6.4 SRT swap in a 2020 ram 2500?

[RAM-pagingMN]

Hey guys, traded in my 2017 ram 2500 for my new 2020 6.4 2500 in flame red. The 8 speed is amazing. Ive pondered it a while now, but has anyone heard of this swap? those motors should bolt up to this transmission right? just seems like an easy way to get to 500 hp and relatively cost effective/reliable.

 

[mlrtimemach]

From what I've heard it's the same motor but tuned downed for the truck. Could be wrong

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[392DevilDog]

They are completely different motors. The 6.4l BGE has more in common with the 6.2l Hellcat.

The 6.4l SRT just isn't intended for HeavyDuty use.

I guess if you are just driving the truck, sure it might be ok. But if you are planning to tow heavy...it really isnt the option.

I would assume as far as hooking it to the 8 spd they would be similar...or something could be made to work.

Good luck. Would be interested to see it done

 

[mlrtimemach]

Ahhhh it was the Hellcat then. Either one is a bad ass motor

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[RAM-pagingMN]

yea I understand the difference. I tow a 26 foot boat in the summer but that's only 6k dry. I imagine if the Jeep SRT Cherokee can tow 7500 then it isnt that bad for towing? Obviously if you were regularly towing above 10k it may not last but cant see it being that much different in reliability.

 

[theviking]

In 2018 the SRT 6.4 started using the same BGE/Hellcat block. The BGE heads do use a better casting with t356 aluminum but the valves are upgraded in the SRT motor (hollow intake stem/sodium filled exhaust). The SRT motor has .9 point higher compression but the pistons have less material above the top ring land.

Personally I doubt you'd have any trouble with the SRT motor in most applications. Considering they used the 5.7 for 15 years in HD trucks and it's a far less robust motor. I'd use a non-MDS 6.4 long block, put a good set of headers on it along with a custom tune. All the other components (intake, front cover, FEAD, etc.) are a direct swap. Would be a fun motor.

 

[Wild one]

Hey guys, traded in my 2017 ram 2500 for my new 2020 6.4 2500 in flame red. The 8 speed is amazing. Ive pondered it a while now, but has anyone heard of this swap? those motors should bolt up to this transmission right? just seems like an easy way to get to 500 hp and relatively cost effective/reliable.

Why not put a cam / long tube headers /ported intake manifold on your truck 6.4.It'll get you close to what the SRT 6.4 puts out,plus you'll still have the better truck pistons.You'll need long tube headers and tune to take advantage of the SRT's higher rpm,plus you have to swap all the front timing components / intake manifold /oil pan etc. over off your trucks 6.4 to bolt the SRT 6.4 in anyways. Check with one of the custom aftermarket cam outfits like Franks Racing (FRI) /High Horse Performance (HHP)/ Modern Muscle Xtreme (MMX) / Flying Ryan Performance (FRP) / Bischoff Engine Services (BES) / Jay Greene / Texas Speed Performance (TSP) etc for a cam spec'd for your situation.That'd give you a better cam then what the factory SRT cam is,as the 6.4 SRTS still have the same cam/lifter issues as the 5.7's and truck 6.4's have. Flying Ryan has been doing the tuning on alot of the 6.4 swapped 1500's,so i'd probably check with him for the tuning aspects,either way you're going to have to have it custom tuned. You could even look into whether there's aftermarket higher stall torque convertors available for your HD 8HP75 tranny,as you'd probably want a convertor behind the SRT 6.4 as it's down on bottom end torque compared to your trucks torque monster 6.4

 

[theviking]

Why not put a cam / long tube headers /ported intake manifold on your truck 6.4.It'll get you close to what the SRT 6.4 puts out,plus you'll still have the better truck pistons.You'll need long tube headers and tune to take advantage of the SRT's higher rpm,plus you have to swap all the front timing components / intake manifold /oil pan etc. over off your trucks 6.4 to bolt the SRT 6.4 in anyways. Check with one of the custom aftermarket cam outfits like Franks Racing (FRI) /High Horse Performance (HHP)/ Modern Muscle Xtreme (MMX) / Flying Ryan Performance (FRP) / Bischoff Engine Services (BES) / Jay Greene / Texas Speed Performance (TSP) etc for a cam spec'd for your situation.That'd give you a better cam then what the factory SRT cam is,as the 6.4 SRTS still have the same cam/lifter issues as the 5.7's and truck 6.4's have. Flying Ryan has been doing the tuning on alot of the 6.4 swapped 1500's,so i'd probably check with him for the tuning aspects,either way you're going to have to have it custom tuned. You could even look into whether there's aftermarket higher stall torque convertors available for your HD 8HP75 tranny,as you'd probably want a convertor behind the SRT 6.4 as it's down on bottom end torque compared to your trucks torque monster 6.4

I can give you good answer since that's exactly what I did. I purchased the MMX BGE camshaft on their recommendation:
https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/p-1431-64l-hemi-performance-camshaft-kit-bge-ram-na-by-mmx.aspx

They advertise a lift (.592/.552) but what came on my cam card is slightly different. If you compare this to what's been posted online for the SRT 6.4 cam (duration at .050 215/221, lift .574/.541) it actually appears to be slightly more aggressive. Even though it's advertised as a truck cam.



The kit itself lists for $1700 but when you add everything else in that's required to complete the swap it's almost $2200. Heads need to be removed to do a lifter swap so book time for a complete cam/lifter install is about 21 hours, not including springs. I also installed a Hellcat oil pump so the pan needs to come off, otherwise it's not necessary. Obviously if you're doing the work yourself none of the labor times matter much.

Compared that to purchasing a complete non-MDS long block assembly for about 5k (once you factor in the core charge return)
https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/pr...4-hemi-long-block-assembly-non-mds-2013-2017/

The SRT motor will give you .9 higher compression, better intake/exhaust valves, plus a good performance camshaft. The only thing that's "downgraded" are the head castings but again, for most situations I don't think this is worth worrying about. But what you really have is peace of mind that everything was assembled/torqued/timed properly since it's a factory assembly.

ARH headers (only one's available) are $1800 and the converter is $600 but at least labor costs are minimal since the engine is already out. Custom cam tuning through Hemifever was $400, would assume similar for a SRT motor tune. It should be relatively simple to tune since they already have a solid baseline with all the 6.4 Charger/Challenger/Jeep tunes available already. Not sure on the book time for engine replacement but safe bet it's less then a cam/lifter/spring swap.

If I did it all over again I'd probably have just gone the SRT long block route. With the headers and tune you'd have a proven 500 rwhp recipe (in a car anyway), with about factory reliability. Plus a spare motor in case anything ever happens. Would probably have cost me another $2500 over the cam swap but if I decided to sell the original BGE motor most of that would be recouped.

 

[theviking]

Food for thought, another good option IMO is just to purchase the 5.7 Whipple kit. The only issue I see with using this kit on a 6.4 is the EGR setup. There a a big EGR cooler right under the intake manifold.


Fortunately it's relatively easy to delete the kit. MMX sells a block off plate for the intake and I just made an identical plate out of steel for the header/exhaust port. Otherwise you just need a piece of hose to loop the coolant line. I deleted mine and getting rid of the codes has been the only difficult part.

The 5.7 and 6.4 FEAD setup is essentially identical up until the 1500's started using electronic power steering. You would need a custom tune but again, lot's of baseline's out there to choose from. With the truck's lower compression and better piston design this motor should tolerate boost better than a 5.7 or 6.4 SRT.

 

[Wild one]

Food for thought, another good option IMO is just to purchase the 5.7 Whipple kit. The only issue I see with using this kit on a 6.4 is the EGR setup. There a a big EGR cooler right under the intake manifold.
View attachment 232584

Fortunately it's relatively easy to delete the kit. MMX sells a block off plate for the intake and I just made an identical plate out of steel for the header/exhaust port. Otherwise you just need a piece of hose to loop the coolant line. I deleted mine and getting rid of the codes has been the only difficult part.

The 5.7 and 6.4 FEAD setup is essentially identical up until the 1500's started using electronic power steering. You would need a custom tune but again, lot's of baseline's out there to choose from. With the truck's lower compression and better piston design this motor should tolerate boost better than a 5.7 or 6.4 SRT.

Downside to boosting a stock 6.4 or 5.7,is the fact it won't live for very long,especially if you tow with it.No matter what Whipple or any other blower manufacture'r says,they won't take boost reliably with-out upgrading the pistons and rods.
Even if he goes with a factory 6.4 long block assembly,he's still dealing with the same soft cam and lifter issues that are fairly common in the 5.7's and 6.4's.His truck is new so he'll be okay with the stock oil pump,and that's one thing that is reliable,i've yet to hear of a 5.7 or 6.4 blowing up from a bad oil pump,and his bearing clearances are set up for the stock pump,so he won't need the higher volumne Hellcat pump.He'll have to budget for an unlocked pcm and tuning which ever way he goes,as you can't drop a SRT 6.4 in and expect it run right ,with-out tuning for it.The upside to the 6.4 long block swap,is the fact he can sell his truck 6.4 and recoup some of the cost

 

[theviking]

IDK about the bearing clearances causing issues with the Hellcat pump or not. I discussed it with Robert at MMX and he didn't think it was a bad idea. Mostly just peace of mind trying to keep enough oil in the lifters. And because the truck has 75k figured I'd just do it while it's already apart.

Not much feedback from anyone with blowers on the BGE motors. But technically one point lower compression and additional material above the top ring land should make the motor more boost friendly. How much, who knows. Ring gap might certainly still be an issue as well. Procharger has had their kit out for a while now but I haven't heard any feedback from someone running one.

 

[RedneckHippy]

If I were looking at all that money and headache for that little horsepower gain, might as well have tuned a Cummins to a couple hundred more horsepower and be able to tow the snot out of anything.

 

[Wild one]

IDK about the bearing clearances causing issues with the Hellcat pump or not. I discussed it with Robert at MMX and he didn't think it was a bad idea. Mostly just peace of mind trying to keep enough oil in the lifters. And because the truck has 75k figured I'd just do it while it's already apart.

Not much feedback from anyone with blowers on the BGE motors. But technically one point lower compression and additional material above the top ring land should make the motor more boost friendly. How much, who knows. Ring gap might certainly still be an issue as well. Procharger has had their kit out for a while now but I haven't heard any feedback from someone running one.

In your case with 75,000 on the truck,upgrading to the Kitty Cats pump wasn't a bad idea,but it's not really needed on a brand new low milege truck. The Hellcat pump has longer gears so it's a high volumne pump more then it's a high pressure pump.A higher volumne pump also makes the engine harder to start in cold weather.Most guys don't realize it's the drag of the oil pump trying to pump cold oil,that makes an engine hard to start in cold temps,cold pistons and cylinder walls aren't the reason,it's the oil pump trying to pump cold oil that makes an engine hard to start at -20,lol.There's more clearance between the pistons and cylinder walls when the engine is cold,so piston drag is actually less on a cold engine,then a warm engine

 

[RAM-pagingMN]

Lots of great info and discussion, I dont get why they just dont make an SRT version of the 2500 or better yet, put it in the power wagon to really boost sales like they did the SRT 392 jeep. It seems like a no brainer since the PW is down on towing already and it would propel Ram past the 7.3 once again lead the gas HP wars.

 

[theviking]

Bec

Lots of great info and discussion, I dont get why they just dont make an SRT version of the 2500 or better yet, put it in the power wagon to really boost sales like they did the SRT 392 jeep. It seems like a no brainer since the PW is down on towing already and it would propel Ram past the 7.3 once again lead the gas HP wars.

At one point there definitely was a 426 in the works but that was shelved at some point. Don't know if it was just for cars, or the trucks as well. IMO, all the cost cutting and mergers taking place have stifled most of the development. They even had plans to kill off the 5.7 after the I6 was released but apparently that's been delayed as well. Good thing as I can't imagine trying to sell a full size American truck without a V8 option. Sadly there seems to be no further development on the 5.7 platform regardless, considering it hasn't seen a major update since 2009.

 

[RAM-pagingMN]

Yea, the 5.7 needs a HP boost badly. Even putting the 6.4 SRT engine in the 1500 and making another option besides the TRX would suffice.

 

[cms1528]

Some more reading about the 6.4 Hemi in the 2500 from factory....

https://www.allpar.com/threads/6-4-liter-hemi-truck-engines-for-ram-pickups-and-chassis-cabs.229878/

 

[theviking]

Just an FYI. The valves are not sodium filled, just nitride coated. Not sure how much it matters in our application but I see this commonly misstated.

 

[streborm]

I did the swap. FRP has the 392 blocks. I put in hellfire 2.0 cam and tune through FRP and night and Day performance. Mine is a 2018 Ram 2500. I did hellcat oil pump and mad delete as well. Leveled on 37’s. It is fast for a big truck.