392 Swap - High Oil Temps - What Would You Do?

[1SLwLS1]

I just stumbled across their PDF file,it pretty well explains how they operate.

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/content/Instructions/instructions.pdf

I’m quite familiar. If the piston bottoms out, that is bad, that means it is hydraulically locked, they explain that in the instructions, page (2) last paragraph of accusump fundamentals. They also state that the precharge of air pressure is set at 7-10#.

Do you still not think the volume is variable with system pressure?

 

[Wild one]

I’m quite familiar. If the piston bottoms out, that is bad, that means it is hydraulically locked, they explain that in the instructions, page (2) last paragraph of accusump fundamentals. They also state that the precharge of air pressure is set at 7-10#.

Do you still not think the volume is variable with system pressure?

It's not gonna be variable enough to affect anything,counting what's in the pan /cooler and accusump you'll probably have 9+ quarts or more in the system,a 1/4 quart isn't really going to change things much.If you're that worried about it,buy yourself another oil pan,and cut it up and weld it's bottem end to your pan to add more volumn to your stock pan,and lengthen the pick-up tube.You can easily get another couple quarts into the oil pan,by dropping the bottom of it by cutting up another pan,or by adding a strip of the same gauge steel as the pan to the sump drop. You're way over thinking this,lol.
Here i found a video by Uncle Tony explaining how to deepen your stock pan,as i don't think there's an aftermarket deep pan available for the trucks,but you could check,if anybody might have a deep pan,it's probably Milodon.

Dirt Cheap DIY Oil Pan Modifications For The Home Engine Builder

Unfortunately most people don't think about their oil pan until they lunch an engine because of slosh or starvation.Here's a quick guide on the basics, contr...

www.youtube.com

 

[Wild one]

Looks like Milodon does have a couple deep rear sump pans,that look like they'll fit the truck chassis .They also have the corresponding pick-up tube

DODGE. Milodon 31002 Milodon Pro Touring Oil Pans | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Milodon Pro Touring Oil Pans with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Oil Pans at Summit Racing.

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DODGE Milodon 31001 Milodon Pro Touring Oil Pans | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Milodon Pro Touring Oil Pans with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Oil Pans at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[1SLwLS1]

It's not gonna be variable enough to affect anything,counting what's in the pan /cooler and accusump you'll probably have 9+ quarts or more in the system,a 1/4 quart isn't really going to change things much.If you're that worried about it,buy yourself another oil pan,and cut it up and weld it's bottem end to your pan to add more volumn to your stock pan,and lengthen the pick-up tube.You can easily get another couple quarts into the oil pan,by dropping the bottom of it by cutting up another pan,or by adding a strip of the same gauge steel as the pan to the sump drop. You're way over thinking this,lol.
Here i found a video by Uncle Tony explaining how to deepen your stock pan,as i don't think there's an aftermarket deep pan available for the trucks,but you could check,if anybody might have a deep pan,it's probably Milodon.

Dirt Cheap DIY Oil Pan Modifications For The Home Engine Builder

Unfortunately most people don't think about their oil pan until they lunch an engine because of slosh or starvation.Here's a quick guide on the basics, contr...

www.youtube.com

I already admitted to overthinking this back in post #116. If they could provide the volume fluctuation, I would re-evaluate my decision, but they basically told me to figure it out and as previously stated, that turned me off of their product. I am definitely not looking to further complicate the accusump option with a modified pan for this volume fluctuation for a street truck. For me, the accusump adds too much complexity for the sole purpose of pre-lubing when the ADBV does not consistently work, it is also another pressure drop in the system, albeit minor and not full time. For a purpose built race engine with much narrower variables and conditions, I don't really see any downsides.

The entire point of looking into the accusump was to eliminate some inconsistent startup oil pressure delays caused by adding the oil cooler. After I looked into various options a few weeks back and diving deeper into the various scenarios, I reached the conclusion that I was having inconsistent ADBV performance where it would sometimes allow everything to drain back to the pan as evidenced by the oil level sometimes rising to the top notch on the dipstick after sitting overnight while at other times, only rising halfway between the notch and the full hash marks. Adding a check valve should help negate the inconsistent performance of the ADBV and solve the issue: occasional delay of oil pressure at startup due to large amount of air in oil cooler section of the system caused by ineffective anti-drain back valve. If adding the check valve does not work as expected, I am out nothing, a check valve is required for the accusump system to work as well, and the Improved Racing check valve I am sourcing is highly superior to the Canton check valve. In fact if the check valve solution is not as robust as hoped and I decided to move forward with an accumulator system, I would probably sway more to the Moroso product offering.

Anyway, the entire point of reviving this thread was to correct my previously incorrect guidance that if copying this setup, as another member was doing, the oil level after equilibrium is achieved (thermostat bypass open and sitting for several hours) should not be at the top notch/bend of the dipstick and that they should review/analyze the setup a bit more to correctly set the oil level for their exact setup.

 

[Mister Luck]

Thanks for keeping this thread current and updated,

Lean fuel ratios and…
Radiators that are past their prime were some of the problems I experienced.

 

[Goblue]

So I've got a 2013 crew cab with 3.92 rear gears, 8HP70 swap, and 392 swap with MMX NSR cam, stock bottom end, ported manifold, etc. This oil (Redline 5w-40) runs HOT and we're not even into summer (I am in TX).

Little background - fall of 2020 my 165K stock 5.7 decided to tire out and with the cost of new trucks and what I had recently put into the truck, I decided to keep it and upgrade the engine. Then I spent the following 2 years dealing with weak transmission issues and ended up swapping to an 8HP70. I finally got everything buttoned up and have been daily driving the truck since last summer/fall. At that time, when cruising 90 down the highway, I noticed the oil would routinely get well over 240-250F and raise the coolant temp up to around 220F - I have a 185F coolant thermostat that actually works but the delta between the engine's fluids could only be so high. Even putting around, the oil would always get over 220F and would probably average around 230F with reasonable highway speeds (60-70MPH), the coolant could somewhat manage this delta and would lower a bit, maybe around 200F.

So late last fall I put on an oil cooler (34 row 59K BTU) with 185F thermostat in the filter sandwich adapter. One of the problems with this setup was I had to use the small oil filter due to the 1.75" thick sandwich adapter. I thought the oil pressure was down ~5 PSI but I think it may be closer to a 10 PSI drop with the large cooler, I foolishly wasn't recording oil pressure and temperature on my logs until recently. Well that cooler got me through winter (great temps, pressure not so much) but I never liked the small filter and stumbled across a low profile sandwich adapter that allowed me to use the large filter (RP 20-820) and I put this on around mid-January. I did not realize that this low profile adapter did not have a thermostat of any kind and was full flow to the cooler all the time. So I took that off after two weeks and removed the cooler entirely and have been running nothing for about a month now but this oil is HOT and our ambient temps are only around 80F in the evening when I drive home. The coolant gets up 200F with the oil well over 240F cruising at 90 MPH for around 15-20 miles. The coolant falls back down to 185-190F when cruising at reasonable highways speeds and the EOT falls to around 220-230F.

So without the cooler, for oil pressure I would have low 60s at cold start idle, high 60s into the 70s at cold cruising, high 50s/low 60s warm/hot cruising, and plummet to high 30s at idle (800 rpm for cam). So I adjusted my tune (HPT) to raise idle depending on oil temp and basically it is unaffected until around 176F I bump it up to 825 (800 base), 875 rpm at 212F, and 975 rpm @ 240F all scaling between and it keeps me in the high 40s oil pressure at warm-hot idle. I would prefer higher idle oil pressures but c'mon 975 rpm idle on a street engine with tiny NSR cam seems about the limit of reasonable.

So with that said, what are other 392 truck owner's experiencing? I know this engine has the oil squirters to keep the pistons cool and I am sure they are working which is heating the oil considerably more than the 5.7 but also lowering idle oil pressure. Any other engine I would be okay with that pressure but these engines, particularly the lifters and camshaft, don't like to idle with low oil pressure. What would you do in my shoes?
1. Run 5w-50 oil - I already have to keep this handy for the Roush-charged mustang so it would allow me to consolidate engine oils.
2. Remote dual filters (30-8A)
3. Run the large oil cooler I have with a remote dual filter setup, would be rather expensive in parts setup
4. Run a smaller oil cooler
5. Run a smaller oil cooler with remote filter(s)
6. Hellcat oil pump - last ditch effort, I don't really want to tear into this
7. Moroso High Cap oil pan - also don't really want to headache with this
8. Some fancy A2W setup - big $$$
9. Nothing, f'in send it!
10. Some combination of choices or other??

Have you considered either removing the AGS or just al but the top and bottom slats from it so that the engine can get more air to breathe? I’d give it a try if I were you. One of my trucks is a ‘16 1500, 3.6 with 3.21 GR and it was running hot more than I liked, so I removed some slats ( if you take it completely out it sends a code , but leaving the 2 slats in it “ fools” the system). It NEVER runs hot anymore. Again though, it’s on a 3.6, and not a 5.7, but it was a free fix, and you’ve got nothing to lose. Good luck sir

 

[1SLwLS1]

Have you considered either removing the AGS or just al but the top and bottom slats from it so that the engine can get more air to breathe? I’d give it a try if I were you. One of my trucks is a ‘16 1500, 3.6 with 3.21 GR and it was running hot more than I liked, so I removed some slats ( if you take it completely out it sends a code , but leaving the 2 slats in it “ fools” the system). It NEVER runs hot anymore. Again though, it’s on a 3.6, and not a 5.7, but it was a free fix, and you’ve got nothing to lose. Good luck sir

My truck does not have active grill shutters but if I did, that definitely would be a contributing factor. I had to switch from the slatted sport grille to the open honeycomb design and that did wonders as well.

 

[Wild one]

I already admitted to overthinking this back in post #116. If they could provide the volume fluctuation, I would re-evaluate my decision, but they basically told me to figure it out and as previously stated, that turned me off of their product. I am definitely not looking to further complicate the accusump option with a modified pan for this volume fluctuation for a street truck. For me, the accusump adds too much complexity for the sole purpose of pre-lubing when the ADBV does not consistently work, it is also another pressure drop in the system, albeit minor and not full time. For a purpose built race engine with much narrower variables and conditions, I don't really see any downsides.

The entire point of looking into the accusump was to eliminate some inconsistent startup oil pressure delays caused by adding the oil cooler. After I looked into various options a few weeks back and diving deeper into the various scenarios, I reached the conclusion that I was having inconsistent ADBV performance where it would sometimes allow everything to drain back to the pan as evidenced by the oil level sometimes rising to the top notch on the dipstick after sitting overnight while at other times, only rising halfway between the notch and the full hash marks. Adding a check valve should help negate the inconsistent performance of the ADBV and solve the issue: occasional delay of oil pressure at startup due to large amount of air in oil cooler section of the system caused by ineffective anti-drain back valve. If adding the check valve does not work as expected, I am out nothing, a check valve is required for the accusump system to work as well, and the Improved Racing check valve I am sourcing is highly superior to the Canton check valve. In fact if the check valve solution is not as robust as hoped and I decided to move forward with an accumulator system, I would probably sway more to the Moroso product offering.

Anyway, the entire point of reviving this thread was to correct my previously incorrect guidance that if copying this setup, as another member was doing, the oil level after equilibrium is achieved (thermostat bypass open and sitting for several hours) should not be at the top notch/bend of the dipstick and that they should review/analyze the setup a bit more to correctly set the oil level for their exact setup.

I don't think there's as much if any volumn fluctation,as it's a cylinder,that even if you change the initial pressure from 7 to 10 psi,is still overcome by your oil pressure and basically the piston still bottoms out in the cylinder,it just means it'll change the pressure slightly where it activates and starts pushing oil back into the engine.
Another thing i wonder about is the way you're checking the oil,i've found the hemi's to be a bit deceptive on the oil checking procedure. What i do is completely remove the dipstick and let the engine sit for awhile.Try it out,when the engines hot,remove the dipstick as soon as you shut it off,let it sit for 15 minutes,then insert the dipstick and check the oil,then wipe the dipstick off,throw it on the fender and let the truck sit for several hours/overnight with-out the dipstick in the tube then re-insert the dipstick and check it again in several hours.Try that trick out and see if you notice as much differance in your oil levels as you're seeing by doing it the way you are which is re-inserting the dipstick each time and then letting it sit.It's just an idea to try,but like i said i've found the hemi's to be very deceptive and sensitive to the way you actually check the oil.
I haven't checked out Improved Racings ADBV but it's probably a high quality piece.
A oil pan with more capacity might be something you should also look into,as having more oil in the pan is usually never a bad idea,less chance of ever pumping the pan dry and uncovering the pick-up tube.You can tell when an engines pumped the pan dry,as the bearings closest to the oil pump will be the ones that take the $h!t kicking,as they get air first if the pick-up starts sucking air

 

[1SLwLS1]

I don't think there's as much if any volumn fluctation,as it's a cylinder,that even if you change the initial pressure from 7 to 10 psi,is still overcome by your oil pressure and basically the piston still bottoms out in the cylinder,it just means it'll change the pressure slightly where it activates and starts pushing oil back into the engine.
Another thing i wonder about is the way you're checking the oil,i've found the hemi's to be a bit deceptive on the oil checking procedure. What i do is completely remove the dipstick and let the engine sit for awhile.Try it out,when the engines hot,remove the dipstick as soon as you shut it off,let it sit for 15 minutes,then insert the dipstick and check the oil,then wipe the dipstick off,throw it on the fender and let the truck sit for several hours/overnight with-out the dipstick in the tube then re-insert the dipstick and check it again in several hours.Try that trick out and see if you notice as much differance in your oil levels as you're seeing by doing it the way you are which is re-inserting the dipstick each time and then letting it sit.It's just an idea to try,but like i said i've found the hemi's to be very deceptive and sensitive to the way you actually check the oil.
I haven't checked out Improved Racings ADBV but it's probably a high quality piece.
A oil pan with more capacity might be something you should also look into,as having more oil in the pan is usually never a bad idea,less chance of ever pumping the pan dry and uncovering the pick-up tube.You can tell when an engines pumped the pan dry,as the bearings closest to the oil pump will be the ones that take the $h!t kicking,as they get air first if the pick-up starts sucking air

When checking levels, the dipstick was removed, sitting around 12" out of the tube. It was then pulled, wiped, and re-inserted.

 

[Wild one]

When checking levels, the dipstick was removed, sitting around 12" out of the tube. It was then pulled, wiped, and re-inserted.

Take it right out of the tube and leave it out each time,that way you're starting with a clean tube and dipstick. Worth trying anyways,maybe it won't change anything,but the only way to find out is try it