15% ethanol

[mcarey]

If you are referring to the administration in charge in 2019 you must be living in a bubble if you can't see the decline of our country/world.

I'm referring to the fact that E15 was ran the summer of 2019, similarly to what's going on now.

As expected, however, this was likely either unknown or uncared about then - or both, makes no difference really.

Surprising though, considering how major of an impact it will seemingly have all of a sudden.

But I'm not here to talk politics, I'm here to talk trucks, and what I've been saying since the beginning is that no one cared about this in 2019 - predominately because it impacts next to no one. Suddenly it's some massive issue, but that has nothing to do with the fuel, the ethanol content, our engines, or whatever newly founded macro-impacts that are bound to happen.

 

[soapy]

Rueters just came out with a article on ethenol and it states that it actually creates 24% more carbon pollution than plain gas. It has to do with analysis of all the carbon released with its manufacture. It also has less energy so you get 10 to 15% less mpg with it. I try to run pure gas anytime I can.

 

[pacofortacos]

I'm referring to the fact that E15 was ran the summer of 2019, similarly to what's going on now.

As expected, however, this was likely either unknown or uncared about then - or both, makes no difference really.

Surprising though, considering how major of an impact it will seemingly have all of a sudden.

But I'm not here to talk politics, I'm here to talk trucks, and what I've been saying since the beginning is that no one cared about this in 2019 - predominately because it impacts next to no one. Suddenly it's some massive issue, but that has nothing to do with the fuel, the ethanol content, our engines, or whatever newly founded macro-impacts that are bound to happen.

It was run in 2019, but wasn't everywhere - it has just popped up in the pittsburgh area in the past couple of years.
However, they are thinking of doing away with the 10% and making 15% the standard if I am understanding the plan correctly.
So stations would say "may be blended up to 15% ethanol" vs. the 10%.

It won't impact newer vehicles much, unless it drops mpg or increases smog in the summer.
However older vehicles might experience issues - maybe that's part of the plan, to get rid of old cars again.

 

[mcarey]

It was run in 2019, but wasn't everywhere - it has just popped up in the pittsburgh area in the past couple of years.
However, they are thinking of doing away with the 10% and making 15% the standard if I am understanding the plan correctly.
So stations would say "may be blended up to 15% ethanol" vs. the 10%.

It won't impact newer vehicles much, unless it drops mpg or increases smog in the summer.
However older vehicles might experience issues - maybe that's part of the plan, to get rid of old cars again.

I haven't seen any mention of making E15 standard, and a very, very, brief Google search didn't bring up anything either, but I am open to having missed that.

I do disagree with it "being everywhere" now though. It'll be at less than 2% of all gas stations in the country. And those stations with it, already sell it all winter. The only thing that is actually changing is that instead of going away with it during the summer, as typical, they will continue to carry it.

It will likely increase smog though, which as someone who's likely been referred to as a "environmental hippy" on this site a few times already is rather frustrating, as that is precisely why it's not used during the summer.

Look, I'm not pro-E15 or whatever. I have plenty of issues with it's use entirely, a main one being mentioned just above. And anyone with a problem with it, should also probably be pretty upset as to why it's even possible to run it year round today (hint: EPA ruling in 2019). But like I've been saying since my first few posts here... this is currently something impacting very few in the country, especially in regards to running our trucks. Well, unless you include all the new founded fear-mongering hypotheses that didn't seem to exist the last time this was done, when the EPA changed the rule allowing E15 to be ran year round in times of need.

Reality is if you aren't running E15 in the winter, or have the option to run E15 in the winter, you won't even see it this summer. And if there is a plan to make E15 content standard, I'd love to read more about it. And similarly, if anyone can point to all these "other problems" that it'll cause (since those should now be documented events), I'd love to read about them too. Because like I said, none of these other concerns seemingly existed last time this happened.

 

[mikeru]

Rueters just came out with a article on ethenol and it states that it actually creates 24% more carbon pollution than plain gas. It has to do with analysis of all the carbon released with its manufacture. It also has less energy so you get 10 to 15% less mpg with it. I try to run pure gas anytime I can.

I think your numbers are exaggerated. From articles I've read, you lose 3 to 4 percent fuel economy with e10, and 4 to 5 percent with e15. In my own testing using my 2010 Audi, I've seen a 3.4% difference between 91 octane e0 and 91 octane e10. I'm no fan of running gas with ethanol, but it's not as much of a difference as you state it is.

 

[HEMIMANN]

E15 doesn't instantly destroy incapable engines. The single summer example isn't valid.

 

[mcarey]

E15 doesn't instantly destroy incapable engines. The single summer example isn't valid.

It's more valid than making up scenarios where it's run in incompatible engines year round for years on end, no? At least one of these things is an actual reality.

A brief GasBuddy search in the middle of Nebraska pulled up a handful of stations with E15 fuel, and shockingly they all also carried regular fuel as well. I've got to imagine that is much more of a commonplace across the country than places where one would only have the option of buying E15 (winter and/or summer).

 

[HEMIMANN]

It's more valid than making up scenarios where it's run in incompatible engines year round for years on end, no? At least one of these things is an actual reality.

A brief GasBuddy search in the middle of Nebraska pulled up a handful of stations with E15 fuel, and shockingly they all also carried regular fuel as well. I've got to imagine that is much more of a commonplace across the country than places where one would only have the option of buying E15 (winter and/or summer).

Somebody sued the Feds over mandating E15 year round, don't remember who, but wasn't too long ago. Last year maybe. Best government money can buy off.

 

[dhay13]

I just did a search on GasBuddy foe E85 and it says no E85 fuel found. There is a station about 15 miles from here that has it but thats the only one I have ever seen. Not sure how far GasBuddy goes out in its default search and can't figure out how to change the search distance.

But wither way I would probably lose at least 15% MPG using it so it isn't worth it. When I had my 2007 4.7 FF Ram I was reading articles and they said they tested a Chevy truck with flex fuel and it got like 15 on regular and 11 on flex fuel. 25% is way too much for me to lose

 

[mikeru]

I just did a search on GasBuddy foe E85 and it says no E85 fuel found. There is a station about 15 miles from here that has it but thats the only one I have ever seen. Not sure how far GasBuddy goes out in its default search and can't figure out how to change the search distance.

But wither way I would probably lose at least 15% MPG using it so it isn't worth it. When I had my 2007 4.7 FF Ram I was reading articles and they said they tested a Chevy truck with flex fuel and it got like 15 on regular and 11 on flex fuel. 25% is way too much for me to lose

Why are you searching for E85? This discussion is about E15. The Hemi is not designed to run E85.

 

[mcarey]

Why are you searching for E85? This discussion is about E15. The Hemi is not designed to run E85.

These are the people up in arms about this....

 

[392DevilDog]

Why are you searching for E85? This discussion is about E15. The Hemi is not designed to run E85.

It is a lost cause at this point. Lol. No matter what someone brings to the conversation at this point...opinions are made. The facts point 3 ways.

E15 OCT 88 is what I was basing my case on with a 5th Gen RAM and Central PA prices. Apparently E15 87 is a totally different animal...because the E15 88 definitely works better than E10 87 and is similar to E10 89. And the price difference in Central PA is significant enough that even at a loss ( WHICH there is not) it is still worth it.

I guess I never looked at the political side of it...i do not dwell in politics and just use what makes my life simpler. Guess it depends what article writer you read as to if it is good or not.

Good times.

I will drift away again and keep my thoughts to myself.

Just saw your post and love how people talk about apples when we are peeling oranges

 

[pacofortacos]

It is a lost cause at this point. Lol. No matter what someone brings to the conversation at this point...opinions are made. The facts point 3 ways.

E15 OCT 88 is what I was basing my case on with a 5th Gen RAM and Central PA prices. Apparently E15 87 is a totally different animal...because the E15 88 definitely works better than E10 87 and is similar to E10 89. And the price difference in Central PA is significant enough that even at a loss ( WHICH there is not) it is still worth it.

I guess I never looked at the political side of it...i do not dwell in politics and just use what makes my life simpler. Guess it depends what article writer you read as to if it is good or not.

Good times.

I will drift away again and keep my thoughts to myself.

Just saw your post and love how people talk about apples when we are peeling oranges

You getting the E15 88 at Sheetz?
Debating trying it in the wife's DI mazda 3. Sheets is about the only local station carrying it here and it is about 20-30 cents less expensive than E10 87.

 

[pacofortacos]

I'll bet E15 87octane is similar in quality to the high elevation E10 85 octane but with the added E5 to bump it up.

 

[392DevilDog]

You getting the E15 88 at Sheetz?
Debating trying it in the wife's DI mazda 3. Sheets is about the only local station carrying it here and it is about 20-30 cents less expensive than E10 87.

Yes. But I prefer to buy it at Rutters. But right now Rutters is 25 cents cheaper snd Sheetz is 35 cents cheaper, so sheetz got my business again lol

 

[pacofortacos]

I haven't seen any mention of making E15 standard, and a very, very, brief Google search didn't bring up anything either, but I am open to having missed that.

I do disagree with it "being everywhere" now though. It'll be at less than 2% of all gas stations in the country. And those stations with it, already sell it all winter. The only thing that is actually changing is that instead of going away with it during the summer, as typical, they will continue to carry it.

It will likely increase smog though, which as someone who's likely been referred to as a "environmental hippy" on this site a few times already is rather frustrating, as that is precisely why it's not used during the summer.

Look, I'm not pro-E15 or whatever. I have plenty of issues with it's use entirely, a main one being mentioned just above. And anyone with a problem with it, should also probably be pretty upset as to why it's even possible to run it year round today (hint: EPA ruling in 2019). But like I've been saying since my first few posts here... this is currently something impacting very few in the country, especially in regards to running our trucks. Well, unless you include all the new founded fear-mongering hypotheses that didn't seem to exist the last time this was done, when the EPA changed the rule allowing E15 to be ran year round in times of need.

Reality is if you aren't running E15 in the winter, or have the option to run E15 in the winter, you won't even see it this summer. And if there is a plan to make E15 content standard, I'd love to read more about it. And similarly, if anyone can point to all these "other problems" that it'll cause (since those should now be documented events), I'd love to read about them too. Because like I said, none of these other concerns seemingly existed last time this happened.

I may be mistaken as I really don't care about it but I thought that was the plan, otherwise how is it going to drop the price - other than increase distribution, but most gas stations aren't going to invest in another tank to hold it if they currently don't carry it.
And I hope they don't go E15 87 octane.

 

[392DevilDog]

You getting the E15 88 at Sheetz?
Debating trying it in the wife's DI mazda 3. Sheets is about the only local station carrying it here and it is about 20-30 cents less expensive than E10 87.

This was the difference in price during the summer...which is why I did not understand the rulers comment about the ban.

It is always available here.

But he also had to be lead away from adult conversation by the Easter Bunny.

 

[pacofortacos]

Yes. But I prefer to buy it at Rutters. But right now Rutters is 25 cents cheaper snd Sheetz is 35 cents cheaper, so sheetz got my business again lol

We don't have any Rutters just a bit west of you. I haven't really tried it as I don't drive the truck often, another reason I don't like ethanol but non-ethanol is pricey here unlike in florida.
I think I tried it a couple of times driving out west and either didn't notice much change or a slight drop in mpg but to be honest, the wind affects my mpg so much there's no way I could say for sure if it was fuel. Didn't run any differently on highway cruise though.

 

[pacofortacos]

This was the difference in price during the summer...which is why I did not understand the rulers comment about the ban.

It is always available here.

But he also had to be lead away from adult conversation by the Easter Bunny.

I can't remember if it is here all summer long, I just noticed it in the past year and Pittsburgh gets stagnant air being in between the hills and no wind on hot summer days.

 

[392DevilDog]

We don't have any Rutters just a bit west of you. I haven't really tried it as I don't drive the truck often, another reason I don't like ethanol but non-ethanol is pricey here unlike in florida.
I think I tried it a couple of times driving out west and either didn't notice much change or a slight drop in mpg but to be honest, the wind affects my mpg so much there's no way I could say for sure if it was fuel. Didn't run any differently on highway cruise though.

That is the reason I take no issue using it. I go through a tank of gas every 3 days. In my 99 I use 90 non ethanol(and my dirt bikes and mowers etc) because it sits for awhile. If I was going on a 300 mile trip...i would have no issue using it in my 99 or my 03...