2500 payload and towing questions

[switters]

I have a 2022 Ram Rebel 1500 5.7 Hemi with a 1,510 payload.

We just bought a 25' Airstream Trade Wind. The base weight is 6,300 lbs, and the GVWR is 7,600. Tongue weight is between 850-900 lbs, according to a few people on the Airstream forum who've weighed it.

I'm worried about exceeding payload with my Rebel 1500. With 900 lbs of tongue weight and a 125 lb WD hitch (Weigh-Safe), that leaves only ~500 lbs for passengers and cargo. We're a family of 3 plus two dogs, which gets us pretty close to 500 lbs without any cargo at all.

So, I'm considering trading the 1500 in for a 2500. I'd prefer the gas version to maximize payload, but they are very difficult to find within a 300-mile radius, and I don't want to wait for a custom order.

Questions:
1. Can anyone tell me the payload range for a Rebel 2500 Cummins that is fairly loaded with options? I've heard they can be as low as 1,900 lbs. That would be an improvement over what I have now, but not by as much as I'd like.
2. How does the ride quality and driving experience when you aren't towing compare between the 1500 and 2500?

Thanks!

 

[rzr6-4]

The payload police might jump in here, but I wouldn't think twice about pulling that. You wouldn't notice if you were over by several hundred pounds, you just need to get your weight distribution correct (both the hitch and the actual weight in the camper). If you were starting with nothing then I could see going with the 2500, but if you already have the 1500 I certainly wouldn't go through the effort of changing.

2500 Cummins

You absolutely do not need a cummins for this. If you pull very frequently then sure but for occasional trips, diesel is entirely overkill.

2. How does the ride quality and driving experience when you aren't towing compare between the 1500 and 2500?

I wouldn't call a 2500 rough by an means, but you will certainly notice a difference. I have a 1500 sierra that is definitely a smoother ride around town, but when you put a small load on it you notice right away, while my 2500 ram you will legitimately not even notice until you have several thousand pounds behind you.

 

[switters]

The payload police might jump in here, but I wouldn't think twice about pulling that. You wouldn't notice if you were over by several hundred pounds, you just need to get your weight distribution correct (both the hitch and the actual weight in the camper). If you were starting with nothing then I could see going with the 2500, but if you already have the 1500 I certainly wouldn't go through the effort of changing.

You absolutely do not need a cummins for this. If you pull very frequently then sure but for occasional trips, diesel is entirely overkill.

I wouldn't call a 2500 rough by an means, but you will certainly notice a difference. I have a 1500 sierra that is definitely a smoother ride around town, but when you put a small load on it you notice right away, while my 2500 ram you will legitimately not even notice until you have several thousand pounds behind you.

Thanks! I'm happy to hear this, as my wife already complains about driving the 1500 around town. I doubt she'd enjoy the 2500.

I neglected to mention that I also have the Airlift 1000HD airbags and Billstein shocks. Between those and the Weigh-Safe hitch, I'm hoping I should be okay even if I exceed payload by a couple hundred pounds.

I'm also considering the Stableload suspension stabilizer, but it doesn't seem they make one for the 2022 Rebel 1500.

 

[nlambert182]

You really don't need a Cummins for that. Right off the bat the Cummins reduces your payload by 900 lbs. Airbags do nothing for you short of leveling the truck and you still have to stay within the limits.

Realistically as close as it is, as long as you know the true weight and you know you won't exceed the rear axle weight rating I probably wouldn't even step up to a 2500 even if it's slightly over payload.

The payload on the truck in my signature (thought not a Rebel) is 1,680 lbs.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

If you are only going to use it on weekends or for short periods of time and stay at RV parks. Stay with your 1500 and drive cautiously.

IF, you are going for long periods of time and are going to add things like a generator and other things for long term boondocking camping consider the 6.4l 2500 - NOT diesel. There are a lot of things that add weight. For example, I don't drink the water from the TT fresh water tanks. I have 4, 5 gallon plastic bottles in the be of my 2500. That is 160 pounds of water.

 

[switters]

If you are only going to use it on weekends or for short periods of time and stay at RV parks. Stay with your 1500 and drive cautiously.

IF, you are going for long periods of time and are going to add things like a generator and other things for long term boondocking camping consider the 6.4l 2500 - NOT diesel. There are a lot of things that add weight. For example, I don't drink the water from the TT fresh water tanks. I have 4, 5 gallon plastic bottles in the be of my 2500. That is 160 pounds of water.

The Airstream Trade Wind has 600w of solar and a 810Ah battery bank, and it's fully inverted with a 3,000w inverter. So, even when boondocking, we won't have a generator.

We'll likely take about 8-10 short trips (2-4 days) from April through October. In some cases, we'll have full hookups. In others, we'll be partial or boondocking.

 

[2003F350]

In light of what you've said, I'd say just stay with the 1500 and take it easy. As long as you know where you're at and drive like it, you should be just fine. No reason to get a new truck over what you're doing in my opinion.

 

[dhay13]

Cummins is definitely overkill. 2500 likely overkill. I put more emphasis on GRAWR than I do payload although I recommend staying under both. Since its likely only going to be slightly over payload if at all as long as you are under your GRAWR I'd be ok towing it myself

 

[chri5k]

Also, you can put put cargo you don't need while driving in the camper. Put over the camper axle or slightly behind to reduce the effect on tongue weight.

 

[mtofell]

OP, great job knowing how the game works! Far too many come in here after buying and still don't understand. I agree with your take and most replies. You're close to the limit but can be okay with a little planning. Definitely get the trailer weighed and weigh your axles all set up.

The most important numbers you don't want to ever exceed are axle and tire ratings. Not sure if you've noticed yet but the individual axle weights might add up to more than your payload. In the world of 2500 trucks this is especially the case... I'm not so sure how 1500s work. My 2014 2500 has a RAWR of 6500 and a FAWR of 5500 but a GVWR (that payload is based on) 10,000#. The heaviest I ever was loaded up for a week of camping was about 5800 on the rear axle and 4500 on the front. So, 300 over payload but still 700 under RAWR (tires were rated for 3600/ea so another 700# breathing room there).

As for ride, yeah a 2500 is stiffer. I'd almost more describe is as the 1500s are really soft (and comfortable). The tradeoff is always stiffness for ability carrying.

Btw... my oldest lives in Bend. Awesome city! I grew up in Portland but am now in Maui. I love getting over the mountains to visit him when I'm in town.

 

[RamFP620]

With my experience, the advertised payload doesn't tell the whole story. For my 2017 1500 4x4 w/3.92 gears, the listed payload is 1530#. After getting my truck/boat combo weighed, the empty weight of my truck w/full tank of gas is around 5800# (no pass, nothing in the bed). GVWR of 6900# - 5800# = 1100#. So I do everything based on a payload of 1100#.
So in my truck/boat setup, my truck is pretty much at it's 6900# limit with ~500# tongue weight + pass (family of 4) and no cargo. It handles fine, I don't drive crazy when towing and I'm OCD when it comes to trailer brakes...very important. I would like to go to a 2500 so that I can have the extra payload to handle boat + family + cargo.

I recommend you get your truck weigh to get the true empty weight so you know the true payload. As another member posted, it's probably a little bit more important that you don't exceed the axle weight even if you over GVWR by a few pounds. In the end, load up you Airstream and hit the scales to see the numbers which should better help decide if you need to upsize to a 2500.

 

[bgenlvtex]

Distance and duration are an important consideration.
Towing something for a 100 miles 3 or 4 times a year in the midwest is an entirely different thing than touring the mountain west for 6 weeks at a time.

I towed a 3,000 pound trailer about 25,000 miles in 2 years with our Gladiator. Despite it being less than half the tow rating and well inside cargo capacity of the Gladiator it was a miserable chore. Did it do it? Sure. Was it safely inside "ratings"? Yes. Would I recommend a Gladiator (JTR) to anyone to use as we did? Absolutely not.

 

[switters]

OP, great job knowing how the game works! Far too many come in here after buying and still don't understand. I agree with your take and most replies. You're close to the limit but can be okay with a little planning. Definitely get the trailer weighed and weigh your axles all set up.

The most important numbers you don't want to ever exceed are axle and tire ratings. Not sure if you've noticed yet but the individual axle weights might add up to more than your payload. In the world of 2500 trucks this is especially the case... I'm not so sure how 1500s work. My 2014 2500 has a RAWR of 6500 and a FAWR of 5500 but a GVWR (that payload is based on) 10,000#. The heaviest I ever was loaded up for a week of camping was about 5800 on the rear axle and 4500 on the front. So, 300 over payload but still 700 under RAWR (tires were rated for 3600/ea so another 700# breathing room there).

As for ride, yeah a 2500 is stiffer. I'd almost more describe is as the 1500s are really soft (and comfortable). The tradeoff is always stiffness for ability carrying.

Btw... my oldest lives in Bend. Awesome city! I grew up in Portland but am now in Maui. I love getting over the mountains to visit him when I'm in town.

I'm a little concerned about the RAWR. A guy I met on the Airstream forum has the exact trailer model I'm getting. He has an F-150 with a RAWR of 3800. The first time he weighed, he was 500 lbs over. Granted, he had a mini fridge and some other heavy items in the truck bed. But he was still 350 lbs over (4,150) even after lightening the load.

The RAWR on my truck is 4100. So, presuming I can match this guy's lighter load, I will be right at or slightly above the limit. It sounds like that's not a good idea.

I just test-drove a Rebel 2500 with the Cummins (they didn't have any 6.4s on the lot). I didn't mind the ride. Definitely stiffer, as you said, but I could be happy driving it. The bigger issue is just how enormous it is. Trying to park the 1500 in the small-ish parking lots in Bend is already a challenge, and that will be much harder with the 2500. My wife, especially, will hate it.

If we do get a 2500, it will be a 6.4 rather than the Cummins. I checked the payload on the door jam sticker on three of the Rebel 2500s they had on the lot (all with the Cummins engine). They ranged between 1700-1800. The payload on my Rebel 1500 is 1510. It doesn't make sense to switch to a 2500—and give up an easier around-town driving experience—just for 250-275 lbs more payload.

Do I understand correctly that the 6.4 gas Rebel 2500 should have 800-900 lbs. more payload, given the exact same options/configuration, simply because of the added weight of the Cummins diesel engine?

If so, a 6.4 2500 could be in my future. I still want to tow with the 1500 a few times (and weigh it to get the actual front/rear axle weight and overall weights) before deciding.

 

[dhay13]

My 2018 2500 with a 6.4 has 2973lbs payload. You should probably see at least 2600lbs payload on any 2500 gasser, even fully loaded. Mine is pretty loaded but has the off-road package with skid plates and crap.
Also, the 2500 will ride smoother as you add weight. Empty they are a rough ride. Add 500lbs in the bed and its much smoother

 

[switters]

My 2018 2500 with a 6.4 has 2973lbs payload. You should probably see at least 2600lbs payload on any 2500 gasser, even fully loaded. Mine is pretty loaded but has the off-road package with skid plates and crap.
Also, the 2500 will ride smoother as you add weight. Empty they are a rough ride. Add 500lbs in the bed and its much smoother

This is super helpful, thanks. I would order a fully loaded truck, so it's good to know I'd still end up with 2,600 lbs of payload. That is plenty for me.

 

[mtofell]

The GAWR on my truck is 4100

Thinking you mean RAWR (rear axle weight rating)??

For comparison, my 2014 2500 in a mid-trim level (Outdoorsman - basically a Big Horn) has a payload of 3040#.

If/when you buy, be SURE to get into the 8spd tranny. My 6spd is a dog with poor gear spacing. They went cheap and used the ratios from the 68rfe that goes with the Cummins. What works with a diesel doesn't work with a gasser.

Also, the 66rfe is also far from a reliability juggernaut. I went through two rebuilds before 100K and have seen quite a few others on here with problems. I don't recall seeing too many problems with the 8spd. At least not posted here for whatever that's worth. I believe the switch was around 2018.

 

[switters]

Thinking you mean RAWR (rear axle weight rating)??

For comparison, my 2014 2500 in a mid-trim level (Outdoorsman - basically a Big Horn) has a payload of 3040#.

If/when you buy, be SURE to get into the 8spd tranny. My 6spd is a dog with poor gear spacing. They went cheap and used the ratios from the 68rfe that goes with the Cummins. What works with a diesel doesn't work with a gasser.

Also, the 66rfe is also far from a reliability juggernaut. I went through two rebuilds before 100K and have seen quite a few others on here with problems. I don't recall seeing too many problems with the 8spd. At least not posted here for whatever that's worth. I believe the switch was around 2018.

Yes, had RAWR in the first sentence but then apparently my brain went dead in the second! Just edited the post.

If I get a 2500 6.4, I will definitely get the 8-speed. Also planning to get the 4.10 axle ratio, because Ram says it's better for towing. What do you think?

 

[mtofell]

Yes, had RAWR in the first sentence but then apparently my brain went dead in the second! Just edited the post.

If I get a 2500 6.4, I will definitely get the 8-speed. Also planning to get the 4.10 axle ratio, because Ram says it's better for towing. What do you think?

Yeah, 4.10 is great if you can find one or are ordering. They are really rare and honestly isn't enough of a difference to worry much about. Especially at the weight you are looking at. Even the problems with the gear ratios at your weight probably aren't a big deal. I'd be more concerned about the reliability issues of the 6spd vs. 8spd.

Also, I really had my set up maxed out. My 5th wheel weighed around 11,000# loaded up. The real issue I had was up steep-ish winding roads trying to go around 35 or 40. I just couldn't hold 2nd. Left in "D" the truck would just slam back and forth between 1 & 2. I'd just lock it into 1 and putt up the hill at 25. The 6.4 is a total beast power-wise and I'd have no problem maintaining speed or even accelerating if the road would allow 50MPH or more. I remember fully loaded pulling Hwy 26 up to Government Camp heading east out of Zig Zag and I had no problem at all. It was just those gear ratios. The diesel makes such great low end power that having it drop to 2nd early was great. A gasser not so much.

If finances allow, getting into a new/newer 8spd would be great (I can only dream... LOL). But the 6 would pull your weight just fine. I pulled a lot of trailer with gravel, etc. in the 7,000# range and it was no problem at all. The added "beef" of brakes, suspension, etc. in the 2500 is a pretty big game changer over a 1500. I pulled a 7K travel trailer with a 1500 and then the same trailer with a 2500 and it's night and day.

 

[switters]

Thanks! It's difficult, if not impossible, to find a 6.4 within 300 miles of my location, so I'll place a custom order (if I don't feel the 1500 is sufficient). It will likely take a few months, but it's worth waiting for the features I want.

 

[nlambert182]

4.10s are nice, but they're going to come at the cost of poor fuel economy. 3.73s are a pretty awesome combo and would suit your towing needs quite well. If it were me, that's what I'd be looking for. You'll still get good performance when towing and keep the rpms down a bit when driving around town.

I've had trucks with the 4.10 and 3.73, and when pulling a relatively light load (like your Airstream) I prefer the 3.73s myself. The 4.10s were great for towing my 16.5k fifth wheel, but weren't my favorite on long empty trips.


Towing with a 1500 and then a 2500 are a night and day difference. The same can be said for towing with a 2500 vs a 3500. Sure, there's a little learning curve with getting used to driving something bigger, but it's minimal and doesn't take very long to get used to it.

If you do switch to a 2500 (gas or diesel), it will be plenty for your setup and leave you some wiggle room.