392 Swap - High Oil Temps - What Would You Do?

[jafgreen]

Did I miss the part where you installed the higher capacity oil cooler ?
More power means more energy, which is more heat.

 

[Jupp Mueller]

Heat transfer through the cooler is proportional to oil flow rate. As you are noticing lowish oil pressure, wouldn't a hellcat oil pump be the way to go? Bigger pump, higher oil flow pushing through those extra coolers and filters, more heat taken out of the system.

Not a 392 expert here, just an engineer thinking.

 

[1SLwLS1]

Did I miss the part where you installed the higher capacity oil cooler ?
More power means more energy, which is more heat.

Yes, first post, explained I have a cooler, currently not hooked up. It's either high oil temps or low oil pressure in the current setup.

Heat transfer through the cooler is proportional to oil flow rate. As you are noticing lowish oil pressure, wouldn't a hellcat oil pump be the way to go? Bigger pump, higher oil flow pushing through those extra coolers and filters, more heat taken out of the system.

Not a 392 expert here, just an engineer thinking.

I've pretty much settled on the hellcat pump with existing large cooler and remote large filter(s) - leaning towards dual filter but may revert to single remote, haven't decided yet.

 

[Bandit1859]

So I've got a 2013 crew cab with 3.92 rear gears, 8HP70 swap, and 392 swap with MMX NSR cam, stock bottom end, ported manifold, etc. This oil (Redline 5w-40) runs HOT and we're not even into summer (I am in TX).

Little background - fall of 2020 my 165K stock 5.7 decided to tire out and with the cost of new trucks and what I had recently put into the truck, I decided to keep it and upgrade the engine. Then I spent the following 2 years dealing with weak transmission issues and ended up swapping to an 8HP70. I finally got everything buttoned up and have been daily driving the truck since last summer/fall. At that time, when cruising 90 down the highway, I noticed the oil would routinely get well over 240-250F and raise the coolant temp up to around 220F - I have a 185F coolant thermostat that actually works but the delta between the engine's fluids could only be so high. Even putting around, the oil would always get over 220F and would probably average around 230F with reasonable highway speeds (60-70MPH), the coolant could somewhat manage this delta and would lower a bit, maybe around 200F.

So late last fall I put on an oil cooler (34 row 59K BTU) with 185F thermostat in the filter sandwich adapter. One of the problems with this setup was I had to use the small oil filter due to the 1.75" thick sandwich adapter. I thought the oil pressure was down ~5 PSI but I think it may be closer to a 10 PSI drop with the large cooler, I foolishly wasn't recording oil pressure and temperature on my logs until recently. Well that cooler got me through winter (great temps, pressure not so much) but I never liked the small filter and stumbled across a low profile sandwich adapter that allowed me to use the large filter (RP 20-820) and I put this on around mid-January. I did not realize that this low profile adapter did not have a thermostat of any kind and was full flow to the cooler all the time. So I took that off after two weeks and removed the cooler entirely and have been running nothing for about a month now but this oil is HOT and our ambient temps are only around 80F in the evening when I drive home. The coolant gets up 200F with the oil well over 240F cruising at 90 MPH for around 15-20 miles. The coolant falls back down to 185-190F when cruising at reasonable highways speeds and the EOT falls to around 220-230F.

So without the cooler, for oil pressure I would have low 60s at cold start idle, high 60s into the 70s at cold cruising, high 50s/low 60s warm/hot cruising, and plummet to high 30s at idle (800 rpm for cam). So I adjusted my tune (HPT) to raise idle depending on oil temp and basically it is unaffected until around 176F I bump it up to 825 (800 base), 875 rpm at 212F, and 975 rpm @ 240F all scaling between and it keeps me in the high 40s oil pressure at warm-hot idle. I would prefer higher idle oil pressures but c'mon 975 rpm idle on a street engine with tiny NSR cam seems about the limit of reasonable.

So with that said, what are other 392 truck owner's experiencing? I know this engine has the oil squirters to keep the pistons cool and I am sure they are working which is heating the oil considerably more than the 5.7 but also lowering idle oil pressure. Any other engine I would be okay with that pressure but these engines, particularly the lifters and camshaft, don't like to idle with low oil pressure. What would you do in my shoes?
1. Run 5w-50 oil - I already have to keep this handy for the Roush-charged mustang so it would allow me to consolidate engine oils.
2. Remote dual filters (30-8A)
3. Run the large oil cooler I have with a remote dual filter setup, would be rather expensive in parts setup
4. Run a smaller oil cooler
5. Run a smaller oil cooler with remote filter(s)
6. Hellcat oil pump - last ditch effort, I don't really want to tear into this
7. Moroso High Cap oil pan - also don't really want to headache with this
8. Some fancy A2W setup - big $$$
9. Nothing, f'in send it!
10. Some combination of choices or other??

8

 

[Bandit1859]

So I've got a 2013 crew cab with 3.92 rear gears, 8HP70 swap, and 392 swap with MMX NSR cam, stock bottom end, ported manifold, etc. This oil (Redline 5w-40) runs HOT and we're not even into summer (I am in TX).

Little background - fall of 2020 my 165K stock 5.7 decided to tire out and with the cost of new trucks and what I had recently put into the truck, I decided to keep it and upgrade the engine. Then I spent the following 2 years dealing with weak transmission issues and ended up swapping to an 8HP70. I finally got everything buttoned up and have been daily driving the truck since last summer/fall. At that time, when cruising 90 down the highway, I noticed the oil would routinely get well over 240-250F and raise the coolant temp up to around 220F - I have a 185F coolant thermostat that actually works but the delta between the engine's fluids could only be so high. Even putting around, the oil would always get over 220F and would probably average around 230F with reasonable highway speeds (60-70MPH), the coolant could somewhat manage this delta and would lower a bit, maybe around 200F.

So late last fall I put on an oil cooler (34 row 59K BTU) with 185F thermostat in the filter sandwich adapter. One of the problems with this setup was I had to use the small oil filter due to the 1.75" thick sandwich adapter. I thought the oil pressure was down ~5 PSI but I think it may be closer to a 10 PSI drop with the large cooler, I foolishly wasn't recording oil pressure and temperature on my logs until recently. Well that cooler got me through winter (great temps, pressure not so much) but I never liked the small filter and stumbled across a low profile sandwich adapter that allowed me to use the large filter (RP 20-820) and I put this on around mid-January. I did not realize that this low profile adapter did not have a thermostat of any kind and was full flow to the cooler all the time. So I took that off after two weeks and removed the cooler entirely and have been running nothing for about a month now but this oil is HOT and our ambient temps are only around 80F in the evening when I drive home. The coolant gets up 200F with the oil well over 240F cruising at 90 MPH for around 15-20 miles. The coolant falls back down to 185-190F when cruising at reasonable highways speeds and the EOT falls to around 220-230F.

So without the cooler, for oil pressure I would have low 60s at cold start idle, high 60s into the 70s at cold cruising, high 50s/low 60s warm/hot cruising, and plummet to high 30s at idle (800 rpm for cam). So I adjusted my tune (HPT) to raise idle depending on oil temp and basically it is unaffected until around 176F I bump it up to 825 (800 base), 875 rpm at 212F, and 975 rpm @ 240F all scaling between and it keeps me in the high 40s oil pressure at warm-hot idle. I would prefer higher idle oil pressures but c'mon 975 rpm idle on a street engine with tiny NSR cam seems about the limit of reasonable.

So with that said, what are other 392 truck owner's experiencing? I know this engine has the oil squirters to keep the pistons cool and I am sure they are working which is heating the oil considerably more than the 5.7 but also lowering idle oil pressure. Any other engine I would be okay with that pressure but these engines, particularly the lifters and camshaft, don't like to idle with low oil pressure. What would you do in my shoes?
1. Run 5w-50 oil - I already have to keep this handy for the Roush-charged mustang so it would allow me to consolidate engine oils.
2. Remote dual filters (30-8A)
3. Run the large oil cooler I have with a remote dual filter setup, would be rather expensive in parts setup
4. Run a smaller oil cooler
5. Run a smaller oil cooler with remote filter(s)
6. Hellcat oil pump - last ditch effort, I don't really want to tear into this
7. Moroso High Cap oil pan - also don't really want to headache with this
8. Some fancy A2W setup - big $$$
9. Nothing, f'in send it!
10. Some combination of choices or other??

2019 bighorn runs 200 w. 215-220 oil always

 

[Hydrasport23]

I see that you installed a 185 thermostat. Did you reprogram the fan cycle duty for the lower temp stat? I have the 185 thermostat and my Hemi runs 192 on the highway and 190 around town. Are you sure the radiator shutters are opening? Those temps seem high.
I installed the Mellings high volume oil pump 3 years ago and idle pressure, hot, is 45 psi and 70 at 1600 RPM, hot, on the highway. Oil temps stay below 200 unless towing, then maybe 210. I think Mellings makes the Hellcat oil pump for Mopar.

 

[1SLwLS1]

I see that you installed a 185 thermostat. Did you reprogram the fan cycle duty for the lower temp stat? I have the 185 thermostat and my Hemi runs 192 on the highway and 190 around town. Are you sure the radiator shutters are opening? Those temps seem high.
I installed the Mellings high volume oil pump 3 years ago and idle pressure, hot, is 45 psi and 70 at 1600 RPM, hot, on the highway. Oil temps stay below 200 unless towing, then maybe 210. I think Mellings makes the Hellcat oil pump for Mopar.

Fan temp was lowered, 2013 model no active grill shutters. When cruising around town or even at highway speed in cooler ambient, coolant temps stay at 185, they only elevate when running hard and oil temp gets up with higher ambient temps. Nothing is wrong with the cooling system, other than being slightly undersized for the higher power and Texas heat - but when the oil temps rise, the engine's other main fluid rises with it. Just this morning, ambient was around 50F on the way in to work and coolant was 185F all the way and oil got up to 230F when cruising 90+ MPH. When I had the oil cooler hooked up, coolant temps were always 185, maybe 190F max when pushing it hard at higher ambient temps.

You installed the high volume pump on your stock 5.7 or what engine? Stock bearings/clearances or? Piston squirters? Do you have an oil cooler? What oil type and weight? I think if I had the larger pump, I would be disappointed with 45 PSI hot idle. Looking at a log from last December, with the thick sandwich adapter, smaller oil filter, stock 6.4 oil pump, and 34 row oil cooler, ambient was about 80F, oil pressure at hot idle (desired RPM 800) after cruising @ 90MPH, was around 43-45 PSI. I didn't have the oil temp logged but ECT was 190F.

When the weather gets back up to around 80F ambient after next week, I may need to hook up the sandwich adapter with small filter and large oil cooler just to get some comparable data logs as it would be 5-6 weeks before I (or local shop) could swap pumps anyhow. I think with that setup (stock oil pump, thermostatic sandwich adapter, small filter, large oil cooler), pressure is slightly lower than I would like (low-mid 40s) @ hot idle and only reaches mid-high 60s @ WOT. I think it is an okay setup, slightly less than ideal, but I really don't like the small filter and the only alternative is to get a remote mount filter setup, which is where I am at now. I am hoping with the hellcat pump, it would add at least 5-10 PSI to hot idle, but depending on your setup, 45 PSI does not seem worth it.

 

[Wild one]

That's smart to ziptie both ends. I just usually wrap the **** ouda it with electrical tape.
Ps. How's free speech prison? Pretty sad eh!

Trick i learned along time ago ,lol. I'm back,but i do have a few questions for my good buddy maddog,lol

 

[Burn2k12Ram]

Trick i learned along time ago ,lol. I'm back,but i do have a few questions for my good buddy maddog,lol

Welcome back buddy. Not the same around here without you my friend

 

[1SLwLS1]

Alright so bumping this back up with some new data. I think I am settled on the hellcat pump with dual remote large filter setup. I have a buddy/shop that I trust to do the work but it's not within their normal wheelhouse (more performance builds), they're backed up for several weeks, and he hasn't committed to accepting the work, so if they don't do it, I will tackle this sometime this summer when we move out of the rent house.

With that said, I hooked up the cooler with the thermostatic sandwich plate and small Fram filter to get some comparable data to my previous setup which is no cooler with RP 20-820 filter. Ambient finally warmed up to the same as the past couple of weeks (without oil cooler) and the table below shows the data for both setups. Keep in mind, I spin this up to around 6500 RPM at WOT and the idle RPM is scaled with oil temperature (increasing RPM with EOT) in both setups (same table, did not change).

Since this could be anywhere from 1-4 months until I get the ideal setup installed and I drive about 1800-2000 miles/month, which setup would you run with in the meantime? No oil cooler with larger PR 20-820 oil filter or cooler with thermostatic sandwich adapter and Fram XG10060 oil filter?

I am leaning towards no cooler at this point as the WOT oil pressure with the cooler is too low if you subscribe to the 10 PSI per 1000 RPM. Also to be fair, the oil cooler is centered within the radiator for ease of mounting but is not very efficient, I need to scoot it over in front of the grill opening to maximize airflow and possibly drop some more temperature from that setup. Also, with the cooler hooked up, I have noticed a weird whining noise occasionally, sounds just like a bad power steering pump, but I can really only hear it from the driver's seat, cannot hear it in the engine bay and it does increase with RPM when I can hear it. I haven't nailed down the set of conditions to duplicate it, but I am certain it is with the cooler as it started before I took the cooler off, stopped when I had the cooler disconnected, and started back up with the cooler reinstalled. I don't know if there is an air pocket occasionally trapped in the cooler, dipstick doesn't appear to show aerated oil, or maybe the oil velocity is high and one of the lines is rubbing the wheel liner transmitting the noise inside the cabin. I don't know, haven't invested a ton of time into that but will try cracking the top cooler hose (cooler oriented with connections on side, inlet on bottom) seeing if I can vent any possible air, whenever I move the cooler over in front of the grill opening this weekend.

Edit: Looks like I need to update my re-marked oil level as I may be cavitating the pump under those certain conditions, or check the level immediately after shutoff before the cooler has had time to drain back into the pan, or change my cooler orientation to having the connections on top.

Condition (Ambient 60-80F)​	Oil Temperature w/out Cooler (F)​	Oil Pressure w/out Cooler (PSIG)​	Coolant Temperature w/out Cooler (F)​	Oil Temperature w/Cooler (F)​	Oil Pressure w/Cooler (PSIG)​	Coolant Temperature w/Cooler (F)​
Cold Idle​	Ambient​	67​	Ambient​	Ambient​	63​	Ambient​
Cold Cruise​	<140​	65​	<185​	<140​	59​	<185​
Warm Idle​	185​	55​	185​	185​	49​	185​
Warm Cruise​	185-215​	62​	185-200​	185-200​	53​	185​
Warm WOT​	185-215​	75​	185​	185-200​	67​	185​
Hot Idle​	240-250​	45​	195-205​	220-230​	45​	185-190​
Hot Cruise​	240-250​	59​	195-205​	220-230​	52​	185-190​
Hot WOT​	240-250​	72​	200+​	235​	60-62​	185-190​