Any devices that could be tracking vehicle location? (For privacy reasons)

[lordzeus]

I just purchased a used 2019 Bighorn Ram 1500. I'm a privacy focused person, and frankly, I don't like the idea of how much tracking companies have on you just from your vehicle. I work in IT and I know how insane it is. Nowadays your car likely steals more data from you than your phone (as far as hardware goes).

I don't have lojack or anything like that installed from the dealer thankfully, but for the gearheads out there that know more about vehicles and what tech is inside them - is there anything I should try to have removed?

I would assume things like the OEM GPS system for navigation (which I'll never use) should be removed, but what about OnStar like systems?

Any ideas on things I could remove or similar would be great. Just trying to live in a world where old vehicles had this superpower but new vehicles have too much big brother baked into it.

Thanks!

 

[nlambert182]

Ram has UConnect, which functions similarly to OnStar. It can be used for tracking, but I think you're way over thinking it. Stellantis could care less about where you are. The only time that would be used is either a) your truck is stolen and local law enforcement contacts Stellantis to help find it via a stolen vehicle assistance request or b) when a court subpoena's the information from Stellantis. Aside from that, nobody is tracking you.

If you want to disable all of that I assume you can just unplug all of the GPS antenna connectors from the back of the radio, but it may disable a lot of features and could even cause some issues with the radio (don't know that for sure). Or... you can install a different radio, but on these trucks the radios that play nice with the canbus system in the truck have their own GPS, etc.. that still track you. Devil you know sort of deal.

 

[06 Dodge]

I would think unless your truck came from the factory with connected service there is no way for them to track you as they just don't put GPS into every truck made, btw you do know your cell phone is much easier to track then your truck and some like my old Android would listen to me talking about a limited subject, about 5 minutes later I used my phone I got ad's for what I had been talking about with family, its why I no longer use Android cell phones....

 

[crash68]

I would think unless your truck came from the factory with connected service there is no way for them to track you as they just don't put GPS into every truck made,

It's not the GPS that tracks you but the mobile phone connection for the emergency call button that's in most vehicles nowadays.
Most manufacturers are heading towards Over The Air software updating, will have cellular data connection. With the advent of semi autonomous driving the manufacturers will be using data from vehicles while they're driving down the road to further enhance autonomous responses.

 

[Skearns]

Sounds like a good way for hackers to exploit software security vulnerabilities and hit a "kill switch", of sorts, for an any vehicle (or many) they want.

 

[Grams]

I have a clear conscience and don’t do illegal stuff. Anyone who wants to find me will have no problem doing so, and I don’t care.

 

[crash68]

Sounds like a good way for hackers to exploit software security vulnerabilities and hit a "kill switch", of sorts, for an any vehicle (or many) they want.

Sorta like the infamous Jeep hacked about 10 years ago. Once the whitehat "hackers" were able to show proof of concept to FCA, they act helped "plug the holes" to prevent this type exploit.
All the automotive manufacturers were caught off guard in this regard and have taken strides to stop this

 

[Skearns]

Sorta like the infamous Jeep hacked about 10 years ago. Once the whitehat "hackers" were able to show proof of concept to FCA, they act helped "plug the holes" to prevent this type exploit.
All the automotive manufacturers were caught off guard in this regard and have taken strides to stop this

That’s good to hear. I hope they keep striding because the bad guys won’t stop trying.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Sounds like a good way for hackers to exploit software security vulnerabilities and hit a "kill switch", of sorts, for an any vehicle (or many) they want.

It is. Vehicles that allow OTA updates for the drivetrain (as opposed to just the infotainment or the like) are a vulnerability. Not like you specifically being targeted, that's like using a golden sledgehammer to kill a gnat. Someone with the skills and resources to gain control of the OEM's system is likely to be a state actor or large scale ransomware group. Imagine a ransomware attack that remaps the VE chart to all zeros in every Toyota Camry or Ford F-150 or whatever. Every model that installs the update will no longer start or run until it's fixed.

The US Congress is also moving forward with driver monitoring mandates where your car watches you drive and decides if you are "impaired" or not. Drunk or sleepy or whatever. What the car will do when it decides you are "impaired" is not legislated yet, they only mandated the feasibility study. Look up the "Stay Aware For Everyone Act of 2021”

 

[BenchTest]

It is. Vehicles that allow OTA updates for the drivetrain (as opposed to just the infotainment or the like) are a vulnerability. Not like you specifically being targeted, that's like using a golden sledgehammer to kill a gnat. Someone with the skills and resources to gain control of the OEM's system is likely to be a state actor or large scale ransomware group. Imagine a ransomware attack that remaps the VE chart to all zeros in every Toyota Camry or Ford F-150 or whatever. Every model that installs the update will no longer start or run until it's fixed.

The US Congress is also moving forward with driver monitoring mandates where your car watches you drive and decides if you are "impaired" or not. Drunk or sleepy or whatever. What the car will do when it decides you are "impaired" is not legislated yet, they only mandated the feasibility study. Look up the "Stay Aware For Everyone Act of 2021”

I was reading an article about this not too long ago. Seems Ford is really "pioneering" this software and pushing for it to be the new standard in automobiles. Nanny system that watches for head nods, yawns, darting eyes, etc (camera facing inboard), uses an algorithm and decides whether it's going to come up on your display and request that you take a break, sound an audible tone to get your attention and ask you to select a reply on the display, or have the ability to tattle on you as a "suspected impaired driver". Some such software also has the ability to "limp mode" your vehicle based on what it determines your "malfunction" is (impaired or tired) and even tattle on you to local law enforcement. I don't know all the inner workings (I'm sure that's highly guarded info at this point), but it'll become required equipment in the near future, I'm sure of it.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I was reading an article about this not too long ago. Seems Ford is really "pioneering" this software and pushing for it to be the new standard in automobiles. Nanny system that watches for head nods, yawns, darting eyes, etc (camera facing inboard), uses an algorithm and decides whether it's going to come up on your display and request that you take a break, sound an audible tone to get your attention and ask you to select a reply on the display, or have the ability to tattle on you as a "suspected impaired driver". Some such software also has the ability to "limp mode" your vehicle based on what it determines your "malfunction" is (impaired or tired) and even tattle on you to local law enforcement. I don't know all the inner workings (I'm sure that's highly guarded info at this point), but it'll become required equipment in the near future, I'm sure of it.

Ford has it built into the A pillar to watch you, supposedly so if you're using the self driving feature it knows you're still watching the road (so WTF is the point of self driving if I have to pay attention anyway?)

While we don't know exactly what Congress will mandate at the end of the study, all of those things are possibilities.

RAM has it as well if your truck will display the little coffee cup and tell you that you are drowsy. I won't buy a new Power Wagon, as to get the 360 cameras it's bundled with that bs.

 

[nlambert182]

My 2021 Armada monitors your eyes now. If we're on the interstate and I'm focused on the road and not moving my eyes around, or if it thinks I am looking away from the road for too long a warning indicator pops up in the cluster asking me if I need to pull over and take a break. I have to hit a button on the steering wheel to dismiss the warning.

 

[turkeybird56]

I just purchased a used 2019 Bighorn Ram 1500. I'm a privacy focused person, and frankly, I don't like the idea of how much tracking companies have on you just from your vehicle. I work in IT and I know how insane it is. Nowadays your car likely steals more data from you than your phone (as far as hardware goes).

I don't have lojack or anything like that installed from the dealer thankfully, but for the gearheads out there that know more about vehicles and what tech is inside them - is there anything I should try to have removed?

I would assume things like the OEM GPS system for navigation (which I'll never use) should be removed, but what about OnStar like systems?

Any ideas on things I could remove or similar would be great. Just trying to live in a world where old vehicles had this superpower but new vehicles have too much big brother baked into it.

Thanks!

Depending upon where you purchased vehicle, or whom, there could be a 3rd party tracker wired into vehicle under dash without you even knowing, that is done more by 3rd party vendors than dealerships.

 

[jawzs2]

^^^^^this^^^^

Some finance companies will require a tracker, in case the loan is in default, they know where to go to repo the vehicle. Most states require the buyers' consent, disclosed when the paperwork is signed. Double-check your paperwork, and if installed, read the fine print regarding consequences of removal.

 

[zrock]

You work for a IT company and your worried about the tracking on a veh? Your phone shares more information about you than your truck ever will and their is no way on your phone you can ever shut it all off. Go have a conversation with someone about something you have never talked about before and then look at all the adds on the websites and FB and see what pops up.. 100% what you were just talking about will be in their..

I know in newer veh manufacturers are looking at geofencing so they know when the veh hits the dealer for repairs and how long its their to make the dealers more accountable.

 

[Jefferson Davis]

Plenty of stories of system manufacturers selling data on you and your habits to, for example, insurance companies. Saying "I don't do anything illegal so I don't have anything to worry about" isn't the point. Tech in vehicles isn't the point. The point is, your driving, the routes you take, the times you drive, number of passengers and everything in between is or will be cataloged by someone you don't know. It's in every agreement you "OK" when you get a new vehicle. It's not specifically spelled out that way, but it's there.

I rented a Camry a while back and it had driver assist, nice feature. It wouldn't let you take your hands off the wheel for very long which I can understand. I did not see a camera, it only seemed to recognize I had the wheel when I held the wheel a certain way. I don't think anyone has a problem with that kind of thing, that's not surveillance, it's technology. It's when you  are being surveilled, and that information is kept by someone and/or sold on the market.

The gub'ment has all your cell data stored for possible use later. You don't think they will or already have your driving data? Your TV watches you, Fakebook listens to you, Alexa hears you, your credit cards are scanned when you walk into and around stores noting what you are near and for how long. Then magically, something you talked about with you wife sitting outside at a restaurant shows up in your feed or video streaming at home.

Tech is wonderful, I think everyone generally loves having it. But again, tech shouldn't morph into surveillance. It has, because the powers that be make a ton of money from the global corporatist order that doles it out, and gub'ment that likes having tabs on anyone that might threaten their status quo. Not a rant, I'm just not naive.

 

[Docwagon1776]

\

The gub'ment has all your cell data stored for possible use later. You don't think they will or already have your driving data? Your TV watches you, Fakebook listens to you, Alexa hears you, your credit cards are scanned when you walk into and around stores noting what you are near and for how long. Then magically, something you talked about with you wife sitting outside at a restaurant shows up in your feed or video streaming at home.

Tech is wonderful, I think everyone generally loves having it. But again, tech shouldn't morph into surveillance. It has, because the powers that be make a ton of money from the global corporatist order that doles it out, and gub'ment that likes having tabs on anyone that might threaten their status quo. Not a rant, I'm just not naive.

Cell phone data is stored by the cell companies and for a limited time. The government has access to that data via court process (subpoena or warrants), and we do store some of it we get from that, but it's wildly inaccurate to say any level of government stores it all. They (the phone companies) are actually storing less data for shorter periods of time these days because the value of the data has gone down vs the cost of storing it. Like we used to be able to do 'geofence warrants' and see what all phones were in a given area at a given time, then start looking for patterns that matched a suspect's movements. That's pretty much gone away with most carriers now, though we can still get location data for a specific subscriber within certain time frames. They specifically don't store the information for very long because if they do it's subject to subpoena, and compliance costs money as they have employees going through the data to provide it to us. (As well as the cost of storage, which is an ever growing part of our budget as well)

The store scanning your cards as you walk around is also not a thing. They'd be able to identify a lot more thieves if it were, as well as more serious crimes that take place. I've worked a lot of murders in commercial spaces, nobody has ever had the ability to track a card in someone's pocket. What many do have is the ability to tie a credit card *use* to surveillance video. Target, for decades, has been able to see any use of any card on any store and then track the user around the store with cameras. Other stores have caught up over the years, but Target has historically been ahead of the curve. Technology has gotten really good at stitching the camera views together vs an employee manually tracking them and switching views as needed. Even Target's systems won't be able to see them in other stores based on video from this store, yet, but I bet it's coming as AI facial recognition gets better. It's still pretty terrible right now, but not as terrible as it was a few years ago....

 

[turkeybird56]

Another good thing is carry yer cards in a signal blocker wallet/case or carry a signal blocker card in yer wallet.

Faraday cases when in big stores for yer vehicle fob a good idea also.

 

[06 Dodge]

Another good thing is carry yer cards in a signal blocker wallet/case or carry a signal blocker card in yer wallet.

Faraday cases when in big stores for yer vehicle fob a good idea also.

Agree, I purchased a wallet made with an RFID block so as to help protect my cards

 

[Docwagon1776]

Agree, I purchased a wallet made with an RFID block so as to help protect my cards

That's 100% a marketing gimmick. There are zero confirmed cases of RFID scanning of cards for fraud/criminal purposes. One, the distance NFC chips can can be scanned at is very very close, like a few mm if in your wallet and a few cm if open air. Two, the information is encrypted and is useless without the processing network "talking" to the chip as you read it. The encryption also resets every transaction, each time you tap to pay it's a one time code.

I mean, if you like the wallet otherwise, NBD, but it's not a feature that actually does anything or is worth paying extra for.