Bad Luck Truck

[Nick14]

I would certainly contact a lawyer. Seems a couple of felonies have been committed, forgery & excepting stolen property. I would not take that truck back until they make you very happy. You are the victim. Nick

 

[HDGoose]

Do not do anything with out documentation. A certified letter describing who what where why.

Contact your lender if you have one and let them know what's going on. They may assist.

Get advice from a lawyer. You will get a deal on another truck, but not a free truck.

 

[tron67j]

You have read "get an attorney" enough to get the idea. You should consult with a criminal attorney at a larger firm where you should get the right person to assist. The dealer could have committed a crime, as the husband could have, the forging of a document transferring ownership of that property could be a felony. You should not communicate with the dealership any more, you need the attorney to be the contact person. You could have stolen property in your possession depending on circumstances and laws of state, and a notice demanding you produce the vehicle could be on its way. I would remove all personal effects from the vehicle, a sheriff and a tow truck could appear at any moment, and you could possibly be denied access to the interior. Good luck on a crummy situation.

 

[Redd]

You have read "get an attorney" enough to get the idea. You should consult with a criminal attorney at a larger firm where you should get the right person to assist. The dealer could have committed a crime, as the husband could have, the forging of a document transferring ownership of that property could be a felony. You should not communicate with the dealership any more, you need the attorney to be the contact person. You could have stolen property in your possession depending on circumstances and laws of state, and a notice demanding you produce the vehicle could be on its way. I would remove all personal effects from the vehicle, a sheriff and a tow truck could appear at any moment, and you could possibly be denied access to the interior. Good luck on a crummy situation.

I appreciate all the help and input you have all put in.
Ok- here are some answers and updates. First, I won't say the name of the dealership or location because I want to give them the chance to make it right.
I talked to a lawyer who basically told me the same thing that a few of my other phone calls to other business owners, dealers, and such. What the lawyer says is: don't give them the truck until you're happy with their offer. Yes, they are in big trouble and you have the upper hand. Something I should share that I glazed over previously was the time line. I found out about this two days ago, the title hold happened shortly after the 16th. Depending when the state agency notified the dealership, they might have known for 2-3 weeks. So that whole time, they (dealership or husband or both) were trying to get the soon-to-be ex-wife to sign off on some paper work. I asked the dealer on the phone how long they had known and he said he was put onto this job a week prior. So if I had not found out about this on my own investigating, would they still be trying to sweep it under the rug?? Yet, I digress... back to the lawyer. He did say "without looking at the paperwork" that they may have legal discourse to take the truck away, BUT it's more likely the only legal warrant here would be between the wife and husband. However, he did say that letting the dealership worry about my truck would be in my favor (like I park the truck elsewhere until I'm ready). I should also mention that I did not have a trade in with this purchase, but money down.
I do like the idea of talking with the bank, but I kind of want to hear what the dealership offers tomorrow before asking for help. I think the bank would be a move I couldn't turn back from once they realize what's going on.
I will read over the paperwork and be ready to hear the dealership's plan/offer. Some people said the dealer will downplay the severity of the infraction to offer me less compensation, but the same could be said about the lawyer and getting as much as he can make off of them. So I'll stick to the plan of just listening to both right now. But don't you worry, folks (especially those with popcorn). I'll post the offers they give on this thread for the approval of my brain trust! Thanks again and stay tuned.

 

[16Ram4x4]

Also the state should be involved with this as fraud and forgery plus deception is involved with a state licensed dealership that handles legal documents that transfer ownership of motor vehicles.
Plus your lien holder has every legal right to know what is going on as they have a vested interest in this motor vehicle.
Get them involved also as this dealership has opened a whole big bag of legal **** that can cost them there business license and a state investigation of there questionable business practices.
But do no return the truck until they make the situation whole in all legal aspects with it or a replacement deal that makes all of this ******** right

 

[Redd]

Welp, no call from the dealership so I texted the guy who was the manager handling my situation at 1. He texted an hour later and says he had a family emergency and gave me the title manager's extension (who also wasn't at work that day) so I asked for someone else which led to a dead end. I called the dealership and asked for his boss, left a message with the operator, and no call back. So I called back at 3:45 and asked again and the operator said "he says it's a title issue and you should talk to that department." They forward me to a sweet girl whose first week on the job. I asked her to kindly forward me to the GM's voice-mail where I left a message with the reckoning of a hurricane. If they don't call first thing tomorrow morning, I'll be calling to let them know the number of my lawyer to get in contact with me.

 

[Flip-er]

WOW
This sucks
Sorry for all the trouble

 

[brny67]

Sub'd

 

[16Ram4x4]

In my opinion I would get your lien holder (bank or credit union) involved right now as you have possibly or have already made your first loan payment to them.
They have a vested interest in that truck as its vin number and description is on the paperwork for that loan they have extended to you in good faith. They will help get the situation resolved as they will withhold or revoke the money already transferred to that dealership. This they will hold that money until the dealership makes the situation whole for you and them

 

[Rado]

WOW I find it amazing how everybody was gone when you called :O Sounds klike a lot of BS to me :O
Glad you have a lawyer involved.
I would assume they will make it right
BUT when you talk with them let them know you want all your legal fee's paid by them !!!
Any out of pocket money from you to be reimbursed with this crap show !
The idea of parking you truck elsewhere is a great idea as a repo truck will not be able to find it and tow it to them !!!
I would assume if they are a good company they will get it fixed fast !
Keep you lawyer in the loop and let the dealership know you have a lawyer !
Good luck hope it gets settled soon and you get a newer truck

 

[HAL9001]

We don't know all the details of this case but from what I can tell, the dealer is as much as a victim, if not more, than the purchaser. Divorces can be a nasty business, I speak from experience, and we all know that. Either party in a contested divorce can and often acts badly. There's a lot going on in a bad divorce involving deep emotions, fear, incredible stress, and inevitable wealth loss. This often causes people to act irrationally, badly, and sometimes even unlawfully.

The bad actor here was the husband, not the dealer. During a divorce in most states, the couple's joint assets are frozen. Neither party is usually allowed to sell or transfer joint assets until the divorce is settled. The husband, by forging his wife's signature, committed three illegal acts. He violated the divorce decree, he committed forgery, and he willfully and knowingly sold a vehicle that did not fully belong to him. By law, she co-owned the truck, he had no right to sell it without her written consent.

A dealership has to deal with all kinds of people and situations when buying and selling thousands of vehicles. They were presented with a signed vehicle title with both party's signatures present. How were they supposed to know the wife's signature was a forgery? Think about it, what are they supposed to do, hire an investigator or a law firm to check the legitimacy of each and every vehicle title they receive? That's simply not practical. If they had to do this, they would have to pass on the cost to their customers to stay in business. It would be like when you purchase a house, there would need to be a thorough title search. That would cost the customer significantly more money and delay all vehicle sales by weeks. Dealers know from experience that situations like this will certainly occur, but they have no choice but to try and handle them on a case-by-case basis and hope for the best in day-to-day transactions.

They sold the truck to the purchaser believing they had clear title. No dealership in their right mind would knowingly accept or sell a vehicle with a contested title. That's just asking for big trouble that no dealership needs. So, like the buyer, they were victimized by the illegal acts of the original seller. Unlike the buyer however, they have to try and make it right. This is probably going to cost them significantly whereas the buyer will most likely be duly compensated in the end whatever happens. He'll either ultimately get to keep the truck or the dealership will have to compensate him for his inconvenience in some other manner to his satisfaction. The dealer is actually the primary victim here. The buyer, with the upper hand, can in fact act to make things miserable for the dealer by taking advantage of the situation if he so chooses. The dealer will have to somehow find a way to both satisfy the buyer while simultaneously trying to resolve the illegal actions of the seller. If it were me, I would much rather prefer to be the buyer than the dealer here.

So, let's not lose sight of who the victims of the husband's crimes are and who the bad guy really is. The buyer is a victim of this crime, has been inconvenienced, and deserves to either keep the truck or be duly compensated. But he needs to fairly work with the dealer who is also a victim of this crime. If he plays hardball, holds onto the truck, and goes for an over-the-top settlement, he may eventually run into his own legal issues. He won't be able to gain legal title to the truck nor get it registered. He won't be able to sell it or even drive it. This due to state laws which he cannot fight. At some point, he'll definitely need to settle with the dealer. If he takes it to court to go after greater compensation, it's likely he'll lose any modest gains, if any, to the cost of retaining a lawyer as the court will likely also recognize the dealer as a victim unless he can clearly prove gross negligence on the dealer's part which will be very hard to do.

This is a bad and unfortunate situation brought on by the illegal acts of the husband. Both victims of this crime, the buyer and the dealer need to fairly work out a settlement and not make matters worse for each other, and then move on.

 

[LeeD]

Well it sounds like the dealership is giving you the run around instead of stepping up and dealing with the issue.
Since you've already contacted an attorney that's great.
One other tact you might want to think about is contacting one of your local TV stations investigating reporters. If the dealership gets a call from a reporter it might really build a fire under them to resolve this before it possibly gets on the news.

It worked for my father in law when the insurance company where he had a whole life policy said they couldn't find his paperwork when agents changed. Conveniently the agents changed when he wanted to cash it in. One call from the stations investigative reporter and all of the paperwork magically reappeared.

 

[ronheater70]

Welp, no call from the dealership so I texted the guy who was the manager handling my situation at 1. He texted an hour later and says he had a family emergency and gave me the title manager's extension (who also wasn't at work that day) so I asked for someone else which led to a dead end. I called the dealership and asked for his boss, left a message with the operator, and no call back. So I called back at 3:45 and asked again and the operator said "he says it's a title issue and you should talk to that department." They forward me to a sweet girl whose first week on the job. I asked her to kindly forward me to the GM's voice-mail where I left a message with the reckoning of a hurricane. If they don't call first thing tomorrow morning, I'll be calling to let them know the number of my lawyer to get in contact with me.

I wouldn't be calling anyone I would be down there for a face to face come to jesus meeting.. With it known that if someone isn't working on a solution or giving you answers everyone in that dealership who is potential customer would be knowing whats going on. I agree the dealer is a potential victim in this as well, but they still ned to right a wrong. How they do it on their end, whether they go after the husband or what is up to them but you are left with a vehicle you paid for that cannot be registered. Thats a bog loss you need taken care of right away.

 

[HAL9001]

Here is my recommendation and exactly what I would do in this situation. First and foremost, this is a business transaction, do not act emotionally, do not threaten the dealer in any way, and avoid any direct heated confrontation. Anything you do emotionally could hurt you in the end. You have the upper hand here, all you need to do is execute it properly. It's fine to let them know that you're definitely not happy, just don't do anything in anger that might compromise your situation. This is a common mistake.

It's good that you contacted a lawyer, but a lawyer, just like any businessman you deal with, does not always act in your best interest unless you thoroughly pay them to. They will either be looking to make money for themselves from the situation or if they figure it's not worth their time, may not even bother to give you any decent advice. Just be aware of that. I've dealt with many lawyers and this is always the case. If you want a lawyer's help, be prepared to pay them a significant sum of money. In this case, it simply may not be worth it. You'll need to decide that for yourself.

What you should do for yourself right now is create a legal paper trail. When you verbally confront the dealer on the phone or in person, you have no legal evidence of what transpired. You can record the conversations, but this might not be legal. Additionally, when you confront someone verbally, you can easily make key mistakes that can hurt your case. What you should do immediately is to carefully type up everything that has occurred to the best of your knowledge in a document along with a list of your demands. Then go to the post office and mail it certified mail, signature required, to whoever is the owner or head manager of the dealership. Include a copy of all the paperwork involved. This is something that legally establishes the situation at a specific point in time and contains a written list of your demands. This is something a judge would want to see in a court case if it ever goes that far. More importantly for right now, the dealerships know that receiving such a written, certified letter is a prelude to legal action and will take it very seriously, far more seriously than anything you do verbally. In my experience, this expedites settlements significantly. If you think it's worth it, pay your lawyer $200 or whatever they charge for an hour's worth of work to review your demands.

You can decide what your demands are, but please be fair, this will most likely work far better for you than anything over the top. I would first demand that the dealership work immediately and diligently to settle the issue with the seller and gain clear title. You can set a deadline for this. I would set it a week before the temporary registration expires. If it's not settled by then, I would demand unlimited use of another vehicle of your choosing at no cost to you. You could then give them a few more weeks to settle with the seller, or demand that they fully refund you for every penny you spent on the sales transaction and then offer you a similar vehicle at an excellent deal to your satisfaction. All of this is fair and should be doable. You're entitled to any compensation you feel is fair due to the significant inconvenience this has caused you.

Just keep in mind that the dealer is not really the bad guy here and try to work together with them rather than against them if you want this over with quickly. If they give you a hard time then of course you can go after them, but I'm guessing they'll want to settle this to your satisfaction as soon as possible.

 

[Redd]

.

A dealership has to deal with all kinds of people and situations when buying and selling thousands of vehicles. They were presented with a signed vehicle title with both party's signatures present. How were they supposed to know the wife's signature was a forgery? Think about it, what are they supposed to do, hire an investigator or a law firm to check the legitimacy of each and every vehicle title they receive? That's simply not practical. If they had to do this, they would have to pass on the cost to their customers to stay in business. It would be like when you purchase a house, there would need to be a thorough title search. That would cost the customer significantly more money and delay all vehicle sales by weeks. Dealers know from experience that situations like this will certainly occur, but they have no choice but to try and handle them on a case-by-case basis and hope for the best in day-to-day transactions.
on.

No doubt the dealer is a victim here also, I won't contest that. The husband is the source of all this trouble. But when we sold our truck before getting this one, my wife and I both had to be present (since both our names are on the title). I'm not saying an investigator was the missing link here, but a simple call to the wife would of taken one minute on their part. But what makes me think the dealership is increasingly becoming at fault are their handling of the situation. They knew of this for at least a week, possibly up to two, without contacting me, which at the time I'm driving this vehicle as if nothing is wrong. If an accident would of occurred during this time, then where would that of left us? I also found out about his on my own investigating. Furthermore, they continue to leave me in the dark and causing my plans to change. I'm in the middle of elk season without a truck and currently staying at home without a vehicle, per say. Although I agree that the husband will be feeling the largest of legal pains, I do believe there were some skipped checks that would of saved both the dealer and my family the trouble we're experiencing. Which leads me back to the question, "what is this dealership going to do for me?" As of right now, absolutely nothing. I'm anxiously awaiting a phone call this morning....

 

[ronheater70]

No doubt the dealer is a victim here also, I won't contest that. The husband is the source of all this trouble. But when we sold our truck before getting this one, my wife and I both had to be present (since both our names are on the title). I'm not saying an investigator was the missing link here, but a simple call to the wife would of taken one minute on their part. But what makes me think the dealership is increasingly becoming at fault are their handling of the situation. They knew of this for at least a week, possibly up to two, without contacting me, which at the time I'm driving this vehicle as if nothing is wrong. If an accident would of occurred during this time, then where would that of left us? I also found out about his on my own investigating. Furthermore, they continue to leave me in the dark and causing my plans to change. I'm in the middle of elk season without a truck and currently staying at home without a vehicle, per say. Although I agree that the husband will be feeling the largest of legal pains, I do believe there were some skipped checks that would of saved both the dealer and my family the trouble we're experiencing. Which leads me back to the question, "what is this dealership going to do for me?" As of right now, absolutely nothing. I'm anxiously awaiting a phone call this morning....

Why are you awaiting a phone call? How far away is the dealership? If its within 3 hours Id be driving over there and talking to someone important. If its within 45 minutes Id drive over there every day until I got someone who can give me answers.

 

[ExpressRules]

At this point visiting the dealer in an angry mood is not the best direction. Make an appointment with dealer and insist someone with decision making power will be there. The dealer's responsibility in this matter is to make you whole from a monetary status, but unless you have proof they knowingly did the sale with dirty hands they owe you no more then that.

With that in mind, I'm betting they will sweeten any agreement because it is in their best interest to do so. The vehicle is not yours at this point, but if negotiations go right you will come out better than you started with the original purchase>

 

[RamInfo]

The OP should carefully re-read posts #31 and #34 and follow that advice. Those are the two best and most useful posts thus far in the thread and show what is likely the best path to a timely and satisfactory resolution. Face-to-face conflicts or contacting the media will make the OP seem like the unreasonable party, and the fastest and most fair resolutions usually don’t go to a party who pours gas on the fire without first giving a chance to a reasonable resolution. Once the other parties have clearly been documented as being unreasonable or unresponsive, then it’s time to reach for the big guns.

The dealer is in a pickle here, is as much a victim as the OP (we don’t know if title signatures are required to be notarized in the state of transaction), and yes- his inattention to detail contributed to the mess. But figuratively speaking, he’s the hand holding the candle that’s burning at both ends and dumping gas on the situation before he gets a chance to juggle the situation and put out the flames really limits his ability to do so.

#31 & #34...

best,
DG

 

[Redd]

Hello all! Again, I want to thank you all for helping and advising.
Yes- the dealership is over 3 hours away.
The only update I have is I called three more times today and left some messages with the manager of the title department and the used car department manager. I doubt the gm came in on a Saturday. I'll most likely wait until Monday before I have a phone call with the bank and forward all other calls to my attorneys (yes, two, who are husband and wife).

 

[Redd]

Here is my recommendation and exactly what I would do in this situation. First and foremost, this is a business transaction, do not act emotionally, do not threaten the dealer in any way, and avoid any direct heated confrontation. Anything you do emotionally could hurt you in the end. You have the upper hand here, all you need to do is execute it properly. It's fine to let them know that you're definitely not happy, just don't do anything in anger that might compromise your situation. This is a common mistake.

It's good that you contacted a lawyer, but a lawyer, just like any businessman you deal with, does not always act in your best interest unless you thoroughly pay them to. They will either be looking to make money for themselves from the situation or if they figure it's not worth their time, may not even bother to give you any decent advice. Just be aware of that. I've dealt with many lawyers and this is always the case. If you want a lawyer's help, be prepared to pay them a significant sum of money. In this case, it simply may not be worth it. You'll need to decide that for yourself.

What you should do for yourself right now is create a legal paper trail. When you verbally confront the dealer on the phone or in person, you have no legal evidence of what transpired. You can record the conversations, but this might not be legal. Additionally, when you confront someone verbally, you can easily make key mistakes that can hurt your case. What you should do immediately is to carefully type up everything that has occurred to the best of your knowledge in a document along with a list of your demands. Then go to the post office and mail it certified mail, signature required, to whoever is the owner or head manager of the dealership. Include a copy of all the paperwork involved. This is something that legally establishes the situation at a specific point in time and contains a written list of your demands. This is something a judge would want to see in a court case if it ever goes that far. More importantly for right now, the dealerships know that receiving such a written, certified letter is a prelude to legal action and will take it very seriously, far more seriously than anything you do verbally. In my experience, this expedites settlements significantly. If you think it's worth it, pay your lawyer $200 or whatever they charge for an hour's worth of work to review your demands.

You can decide what your demands are, but please be fair, this will most likely work far better for you than anything over the top. I would first demand that the dealership work immediately and diligently to settle the issue with the seller and gain clear title. You can set a deadline for this. I would set it a week before the temporary registration expires. If it's not settled by then, I would demand unlimited use of another vehicle of your choosing at no cost to you. You could then give them a few more weeks to settle with the seller, or demand that they fully refund you for every penny you spent on the sales transaction and then offer you a similar vehicle at an excellent deal to your satisfaction. All of this is fair and should be doable. You're entitled to any compensation you feel is fair due to the significant inconvenience this has caused you.

Just keep in mind that the dealer is not really the bad guy here and try to work together with them rather than against them if you want this over with quickly. If they give you a hard time then of course you can go after them, but I'm guessing they'll want to settle this to your satisfaction as soon as possible.

Hal9001- you are giving some good advice. I appreciate the help.