2015 Pentastar V6 Towing [SUPERCHARGER SUCCESS!]

[engineering]

Trying to make the final call to determine if I should install Ripp Coilpacks while I have everything apart. It seems reasonable that an ignition upgrade would be a good call since the air/fuel charge is about 50% higher.
In the big scheme of things, $300 is not a crazy amount even if they are only considered to be 'insurance'.

A number of independent users have posted tangible dyno improvements which is good to see but I am just thinking of it as part of a complete installation of a forced induction system.

 

[PoMansRam]

Trying to make the final call to determine if I should install Ripp Coilpacks while I have everything apart. It seems reasonable that an ignition upgrade would be a good call since the air/fuel charge is about 50% higher.
In the big scheme of things, $300 is not a crazy amount even if they are only considered to be 'insurance'.

A number of independent users have posted tangible dyno improvements which is good to see but I am just thinking of it as part of a complete installation of a forced induction system.

If I read correctly, the truck only has 9K miles on it? I'd wait until #1, the oil filter housing starts to leak and needs to be replaced or #2, you need to change the spark plugs. Reason I say this is both scenarios require removal of the upper intake.

I know guys are saying these aftermarket coils are doing some magic, but there's always a cost if they are somehow producing more engine power.

 

[Robeffy]

I am going to continue to follow this thread.

I can see buying another Ram, with the V6 when I get rid of the 95 Ram 5.2. My trans needs attention on that, the front main oil seal is leaking. I get around 12 mpg.

 

[Doug Ram]

I suspect you have the same experience as I've had with towing our travel trailer with our 2019 Nissan Frontier. I've been towing a 5000lb (loaded) travel trailer with a Frontier 4.0 liter 6cyl. I am way under the trucks 6300lb towing capacity and well under the 1400lb payload capacity. Yes, it can do it. I can set the cruise control up to 65mph, and it maintains the speed well, even on steep grades. It revs freely up to over 4000 rpm sometimes and redline is far higher, over 5500 rpm.

But it's a very noisy, high revving, tiresome drive whenever there are any hills. You can't have a conversation when the engine drops a gear, and it drops a gear on every grade. And gas mileage is awful. Usually 8-9 MPG, unless I keep the speed under 55 MPH, when I can get 10.

Your truck has the same problem. Its a high revving engine. You are within the safe limits of its capacity. But it's a high revving noisy engine. I don't see how getting a lower rear axle or turbocharging will fix that. The engine still needs to rev to power up over those hills. The lower gear axle will help acceleration from stop or low speeds, but at above 50, its going to be just as noisy and obnoxious. Turbocharging will increase power output, but you still need the revs. And gas mileage will take a hit. And you don't have a very big tank to start with.

Frankly, unless you are towing long distances and/or frequently, I would leave the truck as you got it. Your modifications are going to hurt every day gas mileage, towing gas mileage, increase engine wear, and possibly affect the life of the transmission.

What did I do? I sold the Frontier to my kid, who needed a good truck for her video business. I ordered a Ram Ecodiesel. It's towing capacities are only a bit higher than what I have now, but its going to be a much nicer drive. Quiet. Better gas mileage. Which is important since we are planning on doing long transcontinental trips over the next 10 years. Going to every National Park in the USA, Canada and Mexico. If I wasn't planning those kind of trips, I would have kept the Frontier.

 

[NewBlackDak]

I suspect you have the same experience as I've had with towing our travel trailer with our 2019 Nissan Frontier. I've been towing a 5000lb (loaded) travel trailer with a Frontier 4.0 liter 6cyl. I am way under the trucks 6300lb towing capacity and well under the 1400lb payload capacity. Yes, it can do it. I can set the cruise control up to 65mph, and it maintains the speed well, even on steep grades. It revs freely up to over 4000 rpm sometimes and redline is far higher, over 5500 rpm.

But it's a very noisy, high revving, tiresome drive whenever there are any hills. You can't have a conversation when the engine drops a gear, and it drops a gear on every grade. And gas mileage is awful. Usually 8-9 MPG, unless I keep the speed under 55 MPH, when I can get 10.

Your truck has the same problem. Its a high revving engine. You are within the safe limits of its capacity. But it's a high revving noisy engine. I don't see how getting a lower rear axle or turbocharging will fix that. The engine still needs to rev to power up over those hills. The lower gear axle will help acceleration from stop or low speeds, but at above 50, its going to be just as noisy and obnoxious. Turbocharging will increase power output, but you still need the revs. And gas mileage will take a hit. And you don't have a very big tank to start with.

Frankly, unless you are towing long distances and/or frequently, I would leave the truck as you got it. Your modifications are going to hurt every day gas mileage, towing gas mileage, increase engine wear, and possibly affect the life of the transmission.

What did I do? I sold the Frontier to my kid, who needed a good truck for her video business. I ordered a Ram Ecodiesel. It's towing capacities are only a bit higher than what I have now, but its going to be a much nicer drive. Quiet. Better gas mileage. Which is important since we are planning on doing long transcontinental trips over the next 10 years. Going to every National Park in the USA, Canada and Mexico. If I wasn't planning those kind of trips, I would have kept the Frontier.

Gearing and torque multiplication means you could possibly pull the same grade in a higher gear. While the revs are higher in that gear than they were before, they aren’t as high as if the truck needed to down shift. The supercharger will have a significant increase in power at lower RPMs. It’s not like a turbocharger that needs to spool up. With both, you might be able to motor up the hill in 6th or 7th at 2000 RPM instead of dropping to third and screaming up at 4500 RPM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[engineering]

I don't see how getting a lower rear axle or turbocharging will fix that. The engine still needs to rev to power up over those hills.

The supercharger allows the engine to produce more power at a lower RPM, limiting the requirements to downshift. If all things are equal - grade, weight, gearing, etc.....but you add 100lb/ft of torque and 100hp there will be a significant difference in the final behavior of the truck.
I suspect that my typical 3rd/4th gear hills will become 5th/6th gear hills (or thereabouts )

There is still a reasonable argument to change the rear end from 3.21 to 3.92 as it takes some of the load off the transmission at the expense of a higher RPM. Not sure what will wear the transmission faster and maybe its all the same.


After a considerable amount of reading and examining my own experience - I ultimately decided that a lower RPM with high manifold pressure will likely last longer than a high RPM with low manifold pressure. Therefore .....supercharger.


The ecoDiesel would be perfect for me over the HEMI

 

[JS4024]

Trade it in for a hemi. You are truly over working that truck. Doing any add ons will only over work an under powered engine and void any warranty you might have.

 

[engineering]

Trade it in for a hemi. You are truly over working that truck. Doing any add ons will only over work an under powered engine and void any warranty you might have.

You missed the first post.......

 

[Doug Ram]

I would be interested in knowing:
- How much you want to spend.
- Whether you have considered what towing and non-towing gas mileage (and range) will be as modified.
- Whether you are going to be towing long distances up and DOWN on steep long grades at highway speeds.
- If you are doing the installation and labor yourself.
- Whether you are satisfied with it after a year.
- How long you plan to keep the truck.

I expect that in the long run you will not be happy with the noise and and durability of the engine after its modded. The car is out of warranty, but there are good reasons why FCA would cancel your warranty w/ your planned engine mod: you are putting more pressure on that engine than it was designed for. I think that FCA added a e-torque system this year because it wouldn't take a super or turbo charge well for long term.

In the right market your two wheel drive 2015 Ram with only 9,000 (!) miles would in be in high demand. I would sell it privately if possible for more money, to finance either an etorqued Hemi or an EcoDiesel. Get a Tradesman if the budget is tight, Long Horn if not. You can get any engine in any trim. Bottom line: either would be a far better truck for your purposes.... Unless you like spending time endlessly modifying and tweaking that V6 just to see what you can make it to. In that case you have at it and have fun!

 

[engineering]

First post......for those just joining.
This is not a project with a logical foundation. It is not about making the best financial decisions. It is about traveling with this exact truck close to the top of its load rating. The backstory of the truck is long and very unlikely to be interesting in the context of this thread. Suffice it to say, this truck is the one we will be using to pull our trailer until it is totally dead. All I want to do is give it the best chance of getting in and out of the challenging locations we are planning in the near future. They mostly include steep hills and high-altitudes.

Because this was handed down from my father-in-law, my wife REALLY wants to keep it and make it work for towing. So, don't bother with the typical "Get the HEMI" or "Get the Diesel". Somehow, I want to figure out how to configure this truck to better deal with towing at max weight in hills and high altitudes.

I have purpose-built a number of race cars and all manner of street car mods - painfully aware of the rabbit hole of 'upgrades'. On this project - reliability is the highest priority over raw performance. Modest boost, modest tune, overgrown cooling system, modest driving, early preventative maintenance, etc, etc.

I spoke with the folks at Sprintex and gained some confidence that the system is conservative where it needs to be. It is also reversible by design so I can bail out if it does not go well. I am even buying a totally new PCM for the project so that if I remove the system - the OEM computer is ready to go back in without ever being touched with a modification.

When the kit finally arrives, I will install it. For testing, I will hook up a data logger and drag the fully loaded system for a couple hundred miles up and down long hills to see what I see. The biggest concern is heat, so obviously looking at various built-in temp gauges. Also monitoring for knock/ping to the extent possible.

 

[engineering]

I would be interested in knowing:
- How much you want to spend.

Roughly $6k for what I have described

- Whether you have considered what towing and non-towing gas mileage (and range) will be as modified.

Of course. I am at about 11mpg over a 3,000+ mile trip from LA-DALLAS-LA. That trip will be repeated shortly after the install so I will have some real-life comparison. With the supercharger in-place - I will be driving faster and not slowing nearly as much to go up grades. Expecting the mileage to go down along with the total time of driving. I will sacrifice gas to shave a few hours of drive time.

- Whether you are going to be towing long distances up and DOWN on steep long grades at highway speeds.

Yes - that is the stated goal here.

- If you are doing the installation and labor yourself.

Yes.

- Whether you are satisfied with it after a year.
- How long you plan to keep the truck.

We shall see.
This truck will be kept until it is utterly un-serviceable. After that, it may be kept a little longer as a driveway decoration.

I expect that in the long run you will not be happy with the noise and and durability of the engine after its modded. The car is out of warranty, but there are good reasons why FCA would cancel your warranty w/ your planned engine mod: you are putting more pressure on that engine than it was designed for. I think that FCA added a e-torque system this year because it wouldn't take a super or turbo charge well for long term.

I am voiding the warranty and have no expectations otherwise. On the topic of noise, not sure what you are talking about. The exhaust and air box will remain stock. The supercharger will whine at 2300 RPM, but no more than the engine/transmission noise running at a constant 4000 RPM.

What do you know of the reliability other than random guessing? What do you know of what the engine was designed and tested for other than random guessing?

There are a LOT of complex factors in play. As an engineer, I understand that I don't understand all of them. I can, however, make solid educated guesses and take this in a conservative direction. It is understood that any power adding modification will shorten the life of the engine/transmission. The degree of life shortening is what I am hoping to balance in a way that is reasonable for my personal situation. It is also understood that driving the truck (unmodified) at full power all the time will also shorten it's life considerably relative to unloaded and casual highway driving.

One way or the other, this truck will be used at its rated capacities the majority of the time until it meets its maker. The number of total miles driven in the end will certainly be less than most 2015 V6 RAM 1500's.

 

[Robeffy]

I continue to follow this with interest...

I have an engineering background too, and now I understand better what your goals are.
Its as much for education as practicality, if I read between the lines correctly. Its partly a toy, partly sentimental?

Seems to me you have a realistic approach, not simply "a need for speed".

 

[engineering]

Its as much for education as practicality, if I read between the lines correctly. Its partly a toy, partly sentimental?

Seems to me you have a realistic approach, not simply "a need for speed".

Yes, that is a fair assessment. My 'need for speed' is satisfied in airplanes, this project is more like an engineering challenge trying to shave the corners off the square peg just enough to fit in the round hole.

 

[Doug Ram]

To OP:

Sounds to me like you know what you are getting into! You want to keep the truck, want to have some interesting fun tinkering, are comfortable with a $6,000 budget and have realistic expectations of what you'll get. You seemed to say this this thing is still under some kind of warranty.... It's a 2015 right? It must have aged out of the regular 5year/50,000 drivetrain? What kind of warranty is still in place?

I have to admit that I don't have the patience to do more than the regular maintenance on my stuff. I am no engineer, just a pretty well educated user and owner of lots of gas and diesel powered stuff.

Can I ask that you post updates on how this performs as you tow your trailer around?

 

[engineering]

5year/50,000 drivetrain? What kind of warranty is still in place?

Your are correct.....now that you said it. No warranty left. I feel better already!

I will post as much as possible for sure - good and bad.

 

[Atcer2018]

It’s where the torque multiplication occurs, taking the load off the trans. Hence why the exact same truck is rated for 2500lbs more towing with 3.92 than with 3.21.

The 8hp45 is barely an 8spd with 3.21, as 8th is nearly useless.

Spot on! My 3.6 with 3:21 at 60mph runs in 8th on flat land. Go up a slight grade or cruise at 70mph and it runs in 7th. 8th is almost useless and only to get the EPA numbers.

 

[Atcer2018]

Yes, that is a fair assessment. My 'need for speed' is satisfied in airplanes, this project is more like an engineering challenge trying to shave the corners off the square peg just enough to fit in the round hole.

On the bright side your TBO for the Ram will be a fraction of aircraft power plant cost and be honest, that supercharger will be a lot of fun without a trailer behind you lol

 

[engineering]

Spot on! My 3.6 with 3:21 at 60mph runs in 8th on flat land. Go up a slight grade or cruise at 70mph and it runs in 7th. 8th is almost useless and only to get the EPA numbers.

This is why a gear change is still on the table for my truck.

On the bright side your TBO for the Ram will be a fraction of aircraft power plant cost and be honest, that supercharger will be a lot of fun without a trailer behind you lol

Yes, indeed. The rebuild on the airplane engine costs more than the original sticker price of this truck.

I am hoping to avoid the temptation to lead-foot this truck any more than needed for initial testing- if I break it, the wife may take the airplane away

 

[Lucy Girl]

My wife recently inherited a 2015 RAM 1500 3.6L V6 2WD with 3.21 rear end (9k miles). We also have a 22ft 4600lb travel trailer. When it is fully loaded with cargo and people - we are right at the sticker limits of towing and GVWR. Legal, but barely.

As anyone can guess, this is fine at sea level on flat roads in cool weather, but the V6 cannot deal with any grades or high altitude when fully loaded. This is no surprise.

Because this was handed down from my father-in-law, my wife REALLY wants to keep it and make it work for towing. So, don't bother with the typical "Get the HEMI" or "Get the Diesel". Somehow, I want to figure out how to configure this truck to better deal with towing at max weight in hills and high altitudes.

The truck needs torque. I don't really care about HP in this case. I only want to be able to hold my speed going up hill without downshifting 2-3 gears and planting the RPM's at some crazy number for long stretches. At the moment, I just slow down to a crawl to get up hills without needing WOT. Not good.

Initially, I just thought that I would change the rear-end form 3.21 to 3.92 which gets me about 22% more torque. That is pretty significant and not a ton of money - about $1200 or so.

Perhaps I could also do a performance tune, coil packs, etc. for a bit extra.

The all-in play is to get a Sprintex supercharger kit that puts the V6 into HEMI territory which would certainly solve the problem for my little trailer. The obvious downsides are the $$$ and the warranty is voided. Not sure if the 3.21 'cruising' rear gearing would be stressed. This is an option with wife's stamp of approval for her late dads truck.


Any ideas or experiences related to maximizing the 3.6L V6 Pentastar for long distance towing in hills and high-altitudes? Is just a gearing change a dramatic difference in real life? Supercharger offers a big torque gain and at very low RPM where I need it. Maybe both?

Get a bigger truck. Nuff said. lol

 

[engineering]

Get a bigger truck. Nuff said. lol

I will let my wife know that Lucy Girl told me to just buy a new truck.
Also, I will be signing up for internet dating immediately after.