Blackstone - used oil analysis

[Burla]

Here's the latest, another 5k OCI. Zero change in strategy. Iron dropped. I will be very curious to see if my next winter oil change has higher iron again, as I am sticking to my thought that my prior sample was the first sample that had cold weather starts on it.

pretty amazing wear numbers, I can even guess why iron was so high on that run. Maybe a lab mistake? It happens once in a long while. Those reports are so uniform, that out liar is more likely a mistake imo, especially since is cam down. Do you collect it after the flow starts? weird, I would worry at all, looks great.

 

[Burn2k12Ram]

Got vacuum pump in today(Black-Stone labs) to try and sample out of dip stick. Followed directions in video where it showed to get same length of tubing as dip stick down there. Got as far as 6 inches short. That last 6 inches absolutely would not budge no matter how I tried to maneuver the tubing. AS if that last 6 inches will not allow that 1/4" tubing. Anyone else have that issue?

 

[Burla]

It does look like the dip stick tube has a curve, maybe just an issue with that hose, since you already bought that try and get a thinner hose. I'm sure that would work on rfe, so it has some use. When it comes time to drop rfe for fluid, a little pump like that can help.

 

[Boss_Ram_UK]

Hello from the UK, have been reading this forum for years but rarely post.
I did an oil change on my 2014 1500 5.7 a couple of weeks back and found metal fragments in the container I used to drain the oil, so I have had a UOA carried out, please see figures below;

This oil is Redline 5W30 and filter was a Wix XP. This is the first time I have used 5W30, last oil was Redline 5W20, prior to that I am unsure as I have only owned the truck for a few years.
Mileage is 47k, and this oil has covered just under 5k miles.

How much of a concern is the copper level?
Thanks.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Cu definitely high, as the lab noted.

Of more concern are "metal fragments" in oil drain container. I presume the container was free of fragments prior to draining.

If you have any fragments still in the container, send to a metal spectrographic lab to identify. If copper, it appears you have a defective journal bearing somewhere in the engine. Do this as soon as possible. Would also recommend switching to finer filtration oil filter - Royal Purple or Fram Ultra.

If you have another vehicle, don't use the truck, or use as little as possible. If confirmed a bearing is coming apart, you might be able to get away with only a bottom end bearing overhaul.

Have not heard of a Hemi engine with bad journal bearings before. Best of luck!

 

[ramffml]

My copper levels were high at my first run of redline which was also the first UOA that I did. It was 94, then dropped to 62, then 49, and lastly went up to 50. Apparently copper usually goes up on the first usage of Redline but comes back down again like I saw with my 4 reports.

So the copper level by itself might not be of concern, but yes combined with the fragments that would make me nervous.

 

[HEMIMANN]

My copper levels were high at my first run of redline which was also the first UOA that I did. It was 94, then dropped to 62, then 49, and lastly went up to 50. Apparently copper usually goes up on the first usage of Redline but comes back down again like I saw with my 4 reports.

So the copper level by itself might not be of concern, but yes combined with the fragments that would make me nervous.

Do you think maybe the high zinc additive of Red Line initially eats a bit at the journal bearings? Doesn't explain the metal fragments, of course, just curious that this phenomena is repeated.

fyi - my first run of Red Line begun @ 36k mile mark didn't show elevated copper. Model year is 2017. Did they change journal bearing recipes? Either way, nonferrous metals are attacked faster by zinc, so it wouldn't matter what soft bearing metals used - aluminum, copper, etc., except for lead. Don't know if lead is banned from journals?

 

[Burla]

Hello from the UK, have been reading this forum for years but rarely post.
I did an oil change on my 2014 1500 5.7 a couple of weeks back and found metal fragments in the container I used to drain the oil, so I have had a UOA carried out, please see figures below;

This oil is Redline 5W30 and filter was a Wix XP. This is the first time I have used 5W30, last oil was Redline 5W20, prior to that I am unsure as I have only owned the truck for a few years.
Mileage is 47k, and this oil has covered just under 5k miles.

How much of a concern is the copper level?
Thanks.

View attachment 498802

how many miles on the oil?

I'm with HM, the real issue is flakes in the oil. Take a gander at page 93 of oil filter thread on oil filter choice. I also might be inclined to make a change unless there was a reason you are running redline such as hemi tick? My copper was in the 180's first page this thread, but I had hemi tick and a young engine, so I have no worry about it. If you didnt have any tick, maybe try PUP 0w40 or 5w30 known for it's low wear numbers and see what it does.

 

[Boss_Ram_UK]

Thanks for your replies guys. Interesting that copper content can increase with Redline initially.
The oil removed covered just under 5k miles, usually I have a garage change the oil during its annual test (MOT in UK) so I wouldn't be aware of any particulate found previously. The container was new prior to use.
At the moment the plan is to run on the new oil (redline 5w30) for around 2k miles and then change again and check for particulate and most likely another UOA.
I switched to Redline to try and avoid any potential Hemi tick in the future, and also to try and quieten the valvetrain, its louder since installing ARH long tubes (replaced due to snapped manifold studs).
I'll have to see if there is a supplier here for PUP in the UK, I don't recall seeing it, are there any other good options?
Can also look at ditching the WIX for the next change. Thanks.

 

[Burla]

Most dexos 0w40's will suffice, don't let the 40 part scare you they run thinner then that redline you have in there now. Do you amazon? Good place to buy pup. Running a few uo'as will help you nail down a strategy, it might be the engine is wearing a little heavy and oil wont matter, then go back to redline. Copper about 1/2 of what you have is more average, see the thread for many examples. Good news is iron is good. Do a few uoa's is a great plan imo.

 

[ramffml]

Do you think maybe the high zinc additive of Red Line initially eats a bit at the journal bearings? Doesn't explain the metal fragments, of course, just curious that this phenomena is repeated.

fyi - my first run of Red Line begun @ 36k mile mark didn't show elevated copper. Model year is 2017. Did they change journal bearing recipes? Either way, nonferrous metals are attacked faster by zinc, so it wouldn't matter what soft bearing metals used - aluminum, copper, etc., except for lead. Don't know if lead is banned from journals?

I'm not qualified to answer that I just know that that is the information I picked up in this thread/forum.

 

[Travis8352]

Hello from the UK, have been reading this forum for years but rarely post.
I did an oil change on my 2014 1500 5.7 a couple of weeks back and found metal fragments in the container I used to drain the oil, so I have had a UOA carried out, please see figures below;

This oil is Redline 5W30 and filter was a Wix XP. This is the first time I have used 5W30, last oil was Redline 5W20, prior to that I am unsure as I have only owned the truck for a few years.
Mileage is 47k, and this oil has covered just under 5k miles.

How much of a concern is the copper level?
Thanks.

View attachment 498802

Are you sure it is metal fragments? Is it possible its gritty carbon deposits cleaned away by redline?

 

[Boss_Ram_UK]

Here is an image of what i was left with in the oil catch container. Guessing it is whatever was sitting in the sump.
The particles were silver in colour when viewed on the end of finger.
A colleague suggested that it could possibly be the work hardening of the cam or lifters, perhaps the iron level will increase in the next UOA?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Here is an image of what i was left with in the oil catch container. Guessing it is whatever was sitting in the sump.
The particles were silver in colour when viewed on the end of finger.
A colleague suggested that it could possibly be the work hardening of the cam or lifters, perhaps the iron level will increase in the next UOA?
View attachment 498830

Could this be the infamous uncleaned block casting sand? Spectrometry analysis will tell you.

 

[Boss_Ram_UK]

I guess that would be good news! Unfortunately I don't have the material to send for testing which is a great shame, so I will have to dump the new oil very early and assess again.

Burla, you suggested PUP for the next oil, unfortunately not easy to get here in the UK so ends up very costly. I have identified the following Fuchs offering that is DEXOS 1 Gen 2 approved, do you think it will be suitable?

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-215137...-performance-engine-oil.aspx?VariantID=343769

Even if i use it for a few low mileage oil changes before returning to Redline.

Thanks again guys, really appreciate the help!

 

[Burla]

I guess that would be good news! Unfortunately I don't have the material to send for testing which is a great shame, so I will have to dump the new oil very early and assess again.

Burla, you suggested PUP for the next oil, unfortunately not easy to get here in the UK so ends up very costly. I have identified the following Fuchs offering that is DEXOS 1 Gen 2 approved, do you think it will be suitable?

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-215137...-performance-engine-oil.aspx?VariantID=343769

Even if i use it for a few low mileage oil changes before returning to Redline.

Thanks again guys, really appreciate the help!

yes you can see they spec ms6395 in stats, which is your spec. If you do a uoa on it we can see moly level. Can you get lubegard biotech? That is the right kind of moly.

 

[Boss_Ram_UK]

yes you can see they spec ms6395 in stats, which is your spec. If you do a uoa on it we can see moly level. Can you get lubegard biotech? That is the right kind of moly.

Great, thanks for checking for me.
I actually have a bottle of lubegard biotech that I was going to try before buying redline, so I can add that the this new oil during the change.
Does the 5W30 sound ideal?
Thanks.

 

[Burla]

Great, thanks for checking for me.
I actually have a bottle of lubegard biotech that I was going to try before buying redline, so I can add that the this new oil during the change.
Does the 5W30 sound ideal?
Thanks.

yes 5w30, and if you add that lubegard when you get your uoa, post it and we can kinda guesstimate the original value.

 

[The Critic]

2020 Ram 5.7 w/eTorque. New oil cooler was installed 5K prior to this sample. This is the SN Plus version of Mobil 1.

 

[Burla]

View attachment 499091

2020 Ram 5.7 w/eTorque. New oil cooler was installed 5K prior to this sample. This is the SN Plus version of Mobil 1.

thanks for sharing, pretty impressive on a young engine, it is a short run but as you see hemi's are about as high wear engines as you will see. Copper is always whack on young hemi's. Just adding that in case you are new to hemi's. Hemi's are like a tale of two cities, one city is gotham and the other city is mayberry. You may have yourself a mayberry right there, one of those 1/2 million care free mile hemi's. Trade ya? I am all the way gotham, I am not expecting to ever see care free miles to that extent.