2025 1500 RamCharger. Is it an EV?

[Mb7640]

No sir that won't work. The conversion loss of ICE to generator, generator to battery, battery to DC and then to motor are just going to be worse than a normal (todays) drivetrain efficiency. Now if you can charge at work? Bingo.

Of course in use this is reduced, the ICE>generator puts power on the bus, the EDM's take power directly off the bus = greater efficiency. Still nowhere near as good as charging at home./

You could maybe, maybe (be too close to call) break even using a DC fast charger, but those are hard on the battery so not a good extended use answer.

You need a neighbor like me that puts out more solar energy than I can use (for now).

Thanks for the information I do appreciate it. We do not have charging at work. Nothing in the town I live in either. We will see what changes happen in the future. I am planning on staying with gas. Im sure eventually the hoa in my townhouse complex will have to change with the times. Or i install a charger without them knowing lol. Thats what I did for my solar granted I dont have it up all the time just for my solar generators for when the power goes out and thats only 10kw.

 

[Mb7640]

No sir that won't work. The conversion loss of ICE to generator, generator to battery, battery to DC and then to motor are just going to be worse than a normal (todays) drivetrain efficiency. Now if you can charge at work? Bingo.

Of course in use this is reduced, the ICE>generator puts power on the bus, the EDM's take power directly off the bus = greater efficiency. Still nowhere near as good as charging at home./

You could maybe, maybe (be too close to call) break even using a DC fast charger, but those are hard on the battery so not a good extended use answer.

You need a neighbor like me that puts out more solar energy than I can use (for now).

Are you saying that they are not using a dc generator off of the motor and they are using a ac generator? If thats thats not very smart on there part

 

[dafish]

Are you saying that they are not using a dc generator off of the motor and they are using a ac generator? If thats thats not very smart on there part

I don't think they've released the type, but I too find it hard to believe they're converting to AC. For now I assume (and you know what they say) it'd DC.

To be more clear, and let me apologize for not being more clear, the energy conversion of ICE to DC energy has no chance of generating energy as cheaply as our utility grid. Even when marked up (understandably) by DC fast charging stations. As a rough rule of thumb I find DC fast charging to be ~70% of the cost of gasoline. Home charging varies too much per person, but for my neighbors it would be around 25% of the cost of gasoline (mine is free).

Net: While the Pentastar will not be quite as energy efficient (my opinion) as a standard truck with the same engine would be:
1) Who wants to drive that truck?
2) It will be relatively in that range, for the 3.6 will get to operate in a more ideal operating load for it's efficiency (presumably).
3) And of course who cares how doggy the 3.6 would feel, that's why we have batteries and EDM motors.

But charging it back up from gasoline? There is just no such thing as a free lunch. I do think it will do better than a 3.5 ecoboost day to day though so it's not an awful idea, just one hard to cost justify. Running from a home charge you'd almost have no gasoline cost, so there is an ROI to be found (depending on your cost and ability to charge).

Hopefully I've been more clear. In not I'll try to better.

atb,

-d

 

[Yardbird]

Mmmmmmmm.....Seems the dealers don't want the EVs....

More than 3,000 auto dealers sign letter opposing electric vehicle mandate​

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...p&cvid=293dfa68cbe94d2f85fc943f2e56b5f8&ei=19

 

[Riccochet]

Mmmmmmmm.....Seems the dealers don't want the EVs....

More than 3,000 auto dealers sign letter opposing electric vehicle mandate​

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...p&cvid=293dfa68cbe94d2f85fc943f2e56b5f8&ei=19

Dealers bread and butter are used vehicle sales. A used EV that's nearing it battery warranty is about worthless to them. The mandate, within a few years, would cut their sales profits by 60% or more.

 

[CaptStumpy]

Ramcharger is smart idea. All the horsepower goes straight into the battery, where it belongs. Using a pentastar to do this wasn't the smartest decision.

 

[ebirotedu]

@CaptStumpy

Regarding the choice of the Pentastar being bad, I've seen other comments in other places to this effect. Can you explain why you think this is a bad choice and what would have been a better one? TIA.

I'm pretty enthused about the Ramcharger, though I am waiting for more details and probably won't be a 1st or even 2nd year buyer. Re: the Pentastar, I assume that balancing between power (required to turn the generator), efficiency, packaging, weight, and cost, the Pentastar was better than other options.

 

[Riccochet]

My guess about the Pentastar. It's simple. It's a 300 HP engine to power a generator, they already make the engine en mass, it's already in use in the 1500 platform so no one-off nonsense. It doesn't get much easier for them than that.

The engine itself is pretty reliable. Many of them go 200-300k miles. Plus it's not going to be ran as hard as if it were directly driving the drivetrain.

 

[mikeru]

Ramcharger is smart idea. All the horsepower goes straight into the battery, where it belongs. Using a pentastar to do this wasn't the smartest decision.

Why not the pentastar? What engine do you think would be better for this application, and why?

 

[NCRaineman]

Ramcharger is smart idea. All the horsepower goes straight into the battery, where it belongs. Using a pentastar to do this wasn't the smartest decision.

I'm sure they're using Pentastar because they've got excess production capacity of it. It was the base engine for Charger and Challenger, both of which are dead at the end of the year.

Why incur the costs of using a different engine when you can use something out of the parts catalog that you already make and have sitting around with no vehicle to put it in? Using an engine you've already got reduces costs. No need to engineer or produce something different, just stick it in there.

From an engineering and manufacturing standpoint the whole vehicle is a genius move. Make an "EV" that really isn't. What they've done is replace the transmission and drive components with a generator, battery and motor system. It satisfies Nanny Sam and the Eco-freakos "You need to make an electric truck!" without all the costs associated with creating an entirely new vehicle.

Is it practical? Not really, no. Is it profitable? Maybe with taxpayer subsidy. Will a lot of people rush to buy it? Doubtful. Note that GM tried essentially the same thing a decade ago with Volt, and it really didn't go over well. They didn't sell all that many. People who an EV makes sense for want a pure EV. People who an EV makes no sense for have no interest in them. In trying to make a halfway house vehicle neither party is satisfied.

 

[Riccochet]

I'm sure they're using Pentastar because they've got excess production capacity of it. It was the base engine for Charger and Challenger, both of which are dead at the end of the year.

Why incur the costs of using a different engine when you can use something out of the parts catalog that you already make and have sitting around with no vehicle to put it in? Using an engine you've already got reduces costs. No need to engineer or produce something different, just stick it in there.

They're still making it for other vehicles. As far as I know it'll still be the base engine for the 1500 going forward.

As you said, it just makes sense. It's already used in the platform, just replace the transmission with a generator, boom, done.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I'm sure they're using Pentastar because they've got excess production capacity of it. It was the base engine for Charger and Challenger, both of which are dead at the end of the year.

Charger is 100% not dead and will continue to have an ICE option, info direct from fleet sales and with expected order window dates. No info on Challengers, it may very well be dead.

 

[NCRaineman]

Charger is 100% not dead and will continue to have an ICE option, info direct from fleet sales and with expected order window dates. No info on Challengers, it may very well be dead.

Charger as it exists on the LD platform is dead. The model is taking a year off and will return "all new", but for the purposes of a 2024 model it is dead. Yes the new one will have ICE options. I'm imagining the turbo four from Hornet as a base engine with the Hurricane six as an upgrade and some kind of electrified setup as a Hellcat stand in. Maybe similar to what they're planning for Ramcharger, with an ICE acting as a generator to power electric motors. Ramcharger is claiming 660hp from whatever setup they're using, so that in a car would be quite impressive.

A Challenger replacement on the same platform I'd expect to follow a year after Charger. It's majority just sheet metal differences and Mustang is still out there, so I can't see Stellantis leaving the muscle coupe field for long. Challenger has done quite well for them, selling right up there with Mustang despite being older and lower performing.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Charger as it exists on the LD platform is dead. The model is taking a year off and will return "all new", but for the purposes of a 2024 model it is dead. Yes the new one will have ICE options. I'm imagining the turbo four from Hornet as a base engine with the Hurricane six as an upgrade and some kind of electrified setup as a Hellcat stand in. Maybe similar to what they're planning for Ramcharger, with an ICE acting as a generator to power electric motors. Ramcharger is claiming 660hp from whatever setup they're using, so that in a car would be quite impressive.

I'd be surprised if Pentastar doesn't remain an option for fleets, but I've been surprised at least twice before. We've been told there is a 6 cylinder version, though.

 

[NCRaineman]

I'd be surprised if Pentastar doesn't remain an option for fleets, but I've been surprised at least twice before. We've been told there is a 6 cylinder version, though.

Launching a new model with a carryover engine isn't unheard of, Ford is well known for doing it with Mustang. A great way to use up engines that are sitting in the warehouse before switching to the new stuff.

I just can't see Pentastar carrying on as the base engine for long in a new Ram or Charger when the competition is getting more power AND better economy out of turbo fours. The turbo four in Silverado laughs at Pentastar and the Ecoboost Mustang is competition for Charger/Challenger R/T due to their weight. Pentastar was a huge advance over the old 3.5 and 3.7 V6s when it came out, but that was in 2010. The design is showing its age.

 

[Riccochet]

I don't know. I can see them using the Pentastar in the Ramcharger for a while. No turbo's, simple engine that's tired and true, low maintenance. It's not driving the wheels either, so it's going to last a long time.

Maybe they'll change the base model engine for the ICE Ram 1500 to one of their 4 banger turbo's at some point, but for a generator, no need for excess complications.

And those ecoboost Mustangs are terrible. Rented one in Florida. To get in the beans out of it you have to put it in sport mode, which opens the exhaust, and it sounds like a fart, the shifts were terrible. I did not like it at all.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Launching a new model with a carryover engine isn't unheard of, Ford is well known for doing it with Mustang. A great way to use up engines that are sitting in the warehouse before switching to the new stuff.

I just can't see Pentastar carrying on as the base engine for long in a new Ram or Charger when the competition is getting more power AND better economy out of turbo fours. The turbo four in Silverado laughs at Pentastar and the Ecoboost Mustang is competition for Charger/Challenger R/T due to their weight. Pentastar was a huge advance over the old 3.5 and 3.7 V6s when it came out, but that was in 2010. The design is showing its age.

No idea. Dodge has done 'fleet only' power trains in the Charger before with the hemi/6-spd/awd that was unavailable outside of fleet sales. I suspect a cheap to build/cheap to buy/cheap to maintain option that appeals to fleet managers and bean counters may remain longer than the wider market cares about it.

We ordered something approaching 600 cars this year. A few hundred bucks per unit is a big deal for us, as well as expected maintenance and fuel costs.

 

[NCRaineman]

And those ecoboost Mustangs are terrible. Rented one in Florida. To get in the beans out of it you have to put it in sport mode, which opens the exhaust, and it sounds like a fart, the shifts were terrible. I did not like it at all.

I agree they sound like a Honda. An American muscle car should not sound like that. However the performance credentials of the total package can't be denied. It's a pretty close match for the Charger/Challenger R/T despite the horsepower deficit, because the Dodge models weigh 500lbs more.

 

[CaptStumpy]

engine horsepower really does not need to be huge in this application, so long as the battery inverter is getting a steady supply of current. I think a smaller hurricane or world engine would be better than the V6 pentastar.

 

[NCRaineman]

engine horsepower really does not need to be huge in this application, so long as the battery inverter is getting a steady supply of current. I think a smaller hurricane or world engine would be better than the V6 pentastar.

Again, it's a matter of what Stellantis has capacity in its factories to produce and what requires the least amount of work to engineer into the truck. Using Pentastar is a *cost saving* measure. They've got plenty of them, they're reliable, the truck is already set up to use them.