steering shaft - header interference

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Bandit517

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Update, very slight contact at wide open throttle while turning (minor curves on highway entrance ramp) but no contact at anything below wide open throttle under any circumstances.

I want to find an ACTUAL photo of the Borgeson shaft because the stock photos show using set screws. The factory shaft is Double D with a pinch bolt.
 
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I contacted Borgeson for specs on their steering shaft. While the U joint center line is in the "stock" location, it's also 3/4" thinner. So I bit the bullet and placed an order for it. I'll see if it fits as it should and how the clearance is. I figure if necessary I can do the same modification to the Borgeson shaft if needed to help with fitment.
 

DILLIGAF

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Just drill a dimple were the set screw goes. and red loctite that *****. I would also stake it.

The boys on the Cummins forum have issues with it because the vibration backs out the set screws.
 

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I like Borgeson products, and their conversions. But a set screw on a steering shaft (or their U-joints) is where I draw the line in safety. If a person's EPS goes out (which they can/will do), or the vehicle/engine stops operating for one reason or the other, Or even needing to move the vehicle if the battery goes dead ...or what if an engine mount breaks on that side, will the engine lift up enough to pry the set-screw joint apart?? There are times where there could be a LOT of twisting torque on those shafts.

You should be able to build up a whole new shaft from parts which is safe, low profile, and doesn't use set screws. Summit Racing has a whole bunch of steering parts that street-rodders use to make up steering shafts. Street Rodders need to go around headers and connect different makes box/columns, etc. Summit and a couple other sites (google it) sell all number of steering joint ends, slip shafts (so you don't get skewered), shafts of different or cut-able lengths. Different splined ends to fit different make boxes. And various u-joints. They're not even all that expensive all things considered. Use all-steel if you can so you can safely weld it all up.

.
 
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1SloRam

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Where did you get your headers? I can’t find any JBA LT’s. Good thread incase I find a set I know what to do, lol.
 

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Where did you get your headers? I can’t find any JBA LT’s. Good thread incase I find a set I know what to do, lol.
Supposedly JBA / Pertronix doesn't make truck long tubes anymore according to Matt Fikac at Moes.That's the rumour floating around these days.I know it took just over 11 months to get my last set of JBA's for the wifes Challenger,and that was over a year ago.
 

1SloRam

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Supposedly JBA / Pertronix doesn't make truck long tubes anymore according to Matt Fikac at Moes.That's the rumour floating around these days.I know it took just over 11 months to get my last set of JBA's for the wifes Challenger,and that was over a year ago.
That SUCKS to hear.
 

Wild one

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That SUCKS to hear.
Both the shop and i had to make several phone calls to Pertronix before they finally sent them The excuse they kept giving us,was they couldn't get the steel to make headers because of Covid. That might or not have been true,but it was their excuse at the time
 

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Back to the OP,

If you don't want to depress the header area to gain that last little bit of clearance, another option might be to cut that segment of the header pipe out and either re-weld it back in, only shorter, further in, (heat & pull the other pipe ends together as needed). Or weld in a new, slightly tighter radius, in it's place. Tack the new pipe in place, then remove the header and complete the welds on the back-side. And if you're going to do that, maybe braze on a small piece of fabb'd up18ga S/S heat shield in the area of the steering U-joint to keep some of the heat away. Then buy a new OEM-style replacement steering shaft. That way you get a header which is safely far enough away from the steering u-joint, and don't have to compromise steering safety with sub-standard parts. Plus, it'll probably be cheaper in the long run if you end up with a product which doesn't cook the u-joint.

Summit Racig sells all sorts of pipes of different radius' and header kits. Lot of street rod, racers, and custom fab guys make their own headers from parts/pieces or a kit. I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know. Looks like your fab chops are pretty good. :waytogo:

Just an alternative idea. Many ways to skin a cat. Love to see your final solution.

.
 
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Bandit517

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Where did you get your headers? I can’t find any JBA LT’s. Good thread incase I find a set I know what to do, lol.
I bought mine back when they still made them over a year ago. They (along with my camshaft) had sat on the shelf until a couple weeks ago when I could finally free myself from other things to get them on the truck.
 
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Just drill a dimple were the set screw goes. and red loctite that *****. I would also stake it.

The boys on the Cummins forum have issues with it because the vibration backs out the set screws.
I figured I'm likely going to put a tack of them once I know everything is how it should be. But I'm a little reluctant of it fixing my fitment issues. I'll probably end up not being able to use the lock nuts anyways because it'll make the set screws too tall. So a dimple on the shaft, cut down set screw and a weld over the top so that it's flush should be mint.
 
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I like Borgeson products, and their conversions. But a set screw on a steering shaft (or their U-joints) is where I draw the line in safety. If a person's EPS goes out (which they can/will do), or the vehicle/engine stops operating for one reason or the other, Or even needing to move the vehicle if the battery goes dead ...or what if an engine mount breaks on that side, will the engine lift up enough to pry the set-screw joint apart?? There are times where there could be a LOT of twisting torque on those shafts.

You should be able to build up a whole new shaft from parts which is safe, low profile, and doesn't use set screws. Summit Racing has a whole bunch of steering parts that street-rodders use to make up steering shafts. Street Rodders need to go around headers and connect different makes box/columns, etc. Summit and a couple other sites (google it) sell all number of steering joint ends, slip shafts (so you don't get skewered), shafts of different or cut-able lengths. Different splined ends to fit different make boxes. And various u-joints. They're not even all that expensive all things considered. Use all-steel if you can so you can safely weld it all up.

.
I have concerns with the set screws but when I know that the shaft takes care of the fitment issue, I'll make them a problem of the past.
 
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The Borgenson shaft does NOT help with clearance. The u joint is actually thicker than the factory one after I shaved it down a bit. (Probably same as factory un modified)

The Borgeson shaft will get returned and I'll order another factory one and re-do the modifications i did to mine now that I know 1.5" would be better than the 1.25" I did.
20230303_183320.jpg20230303_183514.jpg
 
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Another update for the sake of information gathering.

I tried to even flip the Borgeson shaft upside down mounting the rack side to the column. Made the u joint sit below the cylinder 1 primary. In turn making an interference with cylinder 3 primary. Also fitment on the rack end was subpar. I'd imagine I could cut and extend the lower section of the shaft just like the stock one I did. But modifying a $340 steering shaft didn't set well with me, just like whacking a $900 set of headers. So looks like chopping up a stock $50 shaft is going to be the best option. Soon as I get the new one I'll chop it up and modify it better than the current one I'm using.
 
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Couple other quick pictures I took before boxing up the Borgeson to return.

20230303_183952.jpg20230303_184011.jpg20230303_184104.jpg
 

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Interesting...
Thanks for the pics.
 
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New steering shaft with the "2.0" revision works perfectly! I did index it slightly off again but nothing an alignment wouldn't fix. The overall length of the new one is about 1/4-1/2 inch longer but the upper shaft still has plenty of room for collapsing as it should. I did have concerns with the upper shaft angle changing too much with the U-joint being moved so far but it works just fine, no binding during steering, returns to center as it should.

20230306_075320.jpg
 

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I've bought brand new shafts which were slightly off, out of the box.

.
 
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1SloRam

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New steering shaft with the "2.0" revision works perfectly! I did index it slightly off again but nothing an alignment wouldn't fix. The overall length of the new one is about 1/4-1/2 inch longer but the upper shaft still has plenty of room for collapsing as it should. I did have concerns with the upper shaft angle changing too much with the U-joint being moved so far but it works just fine, no binding during steering, returns to center as it should.

View attachment 515611
So you’ll be selling these soon? Lol asking before I install my long tubes.
 
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