2025 1500 RamCharger. Is it an EV?

[mikeru]

You might want to google what a factory replacement Tesla battery pack is going for, installed. $20-30k, depending on the model. This is well documented on Tesla forums, YT, reddit. Ram has already said the replacement battery back for the Ramcharger will be around $25k. And the Lightning extended range battery is $35k.

Sure, no problem...

 

[kdoublep]

I'm not giving up the ICE until they perfect "Mr. Fusion."

 

[bballr4567]

Actually, no. I don't need to.

AND my entire post was regarding the statement about range. I stand by my statements. Physics don't lie. Oh, and By the way, I was rejected from taking Physics 101. They made me take 201 because 101 would have been "way too easy" for me. Yes, my IQ is above 80.

What about range?!? I mean seriously. 700 miles is a LOT for one day. That's 10 hours at 70 MPH.

What about the physics don't make sense to you?

 

[DanAR]

I’m thinking the Ramcharger with a 6 cyl ICE running all the time while a volatile lithium battery powers electric motors - just may be the wrong answer to the question that a lot of couldn't care less about answering anyway.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Actually, no. I don't need to.

AND my entire post was regarding the statement about range. I stand by my statements. Physics don't lie. Oh, and By the way, I was rejected from taking Physics 101. They made me take 201 because 101 would have been "way too easy" for me. Yes, my IQ is above 80.

"They" didn't do you any favors.

Do you hold ICE vehicles to that standard of getting stated fuel economy/range *AT PEAK HP THE ENTIRE TRIP*?

"They say you get 21 mpg on the highway and 395 hp. No way you get that kind of fuel economy making 395 hp." See how stupid that sounds? That's your argument.

 

[jejb]

I’m thinking the Ramcharger with a 6 cyl ICE running all the time while a volatile lithium battery powers electric motors - just may be the wrong answer to the question that a lot of couldn't care less about answering anyway.

The ICE won't run all the time. For most/many, it may not run much at all. If you plug it in at your house and use it mostly for local commuting, running around town, it may not run at all. It's only when the battery pack gets depleted that the ICE will kick in.

 

[PolarisCobra]

My daughter has one of these. It's a 2021 I think, but very similar. It works well for her needs. Clearly a smaller battery and ICE, but the concept is similar.

Electric range is more like 20 - 25 miles, but it's seamless when the ICE kicks in, has been reliable and drives very much like any other car.

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[Mb7640]

Wondering if you would ever have to plug it in or can you let it idle and charge the battery. I live in a townhouse and can not have at home charging. If I never have to plug it in and it actually works it could be good.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Wondering if you would ever have to plug it in or can you let it idle and charge the battery. I live in a townhouse and can not have at home charging. If I never have to plug it in and it actually works it could be good.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you ever have to plug it in. I've yet to see any version of PHEVs that require you to plug it in, but you lose most/all of the economic benefit if you don't. If you want the acceleration of the EV and the range of gas, though, then it would work for you.

 

[Mb7640]

I could be wrong, but I don't think you ever have to plug it in. I've yet to see any version of PHEVs that require you to plug it in, but you lose most/all of the economic benefit if you don't. If you want the acceleration of the EV and the range of gas, though, then it would work for you.

It could work right now in my 5.7l i use 20 gallons a week. Say it takes a hour to idle and charge the battery i may only use 8 gallons a week so it could save money. Then again if the truck cost 70k or more then its not worth it. Will be interesting to see how it plays out

 

[Docwagon1776]

It could work right now in my 5.7l i use 20 gallons a week. Say it takes a hour to idle and charge the battery i may only use 8 gallons a week so it could save money. Then again if the truck cost 70k or more then its not worth it. Will be interesting to see how it plays out

You can't create energy out of nothing, so if you need 20 gallons of gasoline worth of energy in a week you will *still* need 20 gallons of gasoline worth of energy. You may find there's some efficiency gains in that the V6 can run at a steady rpm, you recapture energy normally wasted during deceleration, etc. Pumping losses on the V6 will be less than the hemi. Since it doesn't need a wide power band to work as a generator, it can be tuned to be most efficient at a given rpm. All relative improvement, but nothing that's going to be enough to cut your fuel needs by over half.

Without the battery charged, back of the napkin math indicates about 20mpg, which is pretty samey-samey for a normal V6 Ram. The difference would be you'd get the 20mpg or better city driving in stop/go but highway isn't going to be a big difference.

 

[Mb7640]

You can't create energy out of nothing, so if you need 20 gallons of gasoline worth of energy in a week you will *still* need 20 gallons of gasoline worth of energy. You may find there's some efficiency gains in that the V6 can run at a steady rpm, you recapture energy normally wasted during deceleration, etc. Pumping losses on the V6 will be less than the hemi. Since it doesn't need a wide power band to work as a generator, it can be tuned to be most efficient at a given rpm. All relative improvement, but nothing that's going to be enough to cut your fuel needs by over half.

Without the battery charged, back of the napkin math indicates about 20mpg, which is pretty samey-samey for a normal V6 Ram. The difference would be you'd get the 20mpg or better city driving in stop/go but highway isn't going to be a big difference.

Yes I see what you are saying this is what I was thinking of course its probably wrong. I can drive almost 2 days on electric only then the v6 would fully charge the battery using its 20mpg probally about a hour to recharge then go another 2 days before it has to be recharged. It probably does not work this way. Would be nice if it did.

 

[Riccochet]

Yes I see what you are saying this is what I was thinking of course its probably wrong. I can drive almost 2 days on electric only then the v6 would fully charge the battery using its 20mpg probally about a hour to recharge then go another 2 days before it has to be recharged. It probably does not work this way. Would be nice if it did.

Going to take considerably longer than 1 hour to charge a 92kWh battery pack from dead with a 130kw generator. Maybe on DC fast charging if you don't mind sitting at a charger for an hour.

 

[Mb7640]

Going to take considerably longer than 1 hour to charge a 92kWh battery pack from dead with a 130kw generator. Maybe on DC fast charging if you don't mind sitting at a charger for an hour.

Yeah my math sucks lol i figure it would neber be completely dead but thats assuming and no i would not want that. Thats why I do not want full eleecteic besides range and price. Have to see when it comes out may have to rent one for a week. Im planning on keeping my 21 for at least 8 years hopefully I do drive 20k miles a year.

 

[mikeru]

I could be wrong, but I don't think you ever have to plug it in. I've yet to see any version of PHEVs that require you to plug it in, but you lose most/all of the economic benefit if you don't. If you want the acceleration of the EV and the range of gas, though, then it would work for you.

You're not wrong, but anyone who buys one for economic benefit will be disappointed. Along with what I've posted about using as a home generator, I'm mainly interested in it because ...

All-new 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger capable of:

• 663 horsepower and 615 lb.-ft. of torque
• 0 – 60 miles per hour (mph) in 4.4 seconds
• Towing up to 14,000 lbs. and payload of up to 2,625 pounds

 

[Riccochet]

The payload increase is a welcome benefit. Makes me wonder what the GVWR is on these things.

 

[kdoublep]

You can't create energy out of nothing

Tell the current administration that lol

 

[dafish]

Lordy...

I'm one of the active folks from the Ford forums. I dropped in to see if anything new was to be found. Nope, but there sure has been a lot of misinformation scattered here. Some very good information too of course! I don't want to call anybody out, so in no order here is a little information:

Battery cost/longevity, etc
Mostly a non-issue raised by those that don't own an EV and/or have done little to no fact finding. One oft sees an occasional over-reaction/FUD tossed in too of course, but nothing in this forum. Two macro answers:

1) Cost: I stopped re-writing this from place to place. Check out post #4 and on: This Link As you'll see, cost concern shouldn't be an issue.
2) One should/could learn how to manage battery degradation, but many don't. Aside from that, a LION pack, properly cared for, has a life-expectancy of 1500 cycles. In my MY-LR that's over 300,000 miles. And since Tesla certainly knows how to architect a BMS (Battery Management System), and I went and learned how to manage battery aging, I've absolutely no concerns. And won't on an RC either.

Those two things said, it would be very very nice if they moved to LFP batteries. Off the shelf available, nearly unlimited recharge cycles, etc.. I really don't know why they aren't. As you likely know Tesla is already using LFP in several cases.


Using One W/O Home Charging:
You certainly could but it would make for a mildly poor financial decision. Be fun to drive though! There is going to be somewhat more conversion loss in the RC than a standard ICE drivetrain. Not tons, less then 5% more, but it will be there. As has been stated, you can't make power. Now for many/most folks you'll have several days of range available, and that free range easily, even overwhelming, offets the ~5% loss. Assuming you charge at home!

The wise man doesn't charge to more than about 55% capacity though, and advertized ranges are never realistic, so more than a few days might be harder, but still.

NCAS vs CCS:
Yea, terrible decision. As a reservation holder I've already requested that be improved/reconsidered. That said, so long as Stellantis continues their own DC fast charge build-out based on CCS (not a good idea) I don't expect them to get wise quickly. Enter the solution: NCAS to CCS Adapter

Similarities:
The locomotice is close but of course has no battery. Serial power delivery though. You might think "Honda CRV I-MMD" That's a largely serial hybrid with a very part-time parallel shim. It's more efficient around town, less on the interstate. As we would expect.

Really Nice Payload:
Agreed. I've predicted more like 1800lbs in what I would expect in mine, but that's plenty and amen.

Battery Capacity:
I can't cofirm it (Iv'e tried), but various press are kicking aroung 70.8KW for "available". That doesn't make any sense, but that's the number. I would expect a 92KW pack to see much more like 80KW available, but...

How far can it tow:
Pretty far. I'm happy to model a few things for you. Please tell me what you are towing, what with, how far, and what average MPG you get and I'll model it a bit for you. I'll take a (crude) crack at the first two interesting examples.

Weight:
One of those "in the eye of the beholder" kind of things, but relative to an EV half-ton it will be at or below. My crude layman math put the RC at nearly identical weight to the REV with the entry level battery pack.

Not Putting Out Enough Amps To Not Go Dead
Of course not. Sure, there are limits, but they are way way out there. As one example, it could deliver 300HP continuously for something like 30 minutes. Short of pulling a logging truck up a mountain...

Some folks aren't modeling or thinking this through. Even accepting this truck is clearly aimed at those of us that tow, it will meet 95% of need without ever needing to stop or slow down. Those 5% that are pulling exceptionally heavy up extremely long mountains? You need more truck than this anyway. Like a 1 ton diesel!

Hysteria - The battery is going to explode! You'll be found dead with no more fuel or battery left!
I got nothing that can fix this kind of thinking, and long experience tells me not to even try.

Home Generator:
Oh yea! Although RC owners will have to deal with the same issues the PowerBoost guys have had to deal with (this can be it's own topic if interest develops).

Emissions:
Yes, Ram engineers have already stated the Pentastar engine must meet emissions.

Engine Running All The Time:
Rarely. Most folks will not see the engine run in day to day use. At all. Now this is, to some degree, dependent on how smart they are about heating the thing, but I'm assuming they're using a heat pump on the REV and the RC. I grant you for long trips and/or towing the ICE will run, but otherwise you charge it up at home, drive it for a hundred miles and charge it again. (ABC<55% of course).



Hopefully I've helped, it was certainly my intent.

Best wishes gentlemen!

-d

 

[dafish]

What you describe is a "parallel hybrid" in that either the battery or the ICE can directly drive the power train.

Tony, a Rav Prime, as one example is a parallel as you correctly describe. The Honda CRV hybrid, on the other hand, is essentially serial as Crispy suggests. Now in fairness it does have a lock in direct drive clutch that operates at some moderate speeds, but only rarely. Even Honda calls it's "serial" and it basically is. The Mitsu Outlander is another example of a serial hybrid that adds a parallel drive, this time for higher speed operation.

As it happens I think the "prime" architecture is the best of all of them, but that's just one mans opinion.

 

[dafish]

It could work right now in my 5.7l i use 20 gallons a week. Say it takes a hour to idle and charge the battery i may only use 8 gallons a week so it could save money. Then again if the truck cost 70k or more then its not worth it. Will be interesting to see how it plays out

No sir that won't work. The conversion loss of ICE to generator, generator to battery, battery to DC and then to motor are just going to be worse than a normal (todays) drivetrain efficiency. Now if you can charge at work? Bingo.

Of course in use this is reduced, the ICE>generator puts power on the bus, the EDM's take power directly off the bus = greater efficiency. Still nowhere near as good as charging at home./

You could maybe, maybe (be too close to call) break even using a DC fast charger, but those are hard on the battery so not a good extended use answer.

You need a neighbor like me that puts out more solar energy than I can use (for now).