Another MDS Question..... Oh NO! Not Again?

[HEMIMANN]

I could sure hear the MDS V4 mode in my 2012 Ram 1500 with 5.7 Hemi........sounded like an Evinrude Outboard. That didn't bother me a lot, it only activated on very moderate level roads at constant speed. What bothered me is it kicking in and out so much......kind of like a hunting transmission in & out of converter lockup. Annoying. Couple that with no real clear fuel economy gain, and it's just a lab gimmick to increase EPA mandated CAFE mileage some tenths of a point.

Whether or not it causes or adds to the lifter and cam failures is not known. A member did report his lifter ticking went away when he left the MDS system activated. Knowing how the MDS works now, we can say there is something about the oil reaching the lifter bores that helps - likely draining down the bore to the lifter roller & needle bearings. That there says there is definitely inadequate lubrication of the lifter and cam.

 

[ram1500rsm]

You're welcome. Does anyone have any prof there is widespread, long term issues with MDS? Other than hearsay?

The hearsay started recently i believe. I was here almost 3 years ago when i bought my truck used, and i remember at the time some will say disabling was best for the lifter issue which is just the same BS as saying now disabling will cause issues lol. Enabled or disabled, if your lifters are about to let go nothing will prevent the inevitable. So for everybody looking into this. ENJOY what you have and don't be scared to disable the MDS crap. You're not buying less or more time for your engine disabling or enabling the system. Stop thinking that way and your relation with your vehicle will improve a lot more.

 

[mikeru]

You're welcome. Does anyone have any prof there is widespread, long term issues with MDS? Other than hearsay?

Do I have proof? Of course I don't. But for my purposes I don't need to provide proof. I've read plenty of articles written by people who have torn these engines down, claiming the cylinders affected by MDS were usually the cylinders suffering lifter issues. I've also read articles where people claim that damage isn't caused by the system. I really don't care as much about that as I care how the engine sounds when it's in MDS mode. Why do you feel the need to belittle those of us who prefer not to keep it enabled? It has no bearing on your life. And you sure as hell won't convince me to change my opinion on it. Live and let live. You'll probably enjoy life more.

 

[SniperDroid]

Moderators.... Feel Free to close and lock the thread. It has deteriorated into something I did not expect.

 

[Musky Mike]

The great debate goes on. I would say (I have no evidence) that from an engineering standpoint based on system operation, if there was an oiling anomaly with MDS off, they would not have given us the ability to deactivate MDS with the switch on the steering wheel. Now, real world results could be different as engineering (lab tests/pre-manufacture road tests) and real world conditions drift apart.

 

[CG2742]

This has been an issue since 2013 at least. It was much worse before 2016. But not bad enough or prominent enough to warrant redesign or recall.

 

[Musky Mike]

This has been an issue since 2013 at least. It was much worse before 2016. But not bad enough or prominent enough to warrant redesign or recall.

There will NEVER be a recall, too much money involved. It's better for the manufacture not to collect data (no evidence of a problem, outside of warranty claims) and deny there is a problem. They all do it, even most safety items there won't be a recall until the manufacture is forced by NHTSA. Redesign, maybe...but it won't be for the better of the consumer. All the costs and warranty claims will get input into a program, if end result is a loss for the manufacture, there won't be a redesign unless there is a "target of opportunely" and it's combined with another redesign because engineers were in that area. If I had to make an assumption (and it's only an assumption) the last lifter change was most likely from a contract that ended and a new one with new specifications was put out for bid. In this day and age, it's almost impossible to void a contract even with subpar performance and if a new contract wasn't in place and the current one terminated, production would stop. Lots of moving pieces outside of the mechanical parts (contracts) that we precede to have faults.

 

[tron67j]

Interesting comment that the MDS is not to increase MPG, HD units don't even list MPG on sticker so why spend money on something that can't be marketed.

I would imagine if the MDS was contributing to engine failure in large enough numbers there would have been a recall like the Hyundai/Kia one. With an average of 550k units sold a year it would seem that we would see more legal action by now if the issue merited such. Maybe the decision was that the tick (if this is one of the results) was acceptable since the engine would still survive for the expected life of the truck, I don't know. I have read about MDS for some time, but personally I don't notice sound change, engine lag/surge, or anything else with my truck or other Gen 4s I have rode in over the years. Not knocking others who do encounter it, maybe set ups are different and magnify it more, like mods to exhaust that weren't considered in the design.

 

[dls56]

Having it on doesn't bother me. But if you want it off then by all means shut it off.
My thing is, use a good oil and filter and change it around 5k miles. No tick, fingers crossed. Best wishes!

 

[ramffml]

Interesting comment that the MDS is not to increase MPG, HD units don't even list MPG on sticker so why spend money on something that can't be marketed.

I would imagine if the MDS was contributing to engine failure in large enough numbers there would have been a recall like the Hyundai/Kia one. With an average of 550k units sold a year it would seem that we would see more legal action by now if the issue merited such. Maybe the decision was that the tick (if this is one of the results) was acceptable since the engine would still survive for the expected life of the truck, I don't know. I have read about MDS for some time, but personally I don't notice sound change, engine lag/surge, or anything else with my truck or other Gen 4s I have rode in over the years. Not knocking others who do encounter it, maybe set ups are different and magnify it more, like mods to exhaust that weren't considered in the design.

FCA must sell more than 550k hemis per year. They sell more Ram 1500's than that in the USA alone, and like 90% of that is probably 5.7 hemi. Now add Canada Ram sales, then add in charger, challenger, jeep gc, 2500 6.4 etc etc. I'm sure they're well into a million per year.

 

[tron67j]

I just looked at the numbers again, in US it averages that, in Canada it is somewhere near 83,000 so for both countries about 633k. BUT, what is interesting is that many sites compare Ram sales to Ford F-150. What I now wonder is if the Ram numbers is only for 1500. Don't have time to research that today but goes to show statistics need to have sampling criteria fully understood before using results. I will try and delve further later. But, if the Ram volume is just 1500s and the engines are in 2500 and 3500 trucks, that would equate to an even lower percentage of truck engines possibly failing (wonder if there are statistics on this out there). Wow, didn't see this rabbit hole coming.

 

[Phillyrube]

Yeah, again. I read through as many MDS threads as I could stand, reading complaints about the noise and loss of power. More people seem interested in turning it off than anything else. I would like to know a little more about how it operates. I watched some videos on YouTube, and I understand the basic operation. But does it always turn off the same 4 cylinders? Seems that would put a lot more wear and tear on the other four always running cylinders and components....? Are the MDS lifters what cause the dreaded HEMI KNOCK? IF the MDS has been around for a while, how well does an engine so equipped hold up? I can understand the desire for more economical operation, but after all, IT'S A TRUCK! I use it primarily for towing a Travel Trailer, so economy is not what is foremost in my mind. In Tow/Haul mode it is off. Have there been any long term detrimental effects of using it in daily operation?

Sorry for the length, but I really couldn't find the answers to these questions.....

Maybe if we knew what oil you were using?

 

[Jeff Strader]

Okay, that's the kind of information I'm looking for, but you didn't say how you turned it off...!

I purchased a Diablo Tuner and that is one of the options the tuner offers. You can turn off the MDS and not have to touch anything else if you don't want to.