3500 SRW Tow Specs

[nlambert182]

Thanks lambert. I have walked other smaller toy haulers and not impressed with the layout or quality and I don't want a bumper pull. Wife is set on this trailer! May just get the trailer and weight it on the way home. See where the numbers are. If not bad, I will load it up and go back and weigh again. If way over, probably will bite the bullet and look at getting a dually....

I am learning the heavy duty truck and larger trailers so appreciate everyone providing feedback/information. Thank you!!!!!

This is my first fifth wheel. I pulled it home 4 hrs on the interstate. It's a 2008 Coachmen Adrenaline 43' toyhauler. Gross weight came in at just shy of 17k lbs. The truck is a 2012 Ram 2500 HO. It had leaf springs like your truck versus the coils on the one I have now and had a payload of 2,800 lbs. This is likely similar to what you're going to see. I managed to make it home and had the dealership pick it up. Rookie mistake on my part that I admit to.




We moved down to a lighter 34' bunkhouse that the truck could tow and had no issues with it for quite a long time. When the wife wanted a bigger trailer I went out and bought the truck to tow it first.



This is my 4th fifth wheel. 2020 Coachmen Chapparal 392MBL. Pulled it with my 2016 3500. 43' tip to tail and weighed in loaded at 16,480 lbs. The truck was sitting perfectly level when we were loaded up for camping.




Big difference in the squat for a trailer with relatively similar GVWRs and pin weights. If she's dead set on that specific trailer.... you need a DRW. There's really no issue with driving one vs a single wheel and there is no comparison to the stability when towing. I daily drove that silver truck for 3 years and to this day I wish I had it back. It's something you get used to relatively quickly. I could put that truck anywhere you could stick a single wheel... including through the car line at six flags.

 

[JHC1]

Not wanting to beat this issue to death but I am looking at a lighter 5th wheel (Paradigm 310RL) and possibly tow a small aluminum motorcycle trailer behind it. That being said, I went back to the scales to today. I removed the bed cover, bed mat and the Tow and Stow B&W hitch. Cargo was me, wife and a full tank of fuel. My new CAT scale weights are as follows:
- Steer - 5220#
- Drive - 3260#
- Gross - 8480#

So if I add a B&W Companion hitch (150#) back in, my available payload would be 3,670# (GVWR 12300# - GW 8480# = 3820# Payload - 150# hitch = 3,670# available pin weight. Is this correct? And when I calculate off of the GAWR of 7000# - 3260# drive axel = 3740# - 150# (B&W companion) = 3590# available on the axel. So basically I have about 3600# to deal with.

The Paradigm is 35' long and has a GVWR of 15000# (Valor 36V11 is 16950#) and a dry pin weight of 2530# (I know.....it means nothing) as compared to the 36V11 of 2995#. So certainly a lighter trailer.

The hitch on the back of the 310RL is rated for 3000# and 300# tongue weight so a light weight aluminum trailer would work to haul either an 850# Street Glide or a 600# 1250GS.

Thoughts please.........

 

[2003F350]

I've seen similar setups to that all day long. I think at that point you're going to be just fine. When loaded to max (you likely won't be) you'll probably be closer to 3k on the pin of this new trailer, which is well within your weight range. The trailer on the back you likely won't notice, HOWEVER if your truck is equipped to handle a camera on the back of the camper I would highly suggest it - that small trailer will be practically invisible to you when you're moving down the road, and you want to be able to be sure it's back there and behaving. At the very least, you're going to want a mirror or some bright-colored corner markers on it that stick out far enough you can see them, ANYTHING to make that little trailer visible.

I once met a friend of my FIL who was a state cop, who once pulled over an RV for no tail lights on the RV. The guy went back with the cop to see, and started throwing a fit, cursing and swearing. My FIL's friend told the guy he needed to calm down or he'd be cuffed and put in the back seat, and the guy looked right at him and said 'You don't understand, when I left there was a f***ing 20 foot boat back here!' Cop put out an APB, and they found it about 30 miles from where he left (he was something like 300 miles from home), hitch snapped off and upside down in the ditch. Not saying a camera would have prevented this, but he would have known about it a LOT sooner.

 

[nlambert182]

Not wanting to beat this issue to death but I am looking at a lighter 5th wheel (Paradigm 310RL) and possibly tow a small aluminum motorcycle trailer behind it. That being said, I went back to the scales to today. I removed the bed cover, bed mat and the Tow and Stow B&W hitch. Cargo was me, wife and a full tank of fuel. My new CAT scale weights are as follows:
- Steer - 5220#
- Drive - 3260#
- Gross - 8480#

So if I add a B&W Companion hitch (150#) back in, my available payload would be 3,670# (GVWR 12300# - GW 8480# = 3820# Payload - 150# hitch = 3,670# available pin weight. Is this correct? And when I calculate off of the GAWR of 7000# - 3260# drive axel = 3740# - 150# (B&W companion) = 3590# available on the axel. So basically I have about 3600# to deal with.

The Paradigm is 35' long and has a GVWR of 15000# (Valor 36V11 is 16950#) and a dry pin weight of 2530# (I know.....it means nothing) as compared to the 36V11 of 2995#. So certainly a lighter trailer.

The hitch on the back of the 310RL is rated for 3000# and 300# tongue weight so a light weight aluminum trailer would work to haul either an 850# Street Glide or a 600# 1250GS.

Thoughts please.........

Payload wise you should be fine with this rig assuming you don't slowly over time add back that 600# of cargo, etc... I will caution on towing two trailers behind a single wheel though. Yes... it will do it, but it won't be quite as stable so my word of advice is just to make sure you are careful with speed, etc... Otherwise if you get into a tailwag issue with the two trailers it may be a little more difficult to control.

I also highly caution relying on those fifth wheel receiver hitches as well.... they're not quite as sturdy as the one on a truck. Might be just fine... just be cautious.

 

[JHC1]

I've seen similar setups to that all day long. I think at that point you're going to be just fine. When loaded to max (you likely won't be) you'll probably be closer to 3k on the pin of this new trailer, which is well within your weight range. The trailer on the back you likely won't notice, HOWEVER if your truck is equipped to handle a camera on the back of the camper I would highly suggest it - that small trailer will be practically invisible to you when you're moving down the road, and you want to be able to be sure it's back there and behaving. At the very least, you're going to want a mirror or some bright-colored corner markers on it that stick out far enough you can see them, ANYTHING to make that little trailer visible.

I once met a friend of my FIL who was a state cop, who once pulled over an RV for no tail lights on the RV. The guy went back with the cop to see, and started throwing a fit, cursing and swearing. My FIL's friend told the guy he needed to calm down or he'd be cuffed and put in the back seat, and the guy looked right at him and said 'You don't understand, when I left there was a f***ing 20 foot boat back here!' Cop put out an APB, and they found it about 30 miles from where he left (he was something like 300 miles from home), hitch snapped off and upside down in the ditch. Not saying a camera would have prevented this, but he would have known about it a LOT sooner.

Thank you…..

 

[JHC1]

Payload wise you should be fine with this rig assuming you don't slowly over time add back that 600# of cargo, etc... I will caution on towing two trailers behind a single wheel though. Yes... it will do it, but it won't be quite as stable so my word of advice is just to make sure you are careful with speed, etc... Otherwise if you get into a tailwag issue with the two trailers it may be a little more difficult to control.

I also highly caution relying on those fifth wheel receiver hitches as well.... they're not quite as sturdy as the one on a truck. Might be just fine... just be cautious.

Sage advice. Retired so not in a hurry. I do plan on taking a close look at the hitch and see if it needs to be reinforced or upgraded, if possible. Thanks.

 

[nlambert182]

Just be aware that if you modify the hitch on a fifth wheel in any fashion, you void the frame warranty instantly. Alliance uses Lippert frames and Lippert is a stickler for modification. The only thing they approve is the Reese Goosebox mod. Likely because they now own Reese, but I digress.

 

[JHC1]

I wasn't aware but makes sense. I am looking at a light weight aluminum 5'x8' trailer. Should be fairly light on tongue and pulling. High Country makes a nice one.

 

[2003F350]

Just be aware that if you modify the hitch on a fifth wheel in any fashion, you void the frame warranty instantly. Alliance uses Lippert frames and Lippert is a stickler for modification. The only thing they approve is the Reese Goosebox mod. Likely because they now own Reese, but I digress.

He's referring to a hitch receiver on the back of the RV, not the tongue itself. They aren't generally rated for a lot of weight, BUT if need be I believe there are some aftermarket ones available that shouldn't void his frame warranty.

 

[joesstripclub]

If you end up back at a toy hauler, know that they are very tongue heavy unloaded. Loading my SxS into my toy hauler actually raises the front of the trailer up.

To address your frustration at the weight of trailer you can pull, I think most people just buy a 3/4 ton cummins and assume it can pull anything since its a diesel. I think a lot of people are way overloaded driving down the highway.

 

[nlambert182]

He's referring to a hitch receiver on the back of the RV, not the tongue itself. They aren't generally rated for a lot of weight, BUT if need be I believe there are some aftermarket ones available that shouldn't void his frame warranty.

Correct, and I should have clarified that. The only frame modification that Lippert approves is the Reese Goosebox. They consider that a frame mod. No aftermarket rear receiver hitches are approved if it didn't roll off the assembly line with it. I've been down this road with Lippert before.


Some receiver hitches on the back of fitfh wheels are rated for more weight than others. If it has safety chain hooks and a 4 pin connector... it is rated to tow a small trailer. Typically 3k lbs with 300# tongue weight. If it does not have the connector or the chain hooks, it is only rated for a cargo rack/bike rack/etc.. and usually not to exceed 250 lbs. Those are typically just bolted to the frame using subpar bolts. Some are even stuck on with self tapping screws. Some rear bumpers are only held on with self tappers to the frame as well.

 

[JHC1]

He's referring to a hitch receiver on the back of the RV, not the tongue itself. They aren't generally rated for a lot of weight, BUT if need be I believe there are some aftermarket ones available that shouldn't void his frame warranty.

Understand that. The hitch receiver on the back of the 310RL is rated for 3000# towing and 300 tongue weight.

 

[joedmoran]

This has been a great thread as we have a SRW 3500 HO with only 3700 CCC and really liked the Valor toy haulers. Unfortunately, everything out there that will fit our SxS is around 20,000 GCWR / 4,000# estimated pin weight loaded. As stated, I'm shocked at all of the 2500's pulling large 5ers but realize their cargo capacity is artificially limited buy gubmint regulations on 3/4-ton trucks. Looking at the tires and axles as recommended sounds best.

We currently bumper-pull a large toy hauler with about 2,250# tongue weight so I wasn't expecting this challenge with the 5th wheels... On to Plan B...

Thanks to all who took the time to walk through it!

 

[nlambert182]

The 2500 capacities aren't "just limited by government regulation". That may be a little more true on F250s, or a 2500 with leaf springs, but 4th gen 2500s past 2012 use coils. They cannot carry the same weight that a leaf can. Axles and tires are a big part of it, but the suspension also plays in. Some will tell you to slap some airbags on it and call it a day, but that isn't wise. If an airbag fails and all of that weight ends up back on the coils, you'll know it quickly. Even 2500s with leafs don't have the same leaf packs. Almost all (if not all) are missing overload leafs and their spring perches.

Realistically, if you want a 5th wheel toyhauler, you really need to step up AT LEAST to a 3500 single wheel as they still run leafs. For 20k I would move right on past to a 3500 DRW.

 

[2003F350]

This has been a great thread as we have a SRW 3500 HO with only 3700 CCC and really liked the Valor toy haulers. Unfortunately, everything out there that will fit our SxS is around 20,000 GCWR / 4,000# estimated pin weight loaded. As stated, I'm shocked at all of the 2500's pulling large 5ers but realize their cargo capacity is artificially limited buy gubmint regulations on 3/4-ton trucks. Looking at the tires and axles as recommended sounds best.

We currently bumper-pull a large toy hauler with about 2,250# tongue weight so I wasn't expecting this challenge with the 5th wheels... On to Plan B...

Thanks to all who took the time to walk through it!

As said above, the Ram 2500 isn't really limited by government regulations. It's actually physical limitations due to the coil springs - they just can't handle weight like leaf springs can, even if they're rated similarly. With a Ram 2500 you should be VERY selective about what fifth wheel, if any, you put behind it.

For what you're looking at, though, I agree with the above, you're in 3500 DRW territory or bigger. I think a SRW would probably do it in a pinch but it would be more comfortable with more wheels on the ground.

 

[Bearcatrp]

If your wife is dead set on that heavy 5th wheel, start pricing 5500 and 6500 DRW trucks. I have a 1 ton SRW pulling a 11000 lb 5th wheel trailer. But the wife packs it full so more like 12000 lb trailer. Still within plenty of range on weight. No way would I pull close or a little over weight. In an emergency, stopping will be critical if you have to lock it up. Get the right truck for the job, for you and your family safety. I see so many trucks sagging in the rear pulling over sized 5th wheels for the truck used. Yet, I see state patrol drive right by them without doing pulling them over. Do it right the 1st time and buy the right truck for the trailer you’re getting. Good luck.
Also, a long bed helps with stability plus you can get larger fuel tanks. I got a long bed so I could get a 50 gallon gas tank for the 6.4 I have. I pull mostly flat lands so no need for a diesel.

 

[nlambert182]

There's absolutely no reason to go to a 5500/6500 truck. A properly equipped 3500 SRW would likely do it, though I always opt for the DRW for stability and additional payload. The 5500/6500 still has the same engine and transmission (if Aisin) as the 3500s. The suspension on a 3500 DRW is more than adequate to pull most loads.

 

[2003F350]

If your wife is dead set on that heavy 5th wheel, start pricing 5500 and 6500 DRW trucks. I have a 1 ton SRW pulling a 11000 lb 5th wheel trailer. But the wife packs it full so more like 12000 lb trailer. Still within plenty of range on weight. No way would I pull close or a little over weight. In an emergency, stopping will be critical if you have to lock it up. Get the right truck for the job, for you and your family safety. I see so many trucks sagging in the rear pulling over sized 5th wheels for the truck used. Yet, I see state patrol drive right by them without doing pulling them over. Do it right the 1st time and buy the right truck for the trailer you’re getting. Good luck.
Also, a long bed helps with stability plus you can get larger fuel tanks. I got a long bed so I could get a 50 gallon gas tank for the 6.4 I have. I pull mostly flat lands so no need for a diesel.

Nlambert beat me to it, but there is NO reason to go to a truck that large for that trailer. My dad went to a crew cab dually GMC 3500 w/a 6.2 diesel (absolute WORST diesel ever built) in 1986 because we became a family of 5, then 6, even though at the time he only had about a 28' fifth wheel, and that's all he has owned since. Upgraded to a 35' TT w/a bunkhouse. Bought a new truck in '94, another CC dually 3500 GMC w/a 454, which eventually hauled a 12.5' truck camper or pulled a 42' fifth wheel weighing in at about 18k. He did finally go back to a diesel in '08, with an F450 which gave him a vastly improved turning radius. He doesn't need the payload capacity of that truck, but the turning radius is a nice bonus.

I personally pulled a 20k GVW toy hauler with an '04 F350 dually and had no issues. Wish I'd had more power, but the suspension and brakes were more than up to the task.

Regardless, there's no reason for a 5500/6500 for what OP is looking at. A 1-ton dually will do the job just fine.