3:73 to 4:10 cost

[GsRAM]

I know I’m not alone in thinking when someone moves from a 1/2 ton truck to a 3/4 ton truck the 3/4 ton should at least have equal towing power. I don’t think that’s an unrealistic expectation.

The Ram 6.4 as it is currently is either in its way out or due for a makeover in my opinion. Ford and Chevy realized they were making half ton trucks. that had more torque than their 3/4 tons so Ford is making changes by doing away with their 6.2 and replacing it with a ramped up 6.8. Ford will still have the 7.3 gas. Chevy or GM already made the move to their 6.6 gas and in 2024 will couple that with their 10 speed Allison. Ram will have no choice but to keep up eventually again in my opinion.

My 17 ram 6.4 has equal to or more towing power than the 2015 Chevy Silverado 1500 it replaced. Ford EcoBoost have lots of power, no question there, but they have their issues as well.

 

[SouthTexan]

I was playing a little lose with the numbers. For exact figuring, I get gas at ufa cardlocks, was 1.315 per litre when I filled up today times 3.79 litres per gallon is 4.98 Canadian. Diesel is 1.90 canadian at ufa. Most other places are higher. Canadian dollar is .723 so should actually be about 3.62 a gallon for gas in us dollars so a bit more than the 3 I ball parked it at. Diesel would be about 5.25 U.S. still a 1.60 a gallon diff.

Okay, so my math was right. According to Gasbuddy, the top 10 stores selling 85 octane averages out to 1.4708 per liter which is $4.03 US per gallon. Top 10 stores selling diesel averages to 1.878 which is $5.15 US per gallon. Given that, the cost per mile for both the diesel and 6.4L is the same at $.33 per mile based on their average mpgs on Fuelly of 12 mpg for the 6.4L and 15.5 mpg for the Cummins.

As I stated many times in other threads, as fuel prices go up, the more the more the difference has to be between the two to have the same cost per mile. For example. If the cost for both are low, say $1.50 per gallon for gas, then diesel would have to be .45¢ higher($1.95 per gallon) to have the same cost per mile given their current fuel economy difference. However, if the cost for both at high, say $3.00 for gas, then diesel can be $1 higher at $4.50 a gallon and still have the same cost per mile of .29¢. It is not a set .50¢ like most people believe.

In regard to the 6.4L getting 19 mpg, those must be special unicorn trucks because everyone that I know that has a 6.4L and the millions of miles and fillups logged on Fuelly state that 12 mpg is its hand calculated average. However, if you are getting better than average based on your driving style, then that the same would be true even if you were in a diesel since you are the controlling factor. You would likely get the same percent above average in any vehicle you drive regardless of their average fuel economy.

 

[Omegasupreme]

If ram could get 10-12 mpg WHILE towing anything, this 6.4 would be more popular than the Cummins.

 

[Dean2]

I am NOT going to get into another one of thse gas mileage debates, arguements etc. They never go anywhere and create a lot of hard feelings.

I provided my experience and input, use the info or not, believe it or not, explain it away if you want. I am not at all interested in debating this. Peace out man.

 

[SouthTexan]

I am NOT going to get into another one of thse gas mileage debates, arguements etc. They never go anywhere and create a lot of hard feelings.

I provided my experience and input, use the info or not, believe it or not, explain it away if you want. I am not at all interested in debating this. Peace out man.

I am not trying to get in a diesel versus gas debate. I just wanted to be sure that the numbers were correct because I feel that people need an honest answer to help them make better decisions for themselves. A lot of times people exaggerate numbers to make whatever their peddling look good. I am not saying you did it in your posts, but I am saying a lot of people do it.

And don't feel like I am questioning yours just because you drive a gas HD. I have and will call out a diesel guy if I think he is fudging his numbers or not telling the truth like that one guy on here from California who said he constantly gets 25 mpg at the end of very tank in his Cummins. If something does not seem right, I question it like any smart person should do. Although in your case I was just wondering how that how conversion thing worked because my company just bought 17 truck centers up in Canada and I am heading up there in a few weeks after I come back from SEMA.

 

[Omegasupreme]

I am NOT going to get into another one of thse gas mileage debates, arguements etc. They never go anywhere and create a lot of hard feelings.

I provided my experience and input, use the info or not, believe it or not, explain it away if you want. I am not at all interested in debating this. Peace out man.

I wouldn't either! I just want to know what mods or how you are driving to achieve those numbers so I can get the same mileage!! Don't hold out on us.

 

[Dean2]

I wouldn't either! I just want to know what mods or how you are driving to achieve those numbers so I can get the same mileage!! Don't hold out on us.

I really can't help. We are both spirited drivers but stick to no more than 10 kph over posted speed limits which are 100 kph or 65 mph on the highway, 30 mph around town. The Jeep and the 2021 2500 are bone stock. No mods beyond winch, canopy and Duratacs on the 2500. Here is hand calculated on the truck since new, most of it not on pavement. The V8 Jeep is on my wife's phone, 80 percent paved city driving, lifetime average on 33,500 klms is 23.7 mpg.

 

[SouthTexan]

I really can't help. We are both spirited drivers but stick to no more than 10 kph over posted speed limits which are 100 kph or 65 mph on the highway, 30 mph around town. The Jeep and the 2021 2500 are bone stock. No mods beyond winch, canopy and Duratacs on the 2500. Here is hand calculated on the truck since new, most of it not on pavement. The V8 Jeep is on my wife's phone, 80 percent paved city driving, lifetime average on 33,500 klms is 23.7 mpg.

It is impressive that 15.4 is your average. Most 6.4L owners on Fuelly get way less. Although as I stated earlier, if you get above average with the 6.4L due to your driving style, then you would get a lot better with anything else. The best I have ever gotten in a tank in my diesel was 19 mpg hand calculated and that was because I was driving under 70 mph most of the tank and very little city. I tend to not care about fuel mileage anymore because I have a diesel car that gets around 45 mpg and I only use my truck to tow nowadays. Hard to get good fuel mileage when most of those miles are hooked up to a trailer.

 

[62Blazer]

Really not fair to compare any 2500 series truck, which is a piece of equipment compared to a light weight 1/2 ton glorified car with a bed on it. Especially an aluminum can f150

A Ram 2500 6.4 gas truck usually weighs 1,500-2,000 lbs. more than the 3.5L V6 F-150. Really need to put 2,000 lbs. in the bed of the F-150 and then compare the trucks in power. I understand where the person making the comment is coming from but there is a lot more to payload and towing capacity then just the engine power......brakes, suspension, and just how the heavier duty truck holds up over time are big factors if you are going to be actually working it hard and pulling trailers.

 

[GsRAM]

A Ram 2500 6.4 gas truck usually weighs 1,500-2,000 lbs. more than the 3.5L V6 F-150. Really need to put 2,000 lbs. in the bed of the F-150 and then compare the trucks in power. I understand where the person making the comment is coming from but there is a lot more to payload and towing capacity then just the engine power......brakes, suspension, and just how the heavier duty truck holds up over time are big factors if you are going to be actually working it hard and pulling trailers.

Yes, exactly. Spot on. My 2015 Silverado 1500/5.3 had similar pulling power to my 17 ram 6.4, but the 1500 was at its limits and felt like it, the 2500 handles it with ease, totally different towing experience. I'd imagine comparing pulling/ towing power alone, comparing a 3.5 eb to a ram 2500 with a Cummins, the difference would be more notable. For what Ford wants for their trucks, you could probably buy a ram 2500/Cummins tradesman for similar money to an F150/ 3.5 eb with the basic options....just a guess though. I haven't priced them recently.

 

[JerryETX]

For what Ford wants for their trucks, you could probably buy a ram 2500/Cummins tradesman for similar money to an F150/ 3.5 eb with the basic options....just a guess though. I haven't priced them recently

The reason I bought a 2500 was to tow our 38' travel trailer. We've ended up leaving it most of the time at an RV park and storing it there which means the most I will have to pull it is down the road for service or possible move to another RV park. Recently I thought about selling my Ram and getting a new F150 ecoboost with max tow and just use that to move the camper 10 miles max each way about 3 or 4 times a year. I went on Ford's website and built and new CC 4x4 F150 XLT- it had some bells and whistles like remote start, average radio, power drivers seat, etc but wasn't loaded by any means (no leather, etc.). I did include max trailer tow and tow mirrors. Total price- $62,880....

I'll stick with my Ram.

 

[GsRAM]

The reason I bought a 2500 was to tow our 38' travel trailer. We've ended up leaving it most of the time at an RV park and storing it there which means the most I will have to pull it is down the road for service or possible move to another RV park. Recently I thought about selling my Ram and getting a new F150 ecoboost with max tow and just use that to move the camper 10 miles max each way about 3 or 4 times a year. I went on Ford's website and built and new CC 4x4 F150 XLT- it had some bells and whistles like remote start, average radio, power drivers seat, etc but wasn't loaded by any means (no leather, etc.). I did include max trailer tow and tow mirrors. Total price- $62,880....

I'll stick with my Ram.

Yep, that's a lot of money for any pickup for sure. F150 3.5 EB with max tow is very capable. I think it has over 2,000lb of payload capacity. I saw one a few years back towing a winnebago 5th wheel that wasn't small. It had the rear squatted a bit but seemed to handle it well and the owner and I talked about it and he was happy with the performance and said the F150 handled it well even on the highway.

 

[JerryETX]

Yep, that's a lot of money for any pickup for sure. F150 3.5 EB with max tow is very capable. I think it has over 2,000lb of payload capacity. I saw one a few years back towing a winnebago 5th wheel that wasn't small. It had the rear squatted a bit but seemed to handle it well and the owner and I talked about it and he was happy with the performance and said the F150 handled it well even on the highway.

Yes sir they are capable. I saw a guy couple of years ago pulling a 40 bumper pull with his. He had a Hensley weight distribution hitch which literally removes all sway. That hitch of around $3500 though. Lots of power but no way I’ll sink 60 grand in a half ton.

 

[GsRAM]

Yes sir they are capable. I saw a guy couple of years ago pulling a 40 bumper pull with his. He had a Hensley weight distribution hitch which literally removes all sway. That hitch of around $3500 though. Lots of power but no way I’ll sink 60 grand in a half ton.

Agreed 100%.

 

[MartyZ]

I have been reading up on re-gearing my axles on many forums and watching videos on the actual process.

I have the tendency to get a quote for something, see the labor price, and immediately try to see if I can save that cost by doing it myself.
The problem with re-gearing yourself is if you have never done it before there is a lot you could mess up and potentially destroy your new parts or worse.

A lot of guys have a special vice and a lot of fine digital measurement tools to verify distances, tensions, torques, etc.
The price of these tools alone is approaching the labor cost, so if you're not planning on doing re-gearing from your garage for a living this may not be the route to go.

The other option I thought of was pulling the whole differential out of a different truck.
(which is basically finding a diamond in landfill, most differentials at scrap yards have excess miles, are OEM gears, or got tweaked in whatever accident put the truck there.)
Just the rarity of what I'm looking for has deterred me from going to any yard.

I'm back to finding a reputable shop that has a good price.
Still haven't found that in my area. The search continues.
Bumping this thread. Any other ideas out there?

 

[GsRAM]

I think you've run all the options out there to ground Marty. Unfortunately, the cost to regear is high pretty much whoever you have do the work, its thousands of dollars and with the current parts and labor situation, it's also unfortunately not going to get cheaper as far as I can tell.

It's one of the main reasons I just decided to stay with my stock 3.73s. I dont tow often anymore and I run stock tires and wheels. I'd prefer more off the line grunt, but cannot justify the regear cost, especially knowing I'll never see that back at trade in time. If I towed heavy, often or was running big tires I'd probably bite the bullet and do it, but with stock tires and my current use it's not bad.

 

[JerryETX]

I have been reading up on re-gearing my axles on many forums and watching videos on the actual process.

I have the tendency to get a quote for something, see the labor price, and immediately try to see if I can save that cost by doing it myself.
The problem with re-gearing yourself is if you have never done it before there is a lot you could mess up and potentially destroy your new parts or worse.

A lot of guys have a special vice and a lot of fine digital measurement tools to verify distances, tensions, torques, etc.
The price of these tools alone is approaching the labor cost, so if you're not planning on doing re-gearing from your garage for a living this may not be the route to go.

The other option I thought of was pulling the whole differential out of a different truck.
(which is basically finding a diamond in landfill, most differentials at scrap yards have excess miles, are OEM gears, or got tweaked in whatever accident put the truck there.)
Just the rarity of what I'm looking for has deterred me from going to any yard.

I'm back to finding a reputable shop that has a good price.
Still haven't found that in my area. The search continues.
Bumping this thread. Any other ideas out there?

If I pulled more with my truck I would pay to have the rear axle changed. Yeah $4k is a lot of money but you can't buy another truck for that especially with the market falling. Also I wouldn't go to 4:10. At minimum I would go to 4:30 but that's because I do quite a bit of highway driving.

Another option would be a tuner. Might not be as good but you can still increase your power/towing power this way.

 

[SouthTexan]

$4k dollars?

You might as well get the diesel if you had to do that. I don't think you will get even 25% of that $4k back on resale, however, you are more likely get up to 90% of the $8k you spend on the diesel back on resale.

 

[JerryETX]

$4k dollars?

You might as well get the diesel if you had to do that. I don't think you will get even 25% of that $4k back on resale, however, you are more likely get up to 90% of the $8k you spend on the diesel back on resale.

It's a personal preference. You're right no way you'll get that back in resale. I was speaking more specifically to MartyZ with a 2014 who I assume is in his truck for a while and not going to sell it in a couple of years.

There's a lot of guys who spend way more than 4K on suspension and other upgrades that they won't get back either.

Diesel is for some not for others. I've had a diesel and they're not for me. For me initial cost, maintenance, cost of repairs and increase cost of fuel make it a no brainer to go with gas. I had a co-worker recently went from a gas 3/4 ton to a diesel. Was complaining cause his 2019 Chevy 6.0 gas only got 10 mpg the way he drives. He went to a diesel and now gets 13 mpg and he literally thinks he saving money.

 

[SouthTexan]

It's a personal preference. You're right no way you'll get that back in resale. I was speaking more specifically to MartyZ with a 2014 who I assume is in his truck for a while and not going to sell it in a couple of years.

There's a lot of guys who spend way more than 4K on suspension and other upgrades that they won't get back either.

Diesel is for some not for others. I've had a diesel and they're not for me. For me initial cost, maintenance, cost of repairs and increase cost of fuel make it a no brainer to go with gas. I had a co-worker recently went from a gas 3/4 ton to a diesel. Was complaining cause his 2019 Chevy 6.0 gas only got 10 mpg the way he drives. He went to a diesel and now gets 13 mpg and he literally thinks he saving money.

True, but I don't think many get a diesel just to save money just like many Challenger R/T owners didn't get the V8 over the V6 to save money or the F150 Ecoboost owner didn't get the turbo 6 over the base V6. Those engine options will cost the owner more and more over time since they use more fuel than the base engines. Like those people, most owners should get a diesel for the added power and capability those engines provide. Although the new headaches that the EPA has imposed on diesels may not be worth that added power and capability for some.

The fact that diesel does pay back in fuel savings or is even the same is just a bonus on top of the up to 90% of the up front cost you will get back on resale that most higher cost options like Laramie of 4wd will net you. If you got 90%($7,200) of the upfront $8k you spend 5 years and 100k miles later because you were able to sell the truck for $7,200 more than the base engine truck, that means that diesel option only cost you $800 over the course of 5 years. That is not bad for more power and capability. If you managed to save on fuel cost during that time period then that is just a bonus.

Although, never understood how no one ever talks about savings when it comes to paying $11k on a Laramie trim versus a tradesman trim, $3k on a 4wd versus a 2wd, or spending $3k(before added fuel costs) going from a base engine 3.7L 1500 that gets 23 mpg combined to a premium engine 5.7L Hemi 1500 that gets 17 mpg combined yet the second someone says diesel then fuel savings and having it pay for itself is the focal point of the conversation.