4th gen heads on 3rd gen?

[Sn4tchBandicoot]

Is 4th gen head swaps something guys do?

A buddy of mine has a set but they need valve work, which is fine for me since I plan to go bigger cam and such anyway.

He just wants them off his table so the price is right but if it’s not worth it then I won’t bother.

 

[HemiLonestar]

All the time lol. They're usually cheap used and a re a good budget upgrade. Eagle heads are good to 600hp naturally aspirated. Just have to modify some things for a 3rd gen, especially on a stock short block. Eagle heads have smaller chambers, if you bolt them on to your engine with stock thickness gaskets your compression ratio will be somewhere north of 11:1. Either thicker gaskets or opening the chamber up will mitigate that, though opening the chamber loses some of the quench the squished chamber provides and thicker gaskets require even longer pushrods than you would already need (eagles have longer/taller valves as well). Also means you have to do the 06+ coil conversion because your stock valve covers won't fit. Then you need adapters for your stock intake manifold to match the smaller manifold port to the larger head port. Stock manifold now becomes the choke point. Should point out now that it really isn't worth it doing through all this without a decent cam and with a 2003 (unless you've done the swap) you're not gonna be able to tune one. No other stock intake manifolds will fit properly without accessory drive modification. Exhaust ports are also different but the newer stock manifolds can be used or if you have round port headers with primaries big enough to cover the whole port. You can see how the whole thing snowballs lol.

 

[Sn4tchBandicoot]

All the time lol. They're usually cheap used and a re a good budget upgrade. Eagle heads are good to 600hp naturally aspirated. Just have to modify some things for a 3rd gen, especially on a stock short block. Eagle heads have smaller chambers, if you bolt them on to your engine with stock thickness gaskets your compression ratio will be somewhere north of 11:1. Either thicker gaskets or opening the chamber up will mitigate that, though opening the chamber loses some of the quench the squished chamber provides and thicker gaskets require even longer pushrods than you would already need (eagles have longer/taller valves as well). Also means you have to do the 06+ coil conversion because your stock valve covers won't fit. Then you need adapters for your stock intake manifold to match the smaller manifold port to the larger head port. Stock manifold now becomes the choke point. Should point out now that it really isn't worth it doing through all this without a decent cam and with a 2003 (unless you've done the swap) you're not gonna be able to tune one. No other stock intake manifolds will fit properly without accessory drive modification. Exhaust ports are also different but the newer stock manifolds can be used or if you have round port headers with primaries big enough to cover the whole port. You can see how the whole thing snowballs lol.

I actually just did the 06+ coil upgrade and 05 pcm so that’s a non issue to that respect.

Just really wondering how much extra I’m gonna have to do to make it work and what I’ll have to get.

 

[HemiLonestar]

Refresh heads - however much $$ that ends up costing (more with a spring upgrade, though Mopar has a nice factory upgrade spring P5160074
Open the chambers - at least a few hundred in machine work
Stock eagle pushrods
Valve covers if the heads don't come with them (average about $100 a set for eagle or apache vc's)
Same rockers so you're good there
OR
Thicker cometic gaskets - about $300ish for the set (.075's)
Longer custom pushrods to match - usually a couple hundred bucks

Then you have to decide on induction
Stock intake manifold needs these: https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/...sion-plates-by-modern-muscle-performance.aspx
OR
6.1, eagle (truck or car) or truck 6.4 intake needs these:
https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/...sion-plates-by-modern-muscle-performance.aspx
http://www.modernmusclextreme.com/p-795-dodge-ram-61l-hemi-intake-adapter-kit.aspx

Not including cam, lifters, oil pump or timing chain if you so desire lol.

 

[Sn4tchBandicoot]

Refresh heads - however much $$ that ends up costing (more with a spring upgrade, though Mopar has a nice factory upgrade spring P5160074
Open the chambers - at least a few hundred in machine work
Stock eagle pushrods
Valve covers if the heads don't come with them (average about $100 a set for eagle or apache vc's)
Same rockers so you're good there
OR
Thicker cometic gaskets - about $300ish for the set (.075's)
Longer custom pushrods to match - usually a couple hundred bucks

Then you have to decide on induction
Stock intake manifold needs these: https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/...sion-plates-by-modern-muscle-performance.aspx
OR
6.1, eagle (truck or car) or truck 6.4 intake needs these:
https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/...sion-plates-by-modern-muscle-performance.aspx
http://www.modernmusclextreme.com/p-795-dodge-ram-61l-hemi-intake-adapter-kit.aspx

Not including cam, lifters, oil pump or timing chain if you so desire lol.

So now do I have to upgrade the lifters to something over stock or can I got with OEM ones? Not that I likely would given the track record on the new stuff, but still lol.

 

[HemiLonestar]

There's only one real "upgrade" lifter set that I know of and those are the Johnson's: https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/HydraulicRollerLifters.aspx (scroll down to GenIII hemi)
https://hotrodenginetech.com/gen-iii-hemi-lifter-tick-solved/
You can also get them from HHP, etc but they're pretty much the same price ($725 for a set of drop-ins vs $450-500 or so for a set of OEM Hellcat lifters, which are now the standard non-MDS lifter)
Unless you're paranoid or going with a really heinous cam (not the best idea in a relatively small displacement engine in a heavy truck) with matching spring pressures and you don't have a fuckton of miles, you should be fine. People been doing 3G hemi cam swaps since 2005 (when the 6.1 came out and there was finally another cam to use lol) and reusing the stock lifters.

 

[ghost03hemi]

You might want to look at this MMX vid on lifters. Just something to think about.

 

[Robsex]

I'm new to this site: I have a 2012 Ram 2500 5.7 non mds and the block is bad. I can pick up low milage 3rd gen cheap. Can I put the heads and everything on top onto the 3rd gen and put back into my truck with no problems?

 

[LoneWolf3574]

I'm new to this site: I have a 2012 Ram 2500 5.7 non mds and the block is bad. I can pick up low milage 3rd gen cheap. Can I put the heads and everything on top onto the 3rd gen and put back into my truck with no problems?

Please read the entire thread and you will have your question answered.

 

[Daw14]

I'm new to this site: I have a 2012 Ram 2500 5.7 non mds and the block is bad. I can pick up low milage 3rd gen cheap. Can I put the heads and everything on top onto the 3rd gen and put back into my truck with no problems?

We have a search function on this site , it works really well. Lots of answers already splaned in this very thread. Read .

 

[HemiLonestar]

No the answers are not here lol, you guys have misunderstood his question.

I'm new to this site: I have a 2012 Ram 2500 5.7 non mds and the block is bad. I can pick up low milage 3rd gen cheap. Can I put the heads and everything on top onto the 3rd gen and put back into my truck with no problems?

No, you cannot put a 3rd gen block in your 4th gen. 3rd gen block doesn't have VVT provision nor the correct tooth count crank wheel for your PCM to run. You need the correct engine, which for your vehicle would be a 5.7 2009 to 2012. Tone wheels changed slightly for 2013.