Recall No More - 5.7l Exhaust manifold bolts

[Nuke71]

I'm 2 months out of warranty and at 100,839 km and the dreaded exhaust tick just started on the passenger side. Going to call the dealer but I'm pretty sure I'm screwed.

 

[ram1500rsm]

I already have new gaskets for both sides, new bolts and a new passenger side head, dealer took care of it at no cost, next time it happens I’ll go with shorty headers and those stage 8 bolts, I have no plans to keep adding the same bs piece of crap parts to my truck.

 

[Nuke71]

I'm 2 months out of warranty and at 100,839 km and the dreaded exhaust tick just started on the passenger side. Going to call the dealer but I'm pretty sure I'm screwed.

Called the dealership and the service tech told me to try some octane boost or 89 fuel to see if the tick goes away. What a joke!

 

[noupf]

Called the dealership and the service tech told me to try some octane boost or 89 fuel to see if the tick goes away. What a joke!

typical ******* techs......not a mechanic, a useless tech. Makes me sick knowing these idiots work on vehicles.

 

[noupf]

I think my passenger side has the exhaust leak now ( very slight tick for about 20 seconds then goes away ). I already had my driverside manifold bolts replaced around 35k miles.

Does anybody know if there are headers that bolt right up to the existing exhaust set up? I'm a pretty good mechanic, but extracting broken bolts isnt something i plan on tackling. I was thinking about asking the guys at my local dealership to maybe split the cost on labor and just insall some headers for me when and if the tick i have is from the broken bolts. I'm still within my warranty period, so at the very least the fix will cost me nothing again.

 

[noupf]

Stage 8 - 8916 MOPAR 4.7, 5.7, 6.1 Liter Hemi V8 Header Bolt Kit - 8mm 1.25x25mm Bolts 6 Point DHH - Set of 17 pieces https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QDX8LE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_qYbOBb927V4H4

anything else out there? reviews seems to suck about these

 

[smiley]

I don’t think if you look at the reviews they really matter. Look at them in detail they are mostly complaints about their application not working. They worked with my shorties. Didn’t break so far that is all I cared.

 

[prairieboy]

Aside from the tick, is there any way to tell if the bolts are broken?

 

[indept]

Called the dealership and the service tech told me to try some octane boost or 89 fuel to see if the tick goes away. What a joke!

If you try the octane boost, make sure you buy boost rated for the right side of the engine, if you buy Left Side Octane Boost it might not work...

 

[Fitz-0518]

Aside from the tick, is there any way to tell if the bolts are broken?

Yes. I watched the tech do this at my dealer. Take a socket and ratchet. He used 1/4" drive with a short ratchet. Start on passenger side. If you can turn the manifold bolts "easily" they are broke and being held in place by the manifold. On the passenger side they are tougher to get to. Same check. To confirm exhaust leak versus lifter noise. If your first cold start in the morning is the only time you hear it and it goes away after the engine warms up. Pretty good chance it is exhaust. In the 5.7 the common bolt to snap is the passenger rear. They tend to fall out from vibration.

 

[Nuke71]

If you try the octane boost, make sure you buy boost rated for the right side of the engine, if you buy Left Side Octane Boost it might not work...

Woah, you saved me from near disaster, I didn't even think of that lol

I'm going to check the bolts this weekend and then call the dealership back on Monday. Hopefully I can use the ridiculous advice their tech gave me as ammo to get this looked after.

 

[Louis Lugnutz]

One way you can tell besides tick, is when you first start it up after sitting(engine cold) and you start to drive idle will come up high and seem odd, then within 30 seconds go back to normal. This has been a ongoing issue with hemis since they came out, my 05 Durango hemi, broken bolts too. Cast iron and aluminum don't expand same so snaps bolts. Is why many just do shorty headers.

I'm new to hemi, this is my first one and bought it only a few weeks ago, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can about making it the best it can be.

Can you help me to understand how changing to shorty headers solves this problem? Assuming aluminum heads, steel bolts/studs, and cast iron manifold, I'm wondering why changing to headers (steel?) eliminates the problem, as steel and iron are similar thermal exapnsion, depending on grade of steel (maybe slightly higher CTE than cast iron), while aluminum is much higher. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-expansion-metals-d_859.html

My first thought was maybe that a thinner flange on a steel header might change things, but that seemed to work backwards at first thought.

Now Im thinking maybe over time (thermal cycling), the bolts eventually stretch a bit, and so when the engine is cold everything is contacted and so the aluminum is contracted the most, so there is a gap and so a leak, until it warms up closing the gap again. That fits the above description of symptoms.

I was hoping the answer would click for my in writing it out, but I'm still not getting how headers can solve this. Anyone able to explain this to me?

Edit: Ok, I saw as I read further posts about it not being a problem of thermal expansion of the bolt joint, but mechanical stress basically caused by leverage placed on the bolts by the exhaust system maybe partially caused by thermal considerations.

 

[smiley]

I think the main reason it helps is when the headers warp they don’t have the strength to pop the bolts like cast iron does. It might be that the aluminum heads and the cast iron are not meant to be. I am not sure entirely but it is a big problem and should be reengineered if you ask me.

 

[Fitz-0518]

^^That is the problem. From what I have read in the archives from those that have done this. The shorty exhaust headers are a better match for our aluminum heads. Do not know what material is used in. Nick at Gotexhaust may have a better answer.

 

[Louis Lugnutz]

I think the main reason it helps is when the headers warp they don’t have the strength to pop the bolts like cast iron does. It might be that the aluminum heads and the cast iron are not meant to be. I am not sure entirely but it is a big problem and should be reengineered if you ask me.

Interesting. I did see two possible reasons, one being leverage that a flex pipe (like on the GM's?) might solve it, and the other was the warping of the flange. Here's to it being the warping so headers only and not modifying the y-pipe fixes it, which people including you are saying it does.

I missed it if you mentioned, can you tell us about how many miles on your (s)old truck since going to the shorty's? Which headers did you buy, was it only headers or more of the exhaust, and how did it affect performance and sound if at all? I ask sound because I'll admit I like powerful but quiet engines.

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more the warping makes more sense, as on a header it is only the structural strength of a flat strip of metal flange and a bit more force from some thin walled tubes, while a cast iron manifold is a much stronger structural shape like a box. So it makes sense that a box shape can exert much more force pulling on the bolts than a mostly flat strip flange. Thanks for helping me to think this through!

Another Edit: I agree it's definitely a real problem which would be nice if they would reengineer it, but from a business standpoint I can think of a few good reasons why they would not want to go down that rabbit hole. There are far worse examples than this out there. My latest example is my previous car, I picked up a high mileage 12 year old mercedes S500 AWD that I drove for a couple of years before a design flaw caused it to be totalled (electrically) by heavy rain while parked in my driveway. Although the powertrain was bulletproof and excellent, that car was basically disposable as it had so many design flaws that make it just about impossible to own affordably after it's about 15 years old. Pretty crazy, that car was $87k new as a 2004 model, and by 2018 with 150k miles, the AC, door locks, trunk release, and many other too fancy and too expensive gadgets no longer worked and were unreasonably expensive and difficult to repair.

 

[rackemron4]

This subject gets me going. I installed a remote start a few weeks back. Never had this issue till now. I got 71k n no warranty. WTH. 2016 they screwed up on the warranty @RamCares. If you could help me get these replaced under warranty that would be great. This has been a know issue and continues to be a problem even on the 2018 models!!

 

[Nicholas Salsbury]

Could somebody post a photograph of said bolts or where to look for damage?

Also does this issue apply to the 4.7 also, or just the 5.7?

 

[Navy Six Zero]

can't you replace them with better bolts?

My thoughts, ARE's with some Never Seize and done-annoying yes. But not an insurmountable issue to rectify. And yes, I would just fix it myself to avoid the hassle with the dealership and the headaches that usually accompany that.

With that all said, sounds like a true warranty issue though.

 

[bucco47]

After reading this thread, I'm glad I bought a Certified Pre-owned 2018 (only 2 months old) instead of new... CPO vehicles come with an extended warranty, 7yr/100k powertrain. Looks like I'll be needing it.

 

[gofishn]

This subject gets me going. I installed a remote start a few weeks back. Never had this issue till now. I got 71k n no warranty. WTH. 2016 they screwed up on the warranty @RamCares. If you could help me get these replaced under warranty that would be great. This has been a know issue and continues to be a problem even on the 2018 models!!

Prety sure teh exhaust warranty is for 100K miles. SO, you would be under warranty