2016 Ram trailer swaying

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Wyevale

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Hi.Does anyone have trailer sway problems with there ram? I just got my first ram truck this summer and have had nothing but troubles with it towing my 30ft house trailer. I have done everything to it that people have told me but it still sways bad! First it is a 2016 1500 outdoorsman with 30,000 km on it. I have had this trailer fo 6 years and have never had a problem with towing it. I have weight distributors and 2 sway bars on it. I was told by dealer to put air bags on truck so I did but it made no difference. Then they said to put heavy-duty tires on it so I put new E rated tires on it and still no difference. Does anyone have any advice for this?
 

Pricejh

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Hi.Does anyone have trailer sway problems with there ram? I just got my first ram truck this summer and have had nothing but troubles with it towing my 30ft house trailer. I have done everything to it that people have told me but it still sways bad! First it is a 2016 1500 outdoorsman with 30,000 km on it. I have had this trailer fo 6 years and have never had a problem with towing it. I have weight distributors and 2 sway bars on it. I was told by dealer to put air bags on truck so I did but it made no difference. Then they said to put heavy-duty tires on it so I put new E rated tires on it and still no difference. Does anyone have any advice for this?

Couple of ideas:

1. Check ride height and weight distribution of the trailer. Weight and weight distribution in the trailer can have a dramatic effect on towing.

2. Look into a Hensley Arrow hitch. I have used my Hensley on two trailers pulled by three trucks (Tacoma, Ram 1500 and a Ram 2500). I now have no, zilch, nada sway.


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MADDOG

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It sounds as if there may be a truck level and WDH hitch setup issue here.

What specifically have you done to correct the situation?
 

VernDiesel

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Read through about any of my old threads as its about all I post on. That is because towing TTs for the Mfgs commercially is what I do. I assure you the 30' floor plan and the Ram 1500 are compatible with proper weight distribution. No sway and stability is achievable. Please ignore the people who talk to you about stacking up weight guesstimates toward a magical payload sticker number they mean well but only parrot what they have heard. Even moderately exceeding your GVWR isn't necessarily all bad and sometimes is preferable as to other priorities. (lol I know some legalistically minded individual is freaking out right now)

The Hensley Arrow or Pro Prop hitches are an expensive but good solution as they are good at both setting weight distribution and have superior sway control. That said just like any WDH they should be taken to CAT scales that weigh steer, drive, & trailer axles separately and at the same time. You will use these numbers to set your rig up for proper weight distribution. Bags & load tires are helpful aids but the answer is primarily in proper steer weight, drive weight, and tongue weight percentage. (Of gross trailer weight)

I just use a simple relatively inexpensive Andersen WDH with built in sway control. Other properly sized WDH's with built in sway control will also work fine. If you don't have them you can normally get instructions for adjustments from the hitch Mfg. But I'm not a fan of older WDHs where in you have to add the now obsolete add on friction bar. If staying with your existing WDH you will need to know the rough weight of your loaded TT to match that to your spring bar rating to make sure you have enough spring bar.

CAT has a free app for your phone which has a locator addresses even GPS directions. Cost in most areas is $12 and $2 per additional weigh. So for under $20 you can make your rig stable and safe for your family using the scales and Mfg limits. Best is to start with three passes. First with wet TT & weight distribution applied. Second detach your weight distribution, stand on the hitch and push it up and down a bit to dissipate any weight distribution and get a second weigh. Third pull off the scales unhook your TT and weigh just your truck. Now you have all the info you need. You can see what your WDH was already providing, and have a starting point as to where you need to get to and as to what progress you are making when you start making adjustments.

For an end product goal you are going to want to;

1. Replace or come as close to or slightly under your unloaded steer axle weight as reasonably possible. Worse case make sure you are under the max steer axle weight which should be 3,900 for a 4th gen 1500. The most common problem is too little weight distribution where the front axle is a couple hundred pounds under unloaded steer weight. This is dangerous and common with no WDH. (headlights pointed up in the trees)

2. Set your drive axle weight equal or greater than your steer weight (unlikely to be a problem ) and at or below your max drive axle rating which should also be 3,900. Some people routinely exceed this by up to 10% or 4,300. I've seen non WDH loads get high 4,500 plus which is dangerous on a non HD type axle. A failure here at speed is a bad wreck.

3. Get your tongue weight between 10 & 15% ideally 12.5% in my experience with our trucks. This is your primary sway control. When using a WDH tongue weight is no longer static but rather becomes dynamic IE spread between steer, drive, & TT axles. Therefore proper TW calculation is done as follows. Subtract your unloaded truck weight from the combined axle weight of your loaded truck. Take this number and divide it into your gross trailer weight for your actual seen tongue weight percentage. What the brochure says or the tongue says when put on a scale is irrelevant when using a WDH.

Naturally the trailer should be level front to back. Perhaps an inch lower in the front. I keep a tape measure in my truck door to do a quick measure front and rear of frame to level ground. You shouldn't exceed your CVWR. 15,950 is max for the 4th gen 1500 platform. You shouldn't exceed max receiver rating which with our factory class 4 receiver is 1,150 pounds tongue weight. Some Ram guides have said more with WDH. Last but most commonly exceeded is the GVWR which is 6,950 on my Ecodiesel. The rub here with a bigger heavier trailer is that generally you don't want more weight on your TT axles than on your truck axles so as to reduce the odds of the tail wagging the dog so to speak. Tongue weight is adjustable via the WDH and weight distribution in both your TT and in your truck. So say setting the tongue weight to 15% vs setting it at 10% not only can take you above or below GVWR or payload as some might say it also can change the bias as to what has more axle weight the truck or the trailer.

Example 6k truck 8k TT.

10% TW 6,800 on truck axles, 7,200 on TT axles.
15% TW 7,200 on truck axles, 6,800 on TT axles. No tale wagging this dog.

I'd trust my familys safety in the later even though its 3.5% or 250 pounds over GVWR. Finally if you have a really heavy TW trailer and want to take some weight off your truck / TW. Propane and batteries on the tongue are heavy. Some people change or relocate batteries or propane tanks. You can also remove your heavy tailgate & use a net and or relocate your 60 pound spare from behind your truck axle to either behind the cab or better behind the TT axles such as under the trailer or on its back bumper. In this way you not only took 60 pounds off your drive axle but by moving it to behind the trailer axles shift some of the TW off the tongue and back onto the TT axles. Generally the best place for weight is above the TT axles. This kind of stuff is normally more for the guy needing to safely tow a 9 or 10k TT but it flat works.

Sorry for the book but it’s not a 30 second topic. Here is a recent example scale slip. Not a perfect setup but in the zone so to speak so despite its weight it was a relaxing tow.
A8D3F905-9A24-42DD-BA8C-3E4470DD579E.jpeg
 
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GsRAM

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Well done as usual Vern
 

SYKRAMMAN

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Read through about any of my old threads as its about all I post on. That is because towing TTs for the Mfgs commercially is what I do. I assure you the 30' floor plan and the Ram 1500 are compatible with proper weight distribution. No sway and stability is achievable. Please ignore the people who talk to you about stacking up weight guesstimates toward a magical payload sticker number they mean well but only parrot what they have heard. Even moderately exceeding your GVWR isn't necessarily all bad and sometimes is preferable as to other priorities. (lol I know some legalistically minded individual is freaking out right now)

The Hensley Arrow or Pro Prop hitches are an expensive but good solution as they are good at both setting weight distribution and have superior sway control. That said just like any WDH they should be taken to CAT scales that weigh steer, drive, & trailer axles separately and at the same time. You will use these numbers to set your rig up for proper weight distribution. Bags & load tires are helpful aids but the answer is primarily in proper steer weight, drive weight, and tongue weight percentage. (Of gross trailer weight)

I just use a simple relatively inexpensive Andersen WDH with built in sway control. Other properly sized WDH's with built in sway control will also work fine. If you don't have them you can normally get instructions for adjustments from the hitch Mfg. But I'm not a fan of older WDHs where in you have to add the now obsolete add on friction bar. If staying with your existing WDH you will need to know the rough weight of your loaded TT to match that to your spring bar rating to make sure you have enough spring bar.

CAT has a free app for your phone which has a locator addresses even GPS directions. Cost in most areas is $12 and $2 per additional weigh. So for under $20 you can make your rig stable and safe for your family using the scales and Mfg limits. Best is to start with three passes. First with wet TT & weight distribution applied. Second detach your weight distribution, stand on the hitch and push it up and down a bit to dissipate any weight distribution and get a second weigh. Third pull off the scales unhook your TT and weigh just your truck. Now you have all the info you need. You can see what your WDH was already providing, and have a starting point as to where you need to get to and as to what progress you are making when you start making adjustments.

For an end product goal you are going to want to;

1. Replace or come as close to or slightly under your unloaded steer axle weight as reasonably possible. Worse case make sure you are under the max steer axle weight which should be 3,900 for a 4th gen 1500. The most common problem is too little weight distribution where the front axle is a couple hundred pounds under unloaded steer weight. This is dangerous and common with no WDH.

2. Get your drive axle weight equal or greater than your steer weight (unlikely to be a problem) and at or below your max drive axle rating which should also be 3,900. Some people routinely exceed this by up to 10% or 4,300. I've seen non WDH loads get high 4,500 plus which is dangerous on a non HD type axle. A failure here at speed is a bad wreck.

3. Get your tongue weight between 10 & 15% ideally 12 & 14% in my experience with our trucks. This is your primary sway control. When using a WDH tongue weight is no longer static but rather becomes dynamic IE spread between steer, drive, & TT axles. Therefore proper TW calculation is done as follows. Subtract your unloaded truck weight from the combined axle weight of your loaded truck. Take this number and divide it into your gross trailer weight for your actual seen tongue weight percentage. What the brochure says or the tongue says when put on a scale is irrelevant when using a WDH.

Naturally the trailer should be level front to back. Perhaps an inch lower in the front. I keep a tape measure in my truck door to do a quick measure front and rear of frame to level ground. You shouldn't exceed your CVWR. 15,950 is max for the 4th gen 1500 platform. You shouldn't exceed max receiver rating which with our factory class 4 receiver is 1,150 pounds tongue weight. Some Ram guides have said more with WDH. Last but most commonly exceeded is the GVWR which is 6,950 on my Ecodiesel. The rub here with a bigger heavier trailer is that generally you don't want more weight on your TT axles than on your truck axles so as to reduce the odds of the tail wagging the dog so to speak. Tongue weight is adjustable via the WDH and weight distribution in both your TT and in your truck. So say setting the tongue weight to 15% vs setting it at 10% not only can take you above or below GVWR or payload as some might say it also can change the bias as to what has more axle weight the truck or the trailer.

Example 6k truck 8k TT.

10% TW 6,800 on truck axles, 7,200 on TT axles.
15% TW 7,200 on truck axles, 6,800 on TT axles. No tale wagging this dog.

I'd trust my familys safety in the later even though its 3.5% or 250 pounds over GVWR. Finally if you have a really heavy TW trailer and want to take some weight off your truck / TW. Propane and batteries on the tongue are heavy. Some people change or relocate batteries or propane tanks. You can also remove your heavy tailgate & use a net and or relocate your 60 pound spare from behind your truck axle to either behind the cab or better behind the TT axles such as under the trailer or on its back bumper. In this way you not only took 60 pounds off your drive axle but by moving it to behind the trailer axles shift some of the TW off the tongue and back onto the TT axles. Generally the best place for weight is above the TT axles. This kind of stuff is normally more for the guy needing to safely tow a 9 or 10k TT but it flat works.

Sorry for the book but it’s not a 30 second topic. Here is a recent example scale slip. Not a perfect setup but in the zone so to speak so despite its weight it was a relaxing tow.
View attachment 137349

Nice write up.
 

VernDiesel

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Yeah thanks guys. I was hoping Wyevale would read it perhaps question and decide to do it. Would love to have another guy come back here and say "wow it tows it like a whole nother truck!" Perhaps inspiring someone else to get off their duff and set up their rig for stability. Instead of reading another; man it was a white knuckle ride had to trade it take a beating and spend the family vacation money to get an HD. Or quietly sold the camper and got out of the idea of taking the kids camping cause he just couldn't afford it. Its easier to put them in front of Xbox. But a week at Yellowstone or Glacier is a week they will never forget and come to appreciate you for. Love my dad but he could never afford to do it.
 
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novelmike

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What type/brand of WDH do you have?
My trailer has an overall length of just under 30'. I've never experienced any sway.
I have a Blue Ox WDH. I also use their 1500lb bars because my tongue weight is quite heavy. Maybe that has something to do with me not having sway???
 

VernDiesel

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Mike you likely only have a 26 or 27' floorplan which decently loaded & kept to 65 shouldn't have much issue with sway. Add your WDH its pretty hard to screw up. The first and most important line of defense against sway is sufficient tongue weight. Sounds like you more than have that covered with how you have set it up. With the strong sway bars it would be very easy to at least replace the unloaded steer weight. Be careful of too much steer weight and too little drive weight as it would be easy for the trailer push to break loose your drives and cause an accident. Its the guys with a 30' or greater floorplan and a half ton or SUV etc that are more prone to sway problems.
 

GsRAM

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Yeah thanks guys. I was hoping Wyevale would read it perhaps question and decide to do it. Would love to have another guy come back here and say "wow it tows it like a whole nother truck!" Perhaps inspiring someone else to get off their duff and set up their rig for stability. Instead of reading another; man it was a white knuckle ride, had to trade it, take a beating, and spend my family vacation money to get an HD. Or quietly sold the camper and got out of the idea of taking the kids camping cause I just couldn't afford it. Its easier to put them in front of Xbox. But a week at Yellowstone or Glacier is a week they will never forget and come to appreciate you for. Love my dad but he could never afford to do it.

Man I couldn't agree more with this Vern! I am so grateful for my dad and mom who started taking us camping when I was 6 yrs old. I learned so much from that man about camping and life,towing trailers, you name it.

He died in 2000 from Lou Gehrigs disease at far too young of an age. But I still remember all the family vacations and camping trips and him relaxing at the campsite on an old green camping recliner.
This is why I take my boys camping. It's a lot of work of you take care of and properly maintain your equipment, but so Worth it. I'm hoping I'm instilling the tradition of camping in them and they will take their future families camping and I'm praying that "pop pop" will still be around by then and able to go camping with his grandkids. I'd have loved that when I was young
 

911ems

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Best thing I did was go to the CAT scales and set everything up with numbers to back it. We use an equalizer 4pt hitch, E tires, and a hellwig rear sway bar but nothing compared to just spending the time at the scales to set it up. We tow our 28’ bunkhouse that weighs 7100 loaded at 70mph with no sway. Even the wife comments how stable the set up feels.


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DieselGuy

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This is, of course, only my opinion based on my personal experiences. I am guessing that you TT weighs around 6k or 7k. Your 1500 probably weighs about 5400 lbs. I have towed a 8k trailer with an 5.4 Expedition. Reese anti- sway WDH. Although the SUV had plenty of power to tow, crosswinds were terrible to the point that I was blown off of the road by a passing yacht. Answer was a heavier truck- an Excursion. With the Excursion, I towed the TT down the mountains at about 75 mph with complete control. I now have a RAM 3500 SRW rated at about 17,000 lbs towing rate. I have towed just under 10,000 lbs with it. I am using a Blue Ox WDH. As one persn wrote, you do not want the tail wagging the dog. Others who have towed a larger box on teh road have commented that you do need to ride the brakes and let the trailer slow the truck as opposed to the truck trying to slow the trailer when going down hills. Last thing- a 3/4 ton pickup might be the answer. Maybe a RAM 2500 diesel.
 

VernDiesel

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Yep bigger truck is an option for some people. Others just bought a larger TT and are not in a position to trade trucks or don't want to. Yea some trailer bias to slow the truck is best and needed on slick surface. I like to use the turbo n transmission brake combo on a dry surface in conjunction with either the TBC or the truck brakes so as to feather in & out some trailer bias for safety coming down a steeper grade. You never allow your speed to get up to where you might need to ride the brakes for any extended time down a grade. Keep the truck brakes cool. Factory brakes lasted 293k. My second set 152k so far.

My post on scaling truck & trailer and with the 8k TT example got a lot interest and inquiries.

On my truck I would set up an 8k TT toward this;

Steer 3,200 Drive 3,800 (both in Mfg spec) via 1,000 pounds TW IE 12.5%

This would restore my unloaded steer weight to keep max steer & braking traction and stay within Mfg spec. On the drive axle it would keep weight above the steer weight and within Mfg spec to retain best COG and drive traction. Drive traction and COG prove to be very important such as where wind, semi bow wave, trailer sway make it unrecoverable once traction is lost or as on a downhill curve where the tongue is pushing it out of the curve. At least when you are not using some trailer brake bias.

AT 12.5% TW even a box TT would resist sway from reasonable speed wind gusts & semi bow wave. Making for a very safe stable tow. Additionally this would put 7,000 on my TV axles and only 7,000 on TT axles to minimize any possibility of the tale wagging the dog. This would be my priority over the being 50 pounds over my GVWR or payload as some say.

Naturally you can adjust to get within GVWR. Point is its last on the stability safety priories list not first. More importantly use the scales. It doesn't have to be done every year just once to get your basic setup right. Too many people let the "professionals" at an RV dealership set up their WDH with a dry trailer no scales and when wet ends up looking like this.

Steer 2900 Drive 4540 18% or 1440 TW blink.gif

Which for my truck would be too light on the steer with no traction to turn or stop with a raised COG and squirrely handling. Is also over max drive axle spec and over max receiver tongue weight spec. And of course over GVWR.
 
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GsRAM

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This is, of course, only my opinion based on my personal experiences. I am guessing that you TT weighs around 6k or 7k. Your 1500 probably weighs about 5400 lbs. I have towed a 8k trailer with an 5.4 Expedition. Reese anti- sway WDH. Although the SUV had plenty of power to tow, crosswinds were terrible to the point that I was blown off of the road by a passing yacht. Answer was a heavier truck- an Excursion. With the Excursion, I towed the TT down the mountains at about 75 mph with complete control. I now have a RAM 3500 SRW rated at about 17,000 lbs towing rate. I have towed just under 10,000 lbs with it. I am using a Blue Ox WDH. As one persn wrote, you do not want the tail wagging the dog. Others who have towed a larger box on teh road have commented that you do need to ride the brakes and let the trailer slow the truck as opposed to the truck trying to slow the trailer when going down hills. Last thing- a 3/4 ton pickup might be the answer. Maybe a RAM 2500 diesel.

I don't know what year expedition you had, but I had a 2000 Eddie Bauer with the 5.4 and it towed my present tt just fine. I had no sway issues. But my tt is probably 2,000 lighter than yours and mine was very maxed out with my tt so you were probably over your payload and tow ratings unless you had a newer expedition. The short wheelbase of the standard length expedition is problematic with longer trailers, that's for sure. But it was a decent rig, I just hated the air ride suspension for, many reasons
 

VernDiesel

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GsRam Was just thinking of your short wheel base comments very true. A related flash back for me was back in my racing days. At the track (or on the street) the I think 8" longer wheel base of the Grand Nationals Monte SS 442 etc vs the era Mustangs. At the track when the Gbodys broke lose it was usually recoverable when the short Mustangs (Fox body?) broke lose the driver was about to see ceiling floor ceiling floor. :driver:
 

GsRAM

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GsRam Was just thinking of your short wheel base comments very true. A related flash back for me was back in my racing days. At the track (or on the street) the I think 8" longer wheel base of the Grand Nationals Monte SS 442 etc vs the era Mustangs. At the track when the Gbodys broke lose it was usually recoverable when the short Mustangs (Fox body?) broke lose the driver was about to see ceiling floor ceiling floor. :driver:


You got that right Vern. Good point. I raced a 1986 mustang 5.0 at maple grove for several years. The fox body mustang is/was a lightweight piece and that has advantages, but get out of the groove at speed and it got interesting real quick. Good memories though and lots of fun.
 

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Question for the experts. I recently purchased a Trailer Tongue Weight Scale. I have an enclosed car hauler with most of the weight in front of the trailer axles. I wanted to see just how heavy the tongue was. With the trailer level it measured 800 lbs. Then I wanted to see how much lighter the tongue would be if I raised the tongue an inch. To my surprised the tongue weight went up not down. Does this make since??
 

VernDiesel

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Yep to a small degree but none the less you are lifting up on the front axle IE taking weight off of it by the tongue Also you are compressing the rear axle via the tongue. So level is best or with small tilt to the front. Naturally you can also lower TW a bit by getting some of the weigh off of the front of the trailer to over the axles. Last but not least you can lower your TW through use of a WDH.
 
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