rims and larger then stock tires. We do the same thing for stock tires and rims yet not nearly as often.

In my situation I did in fact rotate the tires on all 4 rims although I only did 90 degree to each one. There was no perceptible change leading me to believe I was in a rabbit hole following that philosophy.

Thinking about your statement 69lb to 48lb tire resolved the issue would give me pause to consider a torsional vibration or at least in part, a torsional vibration, e.g. a CV axel, engine mount, trans mount etc. It would be interesting to put on a new set of BFG KO2's and see if the issue presented again. Well, put on someone else's BFG just to test. lol
 

Jeepwalker

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I would still focus on your tires. 9x out of 10 that's what it turns out to be, and there are a number of issues that can cause tire vibration. Most tire shops want to get the customer in....then out, and the initial tire balance may not be all that great. Could have been done by the 'new guy' when you bought your tires. And also, tire balancers are supposed to be re-calibrated periodically and many shops don't do it. It takes time to do. I asked at the Walmart I went to a while ago (they did a terrible job balancing) and nobody could remember the last time their balancers were re-calibrated. And the guy doing my tires was clueless. So if a shop re-balanced your tires, I wouldn't put much stock in that.

You need some real troubleshooting. I would go back to the shop and see if they have a Hunter Road Force balancer. That's a TOTL tire balancer made by Hunter ...pretty much the best in the biz. Usually every [good] tire shop has one. But like Walmarts and many discount shops don't. If they don't have one ask if they will reimburse you if you take it to a shop which has one. Or else call the tire mfgr and ask if they have a dealer nearby who has one ...and if you can go there for troubleshooting (on their dime).

This balancer, It puts about 1200# of pressure on your tire with a hydraulically actuated drum as the tire is rotating. That's the secret. There's a sensitive sensor on the drum. It's a sophistocated machine and using sensors and software, it can determine exactly (as your tires are now) what the issues are: Out of roundness (and how much), Out of balance (and how much), Bent rim (and how much), Broken chord (where), etc. After that an experience tech who knows how to use the machine [key words there] should be able to tell you if they found something. Tires can start out pretty round and can change shape after a while too.

Plus, if the tires are just a little out of round (most are a little) this balancer can do a much better job of balancing than most of the balancers in the industry. I always have my tires Road Force balanced. They they ride like butter. The GM garage near me does them pretty reasonably. Every GM dealer has to have one ...probably every Chrysler dealer too. The GM shop by me ONLY installs & balances tires using the Road Force balancer. And they will Rim-Match (remember those words) the tires to the rims too. That important to have familiarity, bc if you go to a shop where they don't use that balancer very often (only for occasional troubleshooting), the tech/s might not REALLY know how to use it properly. It takes training and practice. For instance, there's a major tire dealer near me and they've told me before they really don't know how to use the Road Force Balancer they have ...very well. So you want to ask those questions in advance and make sure you get an experienced tech. Like I say, the GM (and probably Chrysler) shops use them all the time.

That's what I would do. Get to the bottom of things. Also check your shocks for any oil leaks.
 
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Conflict2

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I bought new tires, one because it was their time, and two because of the vibration. I had the vibration before the new tires. I bought the Fuels 305x55R20 from the stock 275 wheels. Vibration was the same. I will have to buy that analyzer and and see what comes up. I have a 2 inch lift, so I replaced my stock upper ball joints with ones that curve and fit the extra height as to not wear the old ones even more. So my upper ball joints are relatively new. As are my wheel hub assembly. Can my lower control arm be a culprit?

When I bought the new tires, they only balanced 2 of the tires, so when I went back they found that one of them was "red" they did use one of those balancing machines where it puts pressure onto the tire to check roundness. Should probably go back and tell em to do all 4...

So far, I should get a vibration tool, balance my tires again, check my shocks, axel run out, anything else that may come to mind? At my wits end with this.
 

jljbtm

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oNE SHOP SAID IT WAS NOT THE TIRES/WHEELS BUT THAT I NEEDED FRONT AXELS AND DIF FOR $3000+
 

Rasworld84

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I bought new tires, one because it was their time, and two because of the vibration. I had the vibration before the new tires. I bought the Fuels 305x55R20 from the stock 275 wheels. Vibration was the same. I will have to buy that analyzer and and see what comes up. I have a 2 inch lift, so I replaced my stock upper ball joints with ones that curve and fit the extra height as to not wear the old ones even more. So my upper ball joints are relatively new. As are my wheel hub assembly. Can my lower control arm be a culprit?

When I bought the new tires, they only balanced 2 of the tires, so when I went back they found that one of them was "red" they did use one of those balancing machines where it puts pressure onto the tire to check roundness. Should probably go back and tell em to do all 4...

So far, I should get a vibration tool, balance my tires again, check my shocks, axel run out, anything else that may come to mind? At my wits end with this.
Did you ever get your vibration resolved?
 
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