2015 6.4 or 6.7 ?

[avolnek]

I am not going to argue about the difference in towing. Diesels have been out long enough that people expect a gas engine to lug fully loaded at 2000 rpm and that is just not going to happen. If you keep a gas engine in the proper rpm range it will pull and not hunt for gears but people are not comfortable with the rpm. It does not mean it is not capable it is just a different animal. Now admittedly I have no experience with hills and mountains. All we have down here is the I-10 bridge over the calcasieu river and it is like 6%. I have pulled plenty of heavy trailers over it and was able to keep up with traffic just fine. Granted it does not go on for miles and miles but anyone buying a truck should definately consider the terrain. The read ups on the Ike tunnel challenges are entertaining but it does not influence what truck I buy because I will never drive there.

I was referring directly to my personal experiences with the 6.4 Hemi. Flat towing on the interstate at 62 mph, manually locked into 4th gear with my 5th wheel the truck would cruise at ~2700 rpm which was acceptable in my book.

What the Hemi didn't have at that point was enough grunt to accelerate without first down shifting nor the torque to maintain that speed up any moderate hill. I seen 3rd gear jumping up to 3500 rpm and 2nd gear a number of times...

I am not ******* on the 6.4, i truly liked that motor! For a gas engine that thing was a power house and had i never towed with a diesel prior i'd certainly brag about it. But having towed with a diesel and now again towing with a diesel after trying a big block gasser I can honestly tell you it wont happen again...

Mileage, power, stability and resale all outweigh the only true negative of cost factor hands down in my opinion...

Have you looked at a year or two old diesels? they sell for what a new truck sells for virtually while the gas engines drop nearly 10 grand...

 

[drittal]

Because a NA gas motor needs to rev! It stays in a higher gear for fuel mileage until you need more power, then it shifts to find the power you are needing from it.

So many think that just because the CTD isn't revving that it isn't working. Wrong! That neat turbo whistle is the sound of your truck working hard. That little, multi thousand dollar piece, is spinning at ungodly rpm (30,000?) Stuffing close to 2x as much air in the cylinders as an NA motor creating super high cylinder pressures and lots of heat!

And then my favorite comment about a diesel, "It's only got 100,000 miles on it. It's just getting broke in." Hey, that's probably true, yet the rest of the the truck is just as worn as a gasser with 100,000 and all the little things start going to hell and adding up fast. Only on a diesel those little things related to the motor are 4x as much to replace.

 

[avolnek]

Because a NA gas motor needs to rev! It stays in a higher gear for fuel mileage until you need more power, then it shifts to find the power you are needing from it.

So many think that just because the CTD isn't revving that it isn't working. Wrong! That neat turbo whistle is the sound of your truck working hard. That little, multi thousand dollar piece, is spinning at ungodly rpm (30,000?) Stuffing close to 2x as much air in the cylinders as an NA motor creating super high cylinder pressures and lots of heat!

And then my favorite comment about a diesel, "It's only got 100,000 miles on it. It's just getting broke in." Hey, that's probably true, yet the rest of the the truck is just as worn as a gasser with 100,000 and all the little things start going to hell and adding up fast. Only on a diesel those little things related to the motor are 4x as much to replace.

My last diesel was a 2006 quad cab short box 5.9 cummins with the automatic 48re with just under 200,000 miles when I traded it off. The only things I ever did to it was change fluids, filters and serp belt twice... Doesn't seem too bad... Then when I traded I still got $24,000 in trade value...

I am aware that a gas engine has to rev to create the power, regardless of how hard it works or how hard it revs it will never replace the diesel engine...

I'm not bragging or boasting, i am simply putting that the difference in towability is night and day difference...

Is the gas engine sufficient? sure it is, in some circumstances, it all comes down to the standards and needs of the owner.

 

[drittal]

My last diesel had under 150,000. 3 glow plugs, 2 injectors, clutch, hydraulic clutch cylinder, broken front leaf spring...

My father's 98.5 had just ober 150k, high pressure injector pump, fuel pump (high went first left him stranded, 2 month later the low went and left him stranded, Trans rebuilt 2x (only second time left him steanded), dash was cracked, cup holder broken, window switches on driver side worked sometimes, etc...

I forgot to add his 2012 Ram he purchased new to replace that one has about $4000 in aftermarket to get more than 12mpg empty. He's at 16 now.

 

[avolnek]

My last diesel had under 150,000. 3 glow plugs, 2 injectors, clutch, hydraulic clutch cylinder, broken front leaf spring...

My father's 98.5 had just ober 150k, high pressure injector pump, fuel pump (high went first left him stranded, 2 month later the low went and left him stranded, Trans rebuilt 2x (only second time left him steanded), dash was cracked, cup holder broken, window switches on driver side worked sometimes, etc...

I forgot to add his 2012 Ram he purchased new to replace that one has about $4000 in aftermarket to get more than 12mpg empty. He's at 16 now.

First, your diesel was apparently a Ford with front leaf springs and glow plugs, buy a ram, problem solved...

Second, your dad's second gen had minimal issues with the diesel portion of it. The trans and electrical components are capable of failing any truck...

Thirdly, a pre DEF truck WONT get the mileage that the newer ones are, thats part of the game... Empty my 2015 is 20+ mpg at 65 mph... My first experience towing my 5th wheel through some nasty hills netted me 9 mpg hand calculated... Truck's not even close to broke in and still out performing the gas engine...

Say what you will but full synthetic oil and filter is going to cost nearly the same as what a standard oil change of diesel is going to, especially when you consider many diesel owners will stretch their changes out to 10,000 miles...

Filling the DEF is more of a pain in the butt than anything, really cost is minimal at 2.5 gallon jugs at walmart for $12 and figuring a gallon will stretch you 1000 miles cost is almost irrelevant.

So honestly the only significant cost factor difference in my opinion would be fuel filters for the diesel... Which if you want to get technical cost about the same as a plug change on the hemi, albeit not as frequent...

Food for thought is all... I dont think the OP could go wrong with either...

 

[Boudreaux]

I deffinately agree with you on the trade value, that's why my opinion is that if the original poster is going to be trading every couple of years to go diesel if he needs it or not. That is, in my opinion the diesels biggest advantage. They hold their value no doubt about it

 

[Firebird]

Honestly, for long distance towing, I prefer the Cummins (owned 4 of them). However, the Hemi is a very capable engine to tow with. I have even towed my tractor (JD 4120 with bush hog and loader) just fine with my 1500's. The 5.7 had more than enough power to do the job.

 

[spoon059]

I wouldn't recommend going that far over your payload. The 3500 axle can take it because it is simple, there are welds for spring perches and shock brackets and that is it. So structurally it is stronger than the 2500 axle which has welds all over it which will break if overloaded much. I've never seen it happen to a truck in the field, just in testing.

Oh goodness no... I would never recommend someone do that. I was just pointing out that the axle is the same and the frame is the same. Like I said in that post... if you need that kind of capacity you need a 3500.

 

[SouthTexan]

First, your diesel was apparently a Ford with front leaf springs and glow plugs, buy a ram, problem solved...

Second, your dad's second gen had minimal issues with the diesel portion of it. The trans and electrical components are capable of failing any truck...

Thirdly, a pre DEF truck WONT get the mileage that the newer ones are, thats part of the game... Empty my 2015 is 20+ mpg at 65 mph... My first experience towing my 5th wheel through some nasty hills netted me 9 mpg hand calculated... Truck's not even close to broke in and still out performing the gas engine...

There is also the factor of the two fuel filters on these new trucks. The two things that will kill injectors and a high pressure fuel pump on a diesel is water and particulate contaminates. This is why most of your heavy duty class 8 trucks have two fuel filters and why aftermarket secondary fuel filter market is big in the light duty class 2 and 3 diesel fleet world. Although the 3 micron filter that came with the 2007.5+ 6.7L is far better than the filters that came with Drittal' Dad's Ford, Ram added another 3 micron fuel water separator in the 2013+ diesels. Ford did this in recent years in their diesels as well.

Although as I said earlier, a half ton is more than enough for most people's towing needs here. Some people here choose to pay more for a three quarter ton, more up front for the 6.4L, more in preventative maintenance cost, and more for the 3-4 mpg less in the three quarter ton versus a 5.7L half ton that will easily tow 8,000 lbs because they want to. The extra costs is worth it for them for better towing and more power by upgrading to a 6.4L 2500. The same can be said in the 6.4L versus 6.7L debate. There is no doubt that the 6.7L is a way more powerful towing option over the 6.4L, but it depends on whether the added cost associated with a diesel is worth the upgrade in power and ability or not. For some it is and others it isn't. Although as I have always said with any purchase, choose the one you will be kicking yourself for not getting later.

 

[drittal]

Second, your dad's second gen had minimal issues with the diesel portion of it. The trans and electrical components are capable of failing any truck.

This is my point. The long block of the cummins likely last hundreds of thousands of mile.

Everything around it likely will not, they will only last as long as the same part in a gasser. Body, interior, electronics...

 

[avolnek]

This is my point. The long block of the cummins likely last hundreds of thousands of mile.

Everything around it likely will not, they will only last as long as the same part in a gasser. Body, interior, electronics...

Even with that being the case, many folks with higher mileage diesels are likely to repair said components knowing that the heart of the truck is still reliable and still worth while... many trucks have gone in for transmissions, axles ect ect... why? because if maintained the trucks are worth it....

 

[SilverSurfer15]

Sorry to drag this off topic a little bit, but does anyone know if the 5 year/100k mile warranty applies to everything diesel related? I haven't read the fine print, but say an injector goes out at 50k, still covered for free?

If you read the powerstroke, and especially the duramax, warranty details you will see they basically don't cover anything past 12-36k miles depending on what it is. If I recall, GM only covers injectors for 12k miles but don't quote me on that.

 

[avolnek]

Sorry to drag this off topic a little bit, but does anyone know if the 5 year/100k mile warranty applies to everything diesel related? I haven't read the fine print, but say an injector goes out at 50k, still covered for free?

If you read the powerstroke, and especially the duramax, warranty details you will see they basically don't cover anything past 12-36k miles depending on what it is. If I recall, GM only covers injectors for 12k miles but don't quote me on that.

Sure is, http://www.ramtrucks.com/shared/pdf/warranty/2015-RAM_25_35_Diesel-Generic_Warranty-1st.pdf.

Another huge selling factor for buying new, right there...

 

[SilverSurfer15]

^^ nice, thanks!

 

[ramessesII]

Parked next to 2014 RAM 3500 CTD at the shooting range this morning. A few hours later, the guy came over and asked how I liked my truck, then how I liked the 6.4L. As soon as I said, it's been a great truck so far, he went off on how much he hates the diesel. Not the 6.7 in particular, but being a diesel owner and all the associated costs and issues. He said he's trading his in for a 6.4 this month and that his neighbor was doing the same.

 

[SouthTexan]

Hmmm, profile was just created a few days ago. Hemifatboy round 2?

 

[Boudreaux]

Sure is, http://www.ramtrucks.com/shared/pdf/warranty/2015-RAM_25_35_Diesel-Generic_Warranty-1st.pdf.

Another huge selling factor for buying new, right there...

I have never owned a diesel but I work with a lot of people who do. Now this is make wide not just ram, everyone with an injector issue had the warranty claim denied and they had to claim it on insurance. Dealers claimed bad fuel and not a manufacturer defect. This went for ford, gm, and ram.

 

[Hemifatboy]

South Texan your wrong again but Thats nothing new ,anyone that disagrees with you is me , Blahahaha how paranoid

 

[SouthTexan]

I have never owned a diesel but I work with a lot of people who do. Now this is make wide not just ram, everyone with an injector issue had the warranty claim denied and they had to claim it on insurance. Dealers claimed bad fuel and not a manufacturer defect. This went for ford, gm, and ram.

Where do you live? Is it humid and hot during day and cool at night?

 

[cptwing]

......Mileage, power, stability and resale all outweigh the only true negative of cost factor hands down in my opinion...

Have you looked at a year or two old diesels? they sell for what a new truck sells for virtually while the gas engines drop nearly 10 grand...

For now Diesel fuel is about the same as gasoline around here. When I bought my truck it was averaging around 50 cents more a gallon add the cost of the DEF about 10 cents worth of DEF per gallon of fuel. When I figured in the added cost of the fuel at about 60 cents a gallon and the extra 7 to 8 thousand more for the cummings it did not make sense for me.

No question about the power and the ability to tow much more weight, but for my needs the 6.4 has plenty of power.

Stability, how is the diesel more stable because the engine weighs more? All that does is decrease the payload capacity, if you want stability would not dual wheels be more of a factor?

How do you come up with this 10k drop? What age and mileage are you figuring for that? My truck is a 2014 3500 4x4 6.4l RC DRW ST with 13,500 mi I paid $31,000 out the door for it in March of 2014. I just got a trade in appraisal from a local dealer of $29,500 on mine, Auto trader gave me a cash offer of $28,200. If you subtract the taxes reg and fees that is almost exactly what I paid for it? I know it will depreciate more but so far this does not seem bad at all.

I'm not thinking of trading for a diesel, just thinking of getting away from Ram, have had too many bad experiences with the quality of the product and the crooked and extremely inept service available from Fiat and Fiat dealers.