1997 5.9 L Truck just died on freeway

[pacofortacos]

It gets tougher to both try to troubleshoot over a computer and in person if there isn't anything as far as codes.
It could be as simple as a bad coil (those do fail) or a bad coil wire/cap/rotor.
It could be as hard as a PCM (fairly rare to go bad), shorted sensor, broken wire, bad ground.
There are 3 wires on most of the sensors, a critical ground wire (I think black/w blue tracer), a 5 V feed wire, and the return wire to the PCM.

How good are you at troubleshooting and finding wiring diagrams?

You could try disconnecting the coil and seeing if there is any voltage between the 2 wires when you crank it (trying to start it and the motor turns over).

 

[DodgeLady]

I’m a pretty good electronic troubleshooter if I do say so myself- I work in the electronics industry - but admit my engine knowledge somewhat lacking...but I have the manual with all the wiring diagrams. Just feeling overwhelmed!
I did not make progress today but do want to follow your suggestion of removing the battery ground for at least 20 min and then trying for a code!
I really appreciate the info you are sharing. Thank you!!


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[DodgeLady]

Update here. I’m in severely over my head. Not feeling very invincible. Lol!
Anyway, my plan is to tow the Dodge to a highly recommended shop on Monday. See what they say. Thanks all here for the help. I hope to get a or some codes tomorrow following the advice here. I will keep you posted!


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[El Huapo]

Hi DodgeLady! Woke up thinking about your truck. Pacofortacos & others are doing a good job offering good suggestions, nice. I have some rumbling around in my head too:
First thought--on some old Fords, the distributor quits turning because a cold-rolled-pin shears off. If you lift the distributor cap and get it clear, note the position of the rotor, bump the starter, then look to see if the rotor turned some, you'll know that the distributor is turning (or not). That will also tell you that the camshaft is at least turning and connected via the chain to the crankshaft. Cam chains on high-mileage vehicles have been known to jump time, meaning moved over a tooth or two due to a loose chain---but you would likely get some "barks" back through the intake when trying to start it.
Note: I should have asked earlier about the cranking---they mean does the engine rotate when you hit the key but not start running. Sometimes people just say it won't start when the starter isn't operating, true but not quite enough info for a diagnosis.
Second thought--if the engine needs a ground, and you have jumper cables, connect one side of the cables to the engine in a good bare spot and the other end to the negative of the battery then crank it. If it's a bad ground problem, I think the engine should start, no?
Third thought--if it's a fuel delivery issue, I have always eliminated that by squirting a SHORT burst of starter fluid (ether, I think) into the air inlet---cautiously. I think yours is very like my old 2001 5.9l, so pull the air cleaner and spray just a bit into the intake right on the engine. Probably could spray it through the plastic bits but I usually had the air cleaner assembly off by that time.
Last thought--There's no shame in having to throw in the towel when you're not a professional mechanic and don't have the $4,000 scanner, etc. I hate to give jobs away too, but sometimes.... And I admire the way you've kept your long-time truck-friend running. Perseverance counts for a lot. Hope it doesn't turn out expensive.

 

[DodgeLady]

Hi DodgeLady! Woke up thinking about your truck. Pacofortacos & others are doing a good job offering good suggestions, nice. I have some rumbling around in my head too:
First thought--on some old Fords, the distributor quits turning because a cold-rolled-pin shears off. If you lift the distributor cap and get it clear, note the position of the rotor, bump the starter, then look to see if the rotor turned some, you'll know that the distributor is turning (or not). That will also tell you that the camshaft is at least turning and connected via the chain to the crankshaft. Cam chains on high-mileage vehicles have been known to jump time, meaning moved over a tooth or two due to a loose chain---but you would likely get some "barks" back through the intake when trying to start it.
Note: I should have asked earlier about the cranking---they mean does the engine rotate when you hit the key but not start running. Sometimes people just say it won't start when the starter isn't operating, true but not quite enough info for a diagnosis.
Second thought--if the engine needs a ground, and you have jumper cables, connect one side of the cables to the engine in a good bare spot and the other end to the negative of the battery then crank it. If it's a bad ground problem, I think the engine should start, no?
Third thought--if it's a fuel delivery issue, I have always eliminated that by squirting a SHORT burst of starter fluid (ether, I think) into the air inlet---cautiously. I think yours is very like my old 2001 5.9l, so pull the air cleaner and spray just a bit into the intake right on the engine. Probably could spray it through the plastic bits but I usually had the air cleaner assembly off by that time.
Last thought--There's no shame in having to throw in the towel when you're not a professional mechanic and don't have the $4,000 scanner, etc. I hate to give jobs away too, but sometimes.... And I admire the way you've kept your long-time truck-friend running. Perseverance counts for a lot. Hope it doesn't turn out expensive.

Thanks for the detailed instructions. One thing that has daunted me is that I can’t even SEE the distributor from the top side. It’s way in the back at the bottom of everything. It’s hot outside and I’d have to jerry rig jacks to hold it up and it’s just overwhelming to me. So tomorrow it’s going to the pros. I’ll be sure to let everyone know what is wrong!
Thanks again EH!


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[DodgeLady]

So... reading the service manual at 4 am... again...seems I can access distributor easily by removing the air filter. Tempting to try that but I’m going to have it towed to shop.


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[DodgeLady]

It gets tougher to both try to troubleshoot over a computer and in person if there isn't anything as far as codes.
It could be as simple as a bad coil (those do fail) or a bad coil wire/cap/rotor.
It could be as hard as a PCM (fairly rare to go bad), shorted sensor, broken wire, bad ground.
There are 3 wires on most of the sensors, a critical ground wire (I think black/w blue tracer), a 5 V feed wire, and the return wire to the PCM.

How good are you at troubleshooting and finding wiring diagrams?

You could try disconnecting the coil and seeing if there is any voltage between the 2 wires when you crank it (trying to start it and the motor turns over).

I did the 20 min plus battery disconnect... still no codes.
I’m crying UNCLE and the truck is off to some experts...
I will keep you posted!
Thanks Paco!


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[DodgeLady]

Heard from the shop.
Bad camshaft position sensor.
They will replace entire distributor and the crankshaft position sensor ( recommended).
Change oil
Tow
$762

Happy camper am I!


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[DodgeLady]

If the camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor is bad I'm not 100% positive but I think it will cause the engine computer to turn off automatic shutdown (ASD)relay. This maybe why you don't have spark

Bad camshaft position sensor!
The Dodge lives on!


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[DodgeLady]

Disconnect the battery, then reconnect it and crank it - see if it sets any codes.

Cam (part in the distributor ) or crank sensor can cause what happened.
No fuel could too.
Bad wire could too.
Bad coil could, but usually sputters a bit more.
Quite a few possibilities.

Checking for codes is a good place to start and some codes will not show up until after a battery disconnect and retry of starting - at least on most of the older Mopar lines. I dealt mainly with cars but mopar is pretty good about keeping the computer stuff pretty standard.

You were right on Paco!!
Bad camshaft position sensor!


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[pacofortacos]

Don't normally need to replace the distributor or crankshaft sensor, but it won't hurt to replace both.

Glad it will be fixed.

If they went with aftermarket parts, ask what the warranty is on them - often times some parts have lifetime warranty.

You are welcome, it must have still put out an intermittent signal, otherwise it should have thrown a code.

 

[DodgeLady]

Don't normally need to replace the distributor or crankshaft sensor, but it won't hurt to replace both.

Glad it will be fixed.

If they went with aftermarket parts, ask what the warranty is on them - often times some parts have lifetime warranty.

You are welcome, it must have still put out an intermittent signal, otherwise it should have thrown a code.

It did throw a code for them... so it must be my reader or operator error.


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[ViolentMouse]

Glad you got it fixed, sorry I was late to the party. I would have directed you straight to the crankshaft sensor for no spark.

Easy test for the 5.9

No spark = use a scanner, while cranking the motor check the rpms on the scan tool. if they never move... bad crank sensor.
No fuel = using a noid light on one of the fuel injector plugs, while cranking if it does not flash, bad cam sensor or security key has tripped.

the crank and cam sensor are correlated using fuel sync only they do not affect each others function.

 

[DodgeLady]

Glad you got it fixed, sorry I was late to the party. I would have directed you straight to the crankshaft sensor for no spark.

Easy test for the 5.9

No spark = use a scanner, while cranking the motor check the rpms on the scan tool. if they never move... bad crank sensor.
No fuel = using a noid light on one of the fuel injector plugs, while cranking if it does not flash, bad cam sensor or security key has tripped.

the crank and cam sensor are correlated using fuel sync only they do not affect each others function.

Thanks VM. I don’t have a scanner but I think it’s a tool I will look into getting.
What do you mean by a “ noid ” light on one of the fuel injector plugs?
Also - what is the security key you refer to? Is this a key on the PCM?
Scanner- something I can safely by used from Craigslist - or better to get new?


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[pacofortacos]

I have always used scanners, and with a good scanner, it is easy to see what is going on.

 

[MADDOG]

Well that's good news...except for the bill of course.

Glad they found the problem!

 

[DodgeLady]

I just looked at scanners... wide range of prices and hence functionality I suppose.


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[Joe w.]

Glad you found out what it was

 

[DodgeLady]

Don't normally need to replace the distributor or crankshaft sensor, but it won't hurt to replace both.

Glad it will be fixed.

If they went with aftermarket parts, ask what the warranty is on them - often times some parts have lifetime warranty.

You are welcome, it must have still put out an intermittent signal, otherwise it should have thrown a code.

This shop says only OEM parts...
They warranty the repairs for one year. I’ll have to see if it’s the same for parts.


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[pacofortacos]

Personally I am a fan of OEM sensors, they tend to be or at least used to be far superior to most aftermarket stuff.

I can't help on the scanner, I have only used snap on and the mopar DRB 3.