8 speed fluid change

[jvbuttex]

hmmm I don't remember such drain plug (could have missed it). when i did my change, I emptied the pan via removing the trans pan bolts and dropping it into the drain pan. But what does the drain plug have anything to do fill plug? If your adding fluid, its the procedure to fill it up with X quarts, start the engine, get up to temp, remove the plug and wait for it to dribble out. Either way, the amount of level you see on the scale is not feet of difference, its inches at most. If someone cannot see a level vehicle then I guess they need to do fluid level checks.

 

[chrisbh17]

hmmm I don't remember such drain plug (could have missed it). when i did my change, I emptied the pan via removing the trans pan bolts and dropping it into the drain pan. But what does the drain plug have anything to do fill plug? If your adding fluid, its the procedure to fill it up with X quarts, start the engine, get up to temp, remove the plug and wait for it to dribble out. Either way, the amount of level you see on the scale is not feet of difference, its inches at most. If someone cannot see a level vehicle then I guess they need to do fluid level checks.

The below pic is somewhat representative. Now picture the pan tilted (even a little bit) either way....your "check plug" level is not representative of the actual fluid level.

As far as the truck being level, you are looking at the body, not really the frame. The frame is what the trans mounts to, so just making sure the body is level is also not the best way.

 

[Atcer2018]

It sounds a lot harder than it actually is. I can’t imagine a trained Ram tech couldn’t do this in under an hour as it took me a DYIer two hours the first time. If you can change your own oil you can do the transmission service. The dealer cost is ridiculous as no dealer pays retail for parts and the OEM pan is $169 online and you can get 6 qts of the fluid delivered for $100 on eBay. Even if they pay the tech $100 per hour which they don’t, it’s a pretty good profit on a one hour procedure. I would think the toughest part for you V8 folks is the exhaust being in the way but I have the whimpy V6 so life is a bit easier in the low power group. Lol

 

[jvbuttex]

The below pic is somewhat representative. Now picture the pan tilted (even a little bit) either way....your "check plug" level is not representative of the actual fluid level.

As far as the truck being level, you are looking at the body, not really the frame. The frame is what the trans mounts to, so just making sure the body is level is also not the best way.

this is the part where you are confusing me, I guess I have a diff model 8 speed... mine has the fill / check plug coming in from side of the trans ( like most u tube vids), not the bottom in your picture. Is that a Ram trans pan, or just a representation?

bottom line use a level if you wish.

 

[chrisbh17]

this is the part where you are confusing me, I guess I have a diff model 8 speed... mine has the fill / check plug coming in from side of the trans ( like most u tube vids), not the bottom in your picture. Is that a Ram trans pan, or just a representation?

bottom line use a level if you wish.

The fill plug is on the side of all of them. The drain/level check plug is on the bottom.

The fill plug being on the side doesnt change much....you pump it full of fluid and then let the fluid takes it own level by coming back out the fill hole. If the truck is tilted to the side of the fill plug, it will take less fluid to get it to dribble back out. If its tilted to the side OPPOSITE the fill plug, it will take more before it starts to dribble out.

In either case, the fluid will still come out, but once the truck is level again you are not guaranteed the correct fluid level.

The only reason I even harp on it is because there are a lot of people (including ZF) that stress how important correct fluid level is for this transmission.

 

[jvbuttex]

its funny, even the ZF page I find does not mention the drain/level check plug you speak of. It does however show this....
maybe you can provide us the OEM procedure you speak of, so we all can be on same page. I just watched many vids, threads of procedure steps, nobody showed the tube/plug you speak of.

Also, in your picture, if that tube to check the level exceeds the fluid level height, how would you ever drain the fluid out? All the drain plugs in the pan I have seen, mine included, do not have the tube you describe.

 

[PoMansRam]

No, there's no 'riser' in the fill plug of the 8HP70 or 8HP45. I do know of transmission with them and have serviced ones with risers like pic'd above. The opening is horizontal on ours. In regards to the pan rail on the trans needing to be leveled. I get it and I can see how that will effect the level in the pan in relation to the fill port, but I don't think level difference is a problem for the transmission given the countless drain/fill tutorials online and basically none of them jacking the ass end of the truck up to "level the transmission". I think their might be one or two videos with doing that and dozens without.

 

[Atcer2018]

+1 with JVbuttex, the drain plug is only a drain plug. The fill plug is the level check plug. I’ve had three of these off and as in the flow chart presented you fill the via the full plug and get the correct level of fluid when it starts to come out of the fill hole at the proper operating temperature and the pan being physically level. My wife has a Ford and my daughter a Hyundai and both use similar procedures. Most newer vehicle transmissions have their maintenance quirks and the Ram/ZF isn’t all that bad. My Ford requires me to pull the driver side front wheel and loosen the wheel well liner and the Hyundai takes what seems like three hours to fill with the restrictive fill/vent opening.

 

[chrisbh17]

ZF YouTube vid for 6 speed (close or exact to 8 speed procedure):
Weber Tech YouTube vid:
Service manual text (the bold on "level hoist" is in the manual, not added by me):

STANDARD PROCEDURE - CHECK OIL LEVEL

To properly check and fill the transmission, perform the following procedure:

WARNING:
There is a risk of accident from vehicle moving when the engine is running. Secure vehicle to prevent it from moving. There is a risk of injury from contusions and burns if you insert your hands into the engine when it is running. Do not touch hot or rotating parts. Wear properly fitted work clothes.

CAUTION:
A unique transmission fluid has been developed for this transmission. This fluid is NOT compatible with ATF+4 or any other current Chrysler transmission fluid. For specifics about this unique fluid see FLUIDS, LUBRICANTS AND GENUINE PARTS.

NOTE:Oil dye is not required to find leaks in the 8HP transmission. The oil dye can cause shift quality issues and is not recommended. The 8HP fluid has illuminance that is visible under a black light.

1. Raise and support the vehicle on a level hoist See: Maintenance\Vehicle Lifting\Service and Repair (Refer to 04 - Vehicle Quick Reference/Hoisting - Standard Procedure).
2. Start the engine. The engine must continue to run for the entire test.
3. Using a scan tool or the vehicle information center, verify that the transmission fluid temperature is below 30°C (86°F).
4. Disable traction control (ESC).
5. Remove the fill plug from the right rear of the transmission case.
6. Add transmission fluid until it trickles from the fill opening.
7. Install the fill plug.
8. Lower the vehicle for access to inside of the vehicle, leaving the tires at least 8 inches off the ground.
9. With the brakes applied, place the transmission in Reverse and hold for 5 seconds.
10. Place the transmission in Drive and hold for 5 seconds.
11. Release the brakes, slowly accelerate to 2nd gear and hold for 5 seconds.
12. Apply the brakes and place the transmission in Neutral.
13. Raise the engine speed to 2000 RPM for 5 seconds.
14. Return the engine to idle and place the transmission in Park. NOTE:

A full transmission will have fluid at the fill hole with the transmission between 30°C (86°F) and 50°C (122°F). Do not over fill.

1. Remove the fill plug and allow excess fluid to drain from fill hole or add fluid as necessary.
2. Install the fill plug.
3. Using a scan tool, clear any DTCs.

 

[chrisbh17]

This is a good one, too:

 

[El Huapo]

its funny, even the ZF page I find does not mention the drain/level check plug you speak of. It does however show this....
maybe you can provide us the OEM procedure you speak of, so we all can be on same page. I just watched many vids, threads of procedure steps, nobody showed the tube/plug you speak of.

Also, in your picture, if that tube to check the level exceeds the fluid level height, how would you ever drain the fluid out? All the drain plugs in the pan I have seen, mine included, do not have the tube you describe.

View attachment 189085

The fill/overflow tube that was described prior sounds like the ones on the older BMW's. On some of them, you had to drop the pan to drain the fluid, then put it back up and squirt fluid in through the tube until it began to overflow.
I like the ZF information page you referenced and I went to ZF to see if I could get a similar one for my trans, the 845RE, but failed. Would you have a specific reference for that one?

 

[chrisbh17]

The fill/overflow tube that was described prior sounds like the ones on the older BMW's. On some of them, you had to drop the pan to drain the fluid, then put it back up and squirt fluid in through the tube until it began to overflow.
I like the ZF information page you referenced and I went to ZF to see if I could get a similar one for my trans, the 845RE, but failed. Would you have a specific reference for that one?

That ZF PDF file does state put it on a horizontal lift (i.e., level).

There is no "tube" in the drain plug, but it sure looks like there is something molded into the plastic pan.

The fill being where it is will still require the trans be pretty level for it to be accurate. Tilt it to the opposite side and it will take more fluid to fill before coming out of the fill hole.

Overall its probably a matter of ounces, but again, ZF warns of incorrect fluid level causing issues....how incorrect it never really says, but with an expensive transmission like this I would just make sure you get it level.

 

[jvbuttex]

The fill/overflow tube that was described prior sounds like the ones on the older BMW's. On some of them, you had to drop the pan to drain the fluid, then put it back up and squirt fluid in through the tube until it began to overflow.
I like the ZF information page you referenced and I went to ZF to see if I could get a similar one for my trans, the 845RE, but failed. Would you have a specific reference for that one?

Yes I did see older BMW's with that tube, however this is a RAM forum. None of the pics i have seen online or the pan i pulled off my truck nor its aftermarket replacement, had this tube. So why are we posting such pictures is my point.

That ZF PDF file does state put it on a horizontal lift (i.e., level).

There is no "tube" in the drain plug, but it sure looks like there is something molded into the plastic pan.

The fill being where it is will still require the trans be pretty level for it to be accurate. Tilt it to the opposite side and it will take more fluid to fill before coming out of the fill hole.

Overall its probably a matter of ounces, but again, ZF warns of incorrect fluid level causing issues....how incorrect it never really says, but with an expensive transmission like this I would just make sure you get it level.

so the level applied to the pan was NOT a ZF recommendations? Ok i buy that. is it the best way to verify level sure. most of the I have driven a car up on flat rack, its level, used a slide in from side rack, we set it level. I sure don't want the vehicle hanging off like its going to fall. yes also my point was if tilted up by 1/8 inch isn't going to matter alot of volume of fluid... It is important more on this trans vs older tranny's
Below is the stock RAM trans pan.. .no tube. only the up spout for the filter into the pump housing path.



I think we have beaten this enough...
No tube on any RAM pickups,
follow approved procedures
keep vehicle level when checking the fluid
keep in operating temp for verifying fluid level.
all above steps can be performed at home, easily by home wrench wanting to save the $800 a dealer wants.

thanks jim has left the building...

 

[chrisbh17]

Yes I did see older BMW's with that tube, however this is a RAM forum. None of the pics i have seen online or the pan i pulled off my truck nor its aftermarket replacement, had this tube. So why are we posting such pictures is my point.


so the level applied to the pan was NOT a ZF recommendations? Ok i buy that. is it the best way to verify level sure. most of the I have driven a car up on flat rack, its level, used a slide in from side rack, we set it level. I sure don't want the vehicle hanging off like its going to fall. yes also my point was if tilted up by 1/8 inch isn't going to matter alot of volume of fluid... It is important more on this trans vs older tranny's
Below is the stock RAM trans pan.. .no tube. only the up spout for the filter into the pump housing path.

View attachment 189098

I think we have beaten this enough...
No tube on any RAM pickups,
follow approved procedures
keep vehicle level when checking the fluid
keep in operating temp for verifying fluid level.
all above steps can be performed at home, easily by home wrench wanting to save the $800 a dealer wants.

thanks jim has left the building...

The green instruction card earlier in this thread made it a point to call out making sure the trans pan is level.

The truck being on a level lift is not necessarily the same thing as the trans pan being level (rake and all). I have not paid attention under my truck enough to know how far off from level the trans pan is with the truck on the ground.

Honestly, with the clearance we have under our trucks, you could probably get it close to where you need to be without using a lift....I thought I read you need to bring the rear up about 2" but dont quote me on that.

 

[TexasDrew]

Yup, but Ram (Dodge) sure didn't make it easy to change the fluids; Oil or Transmission. Lifetime fluid is a marketing gimmick for people who Hate maintenance and Love cost estimates. Why not just make a maintenance friendly vehicle? For example, the Tucker (1947) was designed so that ONE man could pull the engine in 30 minutes, work on it outside the vehicle and then replace with an loaner engine if you wanted. The 30 minute swap was verified on even the first run production model so imagine how efficient and fast the swap would be now; don't **** off the big 3 unless you're going all the way/Tesla, Rivian, Thor, Toyota. Back on track, I'm changing my Transmission Fluid at 50,000 Miles along with the obligatory plastic pan and embedded filter even though I have the 8 year/125,000 mile extended Mopar Max Care Warranty.

 

[chrisbh17]

I honestly dont think its as hard as it sounds, you just need to get the details correct. Trans fluid expands when hot, pan should be level (or maybe just relatively level?), etc.

I think the only reason I would want to change the pan is to get the initial break in crap out of it. So at 60K miles or so do a full fluid and pan change, then maybe every 60K just change fluid? Its not an ICE, so there shouldnt really be too much "stuff" accumulating as it gets older.

 

[ListenOverSpeakin]

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[16RamHemi]

The green instruction card earlier in this thread made it a point to call out making sure the trans pan is level.

The truck being on a level lift is not necessarily the same thing as the trans pan being level (rake and all). I have not paid attention under my truck enough to know how far off from level the trans pan is with the truck on the ground.

Honestly, with the clearance we have under our trucks, you could probably get it close to where you need to be without using a lift....I thought I read you need to bring the rear up about 2" but dont quote me on that.

my truck is lifted 4" with a half inch rake. i had to lift my rear end around 10" to get pan level. That was paired with parking on a down hill slope. so in reality on level ground you need to raise it more than that.

 

[chrisbh17]

my truck is lifted 4" with a half inch rake. i had to lift my rear end around 10" to get pan level. That was paired with parking on a down hill slope. so in reality on level ground you need to raise it more than that.

And what dealer in their money-pinching mind is going to do that?

 

[ChevySlayer69]

There's no dipstick to keep moisture out of the ZF synthetic fluid I'll probably never change.