For the guys who think deactivating the mds via a tune is a good idea

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

HEMIMANN

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Military
Joined
Dec 7, 2020
Posts
6,897
Reaction score
17,468
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Ram Year
2017 2500 Laramie Crew Cab
Engine
6.4L HEMI
Tom Hoover was the engineer behind the revamped 09 block,and i think he knew there'd be cam issues,as he originally spec'd a billet cam for the engine,but was over ruled by the bean counters.With a decent cam core,there doesn't seem to be as many issues, alot of the after market cams are using a better cam core then Ma Mopar does.

could put a GD oiler on the lifters, too. spray jet, or full time bore galley, whatevs. but no - cheap cam and no oiling for a race car motor for retail customers.

sheer genius
 

mikeru

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Posts
2,934
Reaction score
4,054
Location
The Palouse
Ram Year
2020 Limited
Engine
Hemi 5.7L
Tom Hoover was the engineer behind the revamped 09 block,and i think he knew there'd be cam issues,as he originally spec'd a billet cam for the engine,but was over ruled by the bean counters.With a decent cam core,there doesn't seem to be as many issues, alot of the after market cams are using a better cam core then Ma Mopar does.
That's good to know. Not surprising either. That would help explain why the cam wears to a degree, but it doesn't explain the lifter rollers failing. From what I've seen it's the lifters which fail first, then taking out the cam.
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,128
Reaction score
24,598
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
That's good to know. Not surprising either. That would help explain why the cam wears to a degree, but it doesn't explain the lifter rollers failing. From what I've seen it's the lifters which fail first, then taking out the cam.
A few of the higher end Hemi builders think the cam lobes starts to delaminate first,then the roller starts to skid on the lobe and develops a flat spot in a matter of miles. That's where the theory of Chrysler using to light a valve spring also comes into play,as the spring once it got some miles on it,and has fatigued to some extent,allows the lifter to bounce,which in turn hammers the lobe,and contributes to the cam delamination.
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,128
Reaction score
24,598
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
could put a GD oiler on the lifters, too. spray jet, or full time bore galley, whatevs. but no - cheap cam and no oiling for a race car motor for retail customers.

sheer genius
I've always thought something similiar to the piston squirters used in the 6.1's /6.2's and 6.4's would of been better utilized if they pointed at the cam lobes,instead of the pistons wrist pin.Even a small hole drilled in line with each cam lobe,from the VVT tunnel that would spray a small stream of oil onto the lobes would of accomplished alot to
 

Dan Topp

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Posts
795
Reaction score
1,340
Location
Jefferson Wisconsin
Ram Year
2019
Engine
5.7
I like my 19 1500 5.7 30k and am waiting for our tuner to figure out the trans tuning before the 1-7/8 SW headers and exhaust that’s been sitting around for a while,they managed to get a safe tune on the blower but was surprised by the torque induced downshifting on the dyno. I would gladly ditch the cam and heads if I was sure it was a real fix and forget.I hate the vibration from the MDS.
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,128
Reaction score
24,598
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
I like my 19 1500 5.7 30k and am waiting for our tuner to figure out the trans tuning before the 1-7/8 SW headers and exhaust that’s been sitting around for a while,they managed to get a safe tune on the blower but was surprised by the torque induced downshifting on the dyno. I would gladly ditch the cam and heads if I was sure it was a real fix and forget.I hate the vibration from the MDS.
I think there's a way to lock the 8 speed into 6th so it doesn't downshift on the dyno Dan. There doesn't seem to be as many issues with the better aftermarket cams once you delete the solenoids and use the later lifters aka: Hellcat lifters as everybody seems to call them.There's also the Johnson lifters with the axle oiling feature,that alot of the higher end shops are using these days.
 

Harley Harrold

USAF Ret. 36+ years service
Military
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Posts
6,056
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Mississippi
Ram Year
2007
Engine
5.7L HEMI
On my 2007 Quad Cab 1500, rwd, 5.7L HEMI truck, I turned off MDS thru my tuner in may 2014 @ 60K miles. I now have 103K+ miles on the truck. That is 43K+ miles without the activation of the MDS system. Still runs strong, has had the tick since I purchased the truck in 2013 @ 57K miles. My oil pressure on a 90° day is 50 psi @ 1,000+ rpm, & 27 @ 550+ rpm idle. I run AMSOIL Synthetic engine oil. I do not let my truck idle for very long, if it will be more than a few minutes, I run the rpms up for a few minutes. I know one day I will replace the valve train on this engine with aftermarket parts. Maybe this truck will outlast me in the long run.
 

BlackSheepRebel

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2021
Posts
159
Reaction score
158
Location
The Matrix
Ram Year
2021
Engine
Hemi 5.7
I've been against defeating the mds via the -/+ or a tune for a few years now G,lol. I've been trying to get the idea across for awhile ,if you're going to defeat the mds do it properly, you might say i've had some push back,lol
Reignited also has a video up all about it to.
At about the 14 minute mark he shows the Mopar plugs.

This. The truth is out there.

That said, I personally hate loss of power, crappy sound and generally not having the V8 I paid for… which is why I’ve disabled DOD/MDS/whatever in every truck I’ve owned since this became a “feature.” Shame it’s such a big deal for our trucks.

Taking the middle road now and only selectively disabling when it particularly bothers me until I can do a proper (expensive!) delete.

No excuse by now for not being aware of the impact it can have!
 

ramffml

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Posts
2,855
Reaction score
5,260
Location
ramforum
Ram Year
2019
Engine
hemi 5.7
I got an idea. Why don't you all donate a few hundred to the cause (ie: me) and I'll have someone tear down my engine and look at the lifters. Course while they're in there they may as well do some uh minor upgrades like a cam and MDS delete, but hey maybe we'll at least get some answers when it comes to lifter condition after 60k and no MDS.

It's a deal of the decade :33:
 

CanuckRam1313

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2022
Posts
1,217
Reaction score
2,610
Location
Ontario Canada
Ram Year
2023 Warlock SLT
Engine
5.7
Well.... thanks to this thread (thanks @Wild one .... lol) I engage my MDs when on the highway travelling at speed.

When in town and/or in traffic on the highway I disable it with my gear selector. I loathe the experience of the feeling of MDS on in these driving experiences!

So, I now offset everything by turning it on when I can have free-flowing highway speeds, and turn it off at all other times.
 

CanuckRam1313

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2022
Posts
1,217
Reaction score
2,610
Location
Ontario Canada
Ram Year
2023 Warlock SLT
Engine
5.7
I got an idea. Why don't you all donate a few hundred to the cause (ie: me) and I'll have someone tear down my engine and look at the lifters. Course while they're in there they may as well do some uh minor upgrades like a cam and MDS delete, but hey maybe we'll at least get some answers when it comes to lifter condition after 60k and no MDS.

It's a deal of the decade :33:
@ramffml for president - ;)
 

RD Holland

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Posts
24
Reaction score
17
Location
Madison Alabama
Ram Year
2019
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Can keeping trailer haul mode on prevent failure? If so, is there a way to always run with it on? Even when my 2017 RAM detects I am hauling my bass boat, I still have to turn on trailer haul mode manually.
 

ramffml

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Posts
2,855
Reaction score
5,260
Location
ramforum
Ram Year
2019
Engine
hemi 5.7
Can keeping trailer haul mode on prevent failure? If so, is there a way to always run with it on? Even when my 2017 RAM detects I am hauling my bass boat, I still have to turn on trailer haul mode manually.

That's just the problem with this theory. When you enable T/H, the theory says you're damaging your lifters because T/H will prevent MDS from engaging.
 

Dan Topp

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Posts
795
Reaction score
1,340
Location
Jefferson Wisconsin
Ram Year
2019
Engine
5.7
I think there's a way to lock the 8 speed into 6th so it doesn't downshift on the dyno Dan. There doesn't seem to be as many issues with the better aftermarket cams once you delete the solenoids and use the later lifters aka: Hellcat lifters as everybody seems to call them.There's also the Johnson lifters with the axle oiling feature,that alot of the higher end shops are using these days.
Thanks I was getting on their case about it yesterday when putting a clutch on my vette,the boxes the headers and exhaust take up a lot of space.How do you keep the 6-2 downshifts from happening?They are using HP.
 

EriikK

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2022
Posts
63
Reaction score
92
Location
Ann Arbor MI USA
Ram Year
2015
Engine
6.4 Hemi
Here is one data point. My 2014 6.4 at 90k miles had only one significantly worn roller and cam lobe. That one was *not* an MDS lifter. Some other lobes had 'skid marks' on them but there was not a clear correlation between them and which ones have MDS. All the rollers felt smooth rolling them by hand.

I replaced with latest Mopar MDS lifters, but I did not look closely at the roller bearings to see if they are different.

So I guess that puts me in the 'MDS isn't the main problem' camp. And I will shorten my oil change intervals. I always use the specified PUP oil but I don't know what the previous owner did for the first 80k miles.
 
Top