Hemi tick: at least partly metallurgical

crackerjack1957 said:

I bet ya been pushing bubbles out of lifters for years before roller cams were available....LoL

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There's a reason why i save all the old plastic ice cream buckets,lol

When I build a motor I soak the lifters for like 15-30min and stick them in. For me its more about the lubing the lifter bore as I use Permatex engine assembly lube when I build the motor and I don't want that coming off the cam lobes. On any motor I've ever built I always prelube the motor with a priming tool (right before startup). On a gear driven oil pump (hemi and LS or most new engines) I use a SpeedPro oil priming tank which forces oil through the motor while rotating by hand to pressurize everything including the lifters. I've never had an issue an no lifter chatter on startup.

Your cam looks like a material failure and possibly from the lifter smacking into the surface due to weak springs (as stated). If I ever do a cam in my engines I always opt for a high quality aftermarket cam with proven cores and heat treating. Even if it was stock cam I would see if they could remake it but to the higher quality standards like Cam motion, Comp Cams, Isky etc.

My cam and lifters in my 2013 hemi went out at 143,000. I took it in thinking the exhaust bolts were broken again. It never threw any codes. I caught it just in time to save the motor. They had the truck for 1 month. I had the lifetime warranty so it just cost me 100.00. If the motor has been bad it would have cost 15,000.00. They pull the plenum to see if there is any metal in a valve under there if its clean they can just do a cam job. If I had needed a motor they would have bought the truck for market value and canceled the warranty. I was lucky now i still have full coverage until the value of the repair is more than the value of the truck. A week after the cam job the heater core stopped up. Another 100.00 and I was on the road again. The lifetime warranty was the best purchase I ever made. I paid 2,200.00 for it.

Gregket1 said:

So I was planning on a preemptive cam/lifter swap on my 2014 1500 with 54,000 miles to avoid the shrapnel in the engine. Last oil change I cut open the filter and found metal flakes: no longer preemptive.
View attachment 539813View attachment 539814

Every lifter was still in perfect shape: rollers have no wear, roll perfectly, have no vertical play, yet the cam is losing metal for no reason.

Very odd and annoying.

Greg

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It's presumptive to blame the cam without knowing the metallurgy of the debris because it is possible that metal particles released by something else got under the lifter roller and caused cam lobe surface damage. You say the lifter rollers were "smooth," but I would find it strange if there were no impact evidence on the roller surface as well. Maybe a picture, if you have the chance?

In the second photo between the second and third lobes, is that oil sludge? If it is that indicates excessive moisture in the oil and might explain the cam lobe damage.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 107973 miles.

I pulled a hemi apart for rebuild and during the teardown, I observed an almost grease like substance in the oil gallery in the vicinity of the the left front main cap bolt. It got me wondering if our "tic" problem has a restricted oil flow problem in that area. The cam lobe that failed was on the left as well. #3 cyl

Very interesting and troubling report. Thanks for the info and pics.
It is surprising to see that nothing unusual was shown in the oil analysis, but there were metal chunks in the oil filter. Goes to show oil analysis doesn't give you the whole story.
I did install a magnetic drain plug and I'd think metal would show up there too. Looks like I'll start cutting open my oil filters as well.

Gregket1 said:

I decided to try something I haven’t seen before: I used a vacuum pump and vacuum tank and put all the lifters and pushrods in a bucket of oil in the system. I pulled -28” Hg of pressure for several cycles then on the last cycle let the pump run until no more bubbles came out. This guarantees that every new lifter and every push rod is completely full before I start the system. I also plan to do a no-start crank until oil pressure before letting it actually start.

I’ll let you know tomorrow how it goes.

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Well, this worked perfectly. Not a single click or clack when I started it up.

Sadly, P0013 popped up on the test drive. Anyone know if/where the external connections for the vvt are and how I might verify functionality before I tear the intake manifold off?

What's spring pressure supposed to be on these hemis?

Gregket1 said:

Well, this worked perfectly. Not a single click or clack when I started it up.

Sadly, P0013 popped up on the test drive. Anyone know if/where the external connections for the vvt are and how I might verify functionality before I tear the intake manifold off?

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Not 100% sure but maybe similar connection behind intake like this 2010 Charger.
About 19:55 into video

Maybe ya forgot plug connector back

Hardracer said:

What's spring pressure supposed to be on these hemis?

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Dusty said:

It's presumptive to blame the cam without knowing the metallurgy of the debris because it is possible that metal particles released by something else got under the lifter roller and caused cam lobe surface damage. You say the lifter rollers were "smooth," but I would find it strange if there were no impact evidence on the roller surface as well. Maybe a picture, if you have the chance?

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Unfortunately they ended up in the trash before I saw your request. I did not see any damage as I cleaned, rolled, tested each of them.

Dusty said:

In the second photo between the second and third lobes, is that oil sludge? If it is that indicates excessive moisture in the oil and might explain the cam lobe damage.

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I agree. As I dug into the engine I found other signs of previous issues. Sludge in pockets of the heads, spots of rust on the lifters. Smell of “cooked oil”.

I wonder if it got overheated in the past and/or blew a head gasket. No idea. I bought it from a California dealer and the previous owner was in Colorado. How it got from A to B, I wish I knew.

Dusty said:

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 107973 miles.

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crackerjack1957 said:

Factory Engine Specs?

Ok, so this maybe a long shot on some of the things I am asking for but I wanted to see what you guys knew and what we know about our STOCK 09+ Hemi engines. I have compiled a list of questions and lets see if we can answer them? This is purely for informational reasons only. If you can add to...

www.ramforum.com

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Really nice share! Thank you.

crackerjack1957 said:

Not 100% sure but maybe similar connection behind intake like this 2010 Charger.
About 19:55 into video

Fixed P0013 Code! Complete repair of this code caused by mice. 2010 Dodge Challenger 5.7L Hemi

Complete repair of P0013 Code on 2010 Dodge Challenger 5.7L Hemi engine. Also discuss optional repair and remedies. Replacement of the Camshaft Solenoid an...

www.youtube.com

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Not that I’ve found, yet. But wiring harnesses on moparparts.com seem to indicate “yes”. Will tear it down a third time.

crackerjack1957 said:

Maybe ya forgot plug connector back

P0013 and U0140 after changing Spark plugs

I changed my sparkplugs out (that is a story in of itself full of cursing, frustration, and death threats to the engineers) and now my engine is throwing these codes. P0013 and U0140. I have researched these codes and know what they are, but how could I have caused this just be changing the...

www.ramforum.com

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I never disconnected it. But tear down #2 confirmed it was connected. And got “reconnected” to a new vvt solenoid. Same failure after restart.

I’m thinking I have to cut open the harness and trace wires by hand.

Blech.

crackerjack1957 said:

Maybe ya forgot plug connector back

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Mea culpa.
I finally found a picture of the mds wiring harness that lives under the intake. There is indeed a big connector on the end. It doesn’t actually need to be disconnected at all but I guess I didn’t realize that on the first tear down.

Both the connector and its mate were folded down behind the head under the brake master cylinder. Connected them back up and the error cleared itself after 3 startups.