2500 vs 3500 for an AEV Prospector XL Conversion

[warrantchief]

Hi folks, I'm close to pulling the trigger on a truck that I will have converted by AEV into a Prospector XL. I had initially intended to get a 2500 for the 5 link coil spring rear suspension, but when I looked at a door sticker for a laramie diesel, the payload was like 1970lbs.

The whole point of buying a big truck is to get some utility out of it via towing / slide in campers, etc. I feel like after conversion the 2500 might not even have enough payload for a lightweight slide in like a four wheel camper which has a dry weight of 1200lbs.

The 3500 I've heard rides significantly worse than the 2500 unloaded, but I'm wondering how much of that is the 80psi in the 20" wheels. Presumably the 40s on the Prospector XL would be more compliant.

Does anyone think I would be making a mistake if I got the 3500 prospector XL? It's certainly less common than the 2500.

Love to hear your thoughts before I write some big checks! Thanks

 

[Firebird]

What is the payload on a 3500 Prospector. My 2500 with the 6.4 has a 3034 lb payload

 

[392DevilDog]

Get the 3500 if you are going diesel. If going 6.4l...and planning to say...overland...still get the 3500. The ride really isnt worse...especially offroad.

@Firebird your truck with the diesel would have a payload of 2034.

The Prospector is a cool package. I just wish RAM would have snagged the name back first and used it for an option package that gave you the Powerwagon goodies without the flex suspension.

 

[RandomRam]

With the exception of a Four Wheel Camper a slide in camper pretty much mandates a 3500.

 

[warrantchief]

Thanks guys. Sounds like soo far I won't regret the 3500. It's not like I'm going rockcrawling in this thing. I just want good clearance capable on rough two track. I know the Prospector XL is overkill, but I think they do really nice job and it's a really well engineered package.

I'm not getting a 6.4l. I've been shopping for low mile 2018 diesels with the g56 and found a 3500 I'm happy with. I want the last ever diesel manual American pickup.

 

[392DevilDog]

The only reason I would ever get another Cummins is to grab up a 2018 G56.

You are making a great rig. Can not wait to see it

 

[SouthTexan]

The payload of the 2500 is limited by EPA NHTSA class regulations, not actual carrying ability of its individual parts which are identical to the 3500 aside from the rear suspension. The back end of the 2500 diesel can easily and safely handle at least 3.2k just like the gas version of the 2500. My 2500 diesel has a rear GAWR of 6,500 lbs while the 3500 is 7,000 lbs while the front is the exact same so only 500 lbs difference in axle ratings.

However, the 2500 is in EPA class 2B(HDV2B) which has a max GVWR of 10k of all vehicles put in that class. This is why all Ram 2500's have a max GVWR of 10k even though the actual ratings of their parts are the same or slightly less than the 3500. The EPA class 3(HDV3) that the 3500's are in maxes out at a GVWR of 14k so there is a lot more wiggle room which is why the SRW 3500's are around 11-12k GVWR.

These EPA/government mandated numbers are only meant for manufacturers for emissions and highway classifications and are not abiding by law to the consumer.

 

[392DevilDog]

I do not disagree with the above post. But then why was the 5.7 Hemi only rated to 9000lbs. Why was the 2500 only 8800 for years until they did the 2013 beef up.

Thanks for the info.

 

[392DevilDog]

2500...front 5750 rear 6000 11750 total. GVWR 10000

3500...front 6000 rear 7000 13000 total GVWR 11800.

I still the think the numbers are what the capacity is. The extra axle rate is for inertia weight transfer.

The axles are not the limiting factor.

Cause if so...why not make the 3/4 ton the full 13000 if the limit is 14000 with your thought about the 2500 being limited to 10k.

I do not buy extra capacity. Sorry.

I would still get the 3500. The trucks are designed to be most comfortable and handle best at the payload ratings. Meaning...the 2500 may ride better empty...but they are both designed to ride best loaded.

And the 3500 just does away with any regrets.

Have fun.

 

[SouthTexan]

The front GAWR of my 2500 is 6,000 and has the exact same front suspension, axle, and so on as the 3500 diesel. The rear GAWR of my truck is 6,500 lbs and has the same frame, axle, brakes, and tires as the 3500. The only difference in the whole truck is the rear suspension which is why it has a lower GAWR of 500 lbs.

However, due to EPA regulations on vehicles classes, its GVWR is 1,800 lbs lower which by default lowers its payload sticker. I have put 3k in the back of my 2500 on a regular basis hauling wood, corn/protein, and so on since I bought in 2014 and the coils show no signs of fade or any safety risk.

 

[warrantchief]

Hey guys, I know the 2500 is capable of more than GVWR, but I'm not willing to flirt with a "legally" overloaded vehicle. If, unfortunately, you were in an accident, it would open you up to all sorts of liability and could cause your insurance to fail to pay out, etc. Just not a risk I'm willing to take, personally.

The most ridiculous GVWR issue I've seen is the F350 dually vs the f450 (sorry for the f*rd content). Because they're both capped at 14k, the significantly beefier F450 actually has a lower legal payload!

 

[SouthTexan]

The EPA mandated numbers are in no way legally binding to the consumer. It is only a regulation that has to be there in order to sell a new vehicle in the US. In many states like here in Texas, you can legally register your truck for a higher GVWR than what is on the sticker. I also find it funny that people abide by this sticker yet will not think twice about getting new aggressive tires that have a lower rating than the factory tires which is what that sticker is based on.


The main reasons why Ram has a truck capped at 10k is due to fleets. In many states, any commercial vehicle over 10k requires a limited DOT to drive and the taxes/registration are much lower than the class 3 trucks . I know in Texas, the annual registration for a class 3 truck is double that of a class 2B.

In fact, the punishment for getting caught in Texas for going over your registered GVWR is that you have to pay the higher registration fee of the class that you got caught for all the years you have owned your truck and from that point on with that vehicle. That is it. Lawyers can't use this as a reason to sue because Texas legally says you can.

I work for a medium/heavy duty dealer group that owns 9 Ford truck dealerships. We mainly sell to fleets. Ford actually has an option on the F350 that allows you to decrease the GVWR from 12k to 10k for this very reason. The same thing was done to the F450 to make it a class 3 vehicle. It is very popular with many fleets and saves them a lot of money along with the headache of DOT driver license requirements. In fact, this is done all the time in the medium/heavy duty industry with other brands we sell like Peterbilt, Navistar, Hino, and so on.

Rams approach to this is to just make a beefier 2500 that can handle about the same weight as the 3500 SRW instead of having a 3500 de-rate option like Ford. One of the biggest myths is that these numbers are legally binding to the consumer I cannot for the life of me figure out where they got this info from. I have heard of people being ticketed for going over their registered GVWR, but never their door sticker GVWR. I wonder where this info is coming from.

 

[Rick Ram-jet]

To the OP, regarding the AEV Prospector, I don`t know this as fact or 1st hand, but I do recall recently hearing about premature bearing issues when running their system w/40in tires. Not a bash (I dig AEV products) just thought you`re like a "heads-up" so you can do your own homework before pulling the trigger on such a big ticket item!

If you do pull the trigger be sure and post pics, the Prospector looks bad ***...

 

[warrantchief]

Hey Rick, I've read some of that, but "premature" was reported as more like 40k mi on lift and 70kmi total, type of thing. It doesn't seem like it's blowing out bearings in 15k miles or anything, so I think I can probably chock that up to the cost of doing business...

To the OP, regarding the AEV Prospector, I don`t know this as fact or 1st hand, but I do recall recently hearing about premature bearing issues when running their system w/40in tires. Not a bash (I dig AEV products) just thought you`re like a "heads-up" so you can do your own homework before pulling the trigger on such a big ticket item!

If you do pull the trigger be sure and post pics, the Prospector looks bad ***...

 

[mtofell]

and could cause your insurance to fail to pay out, etc.

This is such internet urban legend and I feel the need to call it out as such every time I see it. Insurance MUST pay out unless they can prove that you were purposely trying to defraud them. Basically, overloading your truck does not void your insurance. If it did, half of the people leaving the Home Depot lumber yard on any given Saturday would have no insurance.... it's just not the case.

The GVWR v. Axle Weights argument will go on until the end of time and I'll leave that to everyone else to fight out..... I just wanted to clarify the insurance misinformation.

 

[warrantchief]

I'm actually going to call USAA today and ask them about GVWR and see what they say. I'll post back.

However, if you strap a ton of lumber to the roof of your car putting you over GVRW and god forbid, get into an accident where someone gets seriously hurt, lawyers are going to come after you. I personally am not willing to risk it, how ever small the chance.

 

[mtofell]

I'm actually going to call USAA today and ask them about GVWR and see what they say. I'll post back.

They'll probably say, "it could void your insurance" or things like that. They'll never flat out admit they'll cover you to do something dumb/illegal. If you run a red light and hit someone you're covered, right? You broke a law but they can't deny coverage. Insurance companies love you to think they'll deny you so you don't do dumb stuff but they ultimately have to meet a pretty high bar to deny coverage.

It's along the same lines as the urban legend of your homeowner's insurance company denying coverage if you do unpermitted work in your house. Again, they have to prove you were trying to defraud them. Come on.... this is the USA. If doing dumb things cost us, 75% of us would be dead broke

 

[62Blazer]

I question the whole insurance denial thing also.....people always bring it up and say if the truck is 100 lbs. over GVWR the insurance company will deny coverage and you will get sued, but I have never heard of anybody with actual first hand experience of this happening. I do know second hand of a couple commercial medium duty trucks that were in accidents and a private pickup truck pulling a camper. In neither case did the insurance company (or law enforcement for that matter) even ask about the payload of the trucks or weight of the camper, and it's unlikely they would unless there is something blatant going on and it was written up in the accident report. With that said I'm not telling people to go out and try to pull a 25,000 lb. fifth wheel down the interstate in their half ton truck.

 

[ramffml]

Hi folks, I'm close to pulling the trigger on a truck that I will have converted by AEV into a Prospector XL. I had initially intended to get a 2500 for the 5 link coil spring rear suspension, but when I looked at a door sticker for a laramie diesel, the payload was like 1970lbs.

The whole point of buying a big truck is to get some utility out of it via towing / slide in campers, etc. I feel like after conversion the 2500 might not even have enough payload for a lightweight slide in like a four wheel camper which has a dry weight of 1200lbs.

The 3500 I've heard rides significantly worse than the 2500 unloaded, but I'm wondering how much of that is the 80psi in the 20" wheels. Presumably the 40s on the Prospector XL would be more compliant.

Does anyone think I would be making a mistake if I got the 3500 prospector XL? It's certainly less common than the 2500.

Love to hear your thoughts before I write some big checks! Thanks

If you're going to be carrying something that heavy all the time, then the 3500 won't feel horrible, it's only when you drive unloaded that it's jarring.

 

[392DevilDog]

I agree with both sides of the payload argument.

But lets say a 2500 has 2500lbs of payload and a 3500 has 3500lbs of payload.

You load 3000lbs in each. The 2500 being 500 over and 3500 being 500 under. Not gonna notice, probably no adverse effects.

Now load them both to 4500lbs. 2500 is 2000lbs over and 3500 is 1000lbs over. The 2500 will have an issue. The 3500 still okay.

For what you are doing. Get the 3500.

Why do I jeep replying to these...lol.