DSP Users - Spread your knowledge

[lizardking]

You would use the GEQ to flatten out the factory equalization which you don't have since you don't have the Alpine. There may be some EQing going on from the base head unit. You can just use the PEQ.

You can't measure your way to sound quality you must listen your way there. I would use the EQ to flatten out peaks and follow the base curve from JBL without adding so much bass. I think Andy did it that way because most customers want over powering bass rather than true SQ. Your bass should never be over powering and a good set of headphones listening to your favorite tune will confirm that.

 

[troutspinner]

Thanks Etroze86 and lizardking.

I am familiar with the JBL curve and do like it, My last truck was similar to it. Also, I did put in TA measurements. The stage is centered and I am able to pick things out now like I had in my last truck.

I hear ya lizardking, no pun intended! My approach is to get it as technically flat as possible and then let my ears do the fine tuning to music bliss

 

[DavidRam]

Wow, sounds like you are making great progress troutspinner! I am trying to absorb it all, so keep talking you guys... Lol

 

[BradKnob]

Yea, I've always just used GEQ and PEQ in conjunction with one another. If you say the inputs have PEQ, then I guess you would use that to flatten out the signal going into the processor? Tho I'm not quite sure how you would measure that.

I started with the JBL curve as a template, but like lizardking said above, it's unlikely that any target curve will fit your preference perfectly. It will get you headed in the right direction.

I think the best thing to use RTA for is to match left v right response and catch any major leaks and dips. No way could I have done it by ear, I'm not that good.

 

[troutspinner]

Yea, I've always just used GEQ and PEQ in conjunction with one another. If you say the inputs have PEQ, then I guess you would use that to flatten out the signal going into the processor? Tho I'm not quite sure how you would measure that.

Brad, the Inputs have GEQ and the Outputs have PEQ. It makes sense to me that you would use the inputs GEQ to flatten the factory signal, much like a JL Cleansweep would do. I agree about not being sure how to do it. You'd have to go from the HU into the computer I suppose but what would it get you in the end? A flat response that sounds like crap that you would end up changing anyways? It would be for nothing.

I am going to continue with how I was doing it earlier, adjusting the output PEQ for a flat response. After that, I will use the input GEQ to get the overall sound I want. I don't know that one way or the other is correct or incorrect, achieving a clean output that sounds good is the goal right?

I just took a little ride, my system definitely needs EQ'ing and gain adjustments yet but the clarity and stage right now is SO much better. I am pretty impressed with myself right now....and all of you! I can't thank you guys enough for all of the help you've given....and I am sure will continue to give.

Davidram, yes, lots of progress and it tells me to tell you, do it yourself! It is difficult for us to connect the dots because we are just reading. Once you get your hands into it, one thing leads to the other and it makes sense.

 

[DavidRam]

Brad, the Inputs have GEQ and the Outputs have PEQ. It makes sense to me that you would use the inputs GEQ to flatten the factory signal, much like a JL Cleansweep would do. I agree about not being sure how to do it. You'd have to go from the HU into the computer I suppose but what would it get you in the end? A flat response that sounds like crap that you would end up changing anyways? It would be for nothing.

I am going to continue with how I was doing it earlier, adjusting the output PEQ for a flat response. After that, I will use the input GEQ to get the overall sound I want. I don't know that one way or the other is correct or incorrect, achieving a clean output that sounds good is the goal right?

I just took a little ride, my system definitely needs EQ'ing and gain adjustments yet but the clarity and stage right now is SO much better. I am pretty impressed with myself right now....and all of you! I can't thank you guys enough for all of the help you've given....and I am sure will continue to give.

Davidram, yes, lots of progress and it tells me to tell you, do it yourself! It is difficult for us to connect the dots because we are just reading. Once you get your hands into it, one thing leads to the other and it makes sense.

Good to hear, that it's sounding good so far! I have been doing alot of reading and playing around with the deq-8 program... I realized that my fat fingers were having trouble on the tablet, so I ordered a bluetooth mouse for it.

Keep on sharing your progress man, it's great stuff!

 

[troutspinner]

I am in audio bliss! I PEQ'd my sub, blended all of my volumes and GEQ'd and it is sounding great! If I didn't know better, I would think I had a center speaker on my dash dedicated to just the singer and even though I am not using rear fill, there are some songs where you would swear there are speakers in the rear of the truck.

I'll give my ears a rest for a few days and enjoy it and probably knit pick at it after but damn is it nice to have proper stage and sound back. I think I do miss my rear fill, not for stage but for that flooding affect of shear volume. I may tinker with it down the road since the speakers are already in place but all in due time.

Thanks again for all of the help guys, you really made a difference.

Davidram, I am no expert but if you need any advice on the DEQ, I should be able to help. Like I said in a previous post though, it's just a matter of "doing it" and you will get it.

 

[Etroze86]

Awesome man glad its coming together for you. How much have you been messuring and how much have you been doing by ear?

 

[troutspinner]

Awesome man glad its coming together for you. How much have you been messuring and how much have you been doing by ear?

I PEQ'd all speakers and leveled all speakers individually by RTA and DB measurement. After that I GEQ'd by ear and then made further level adjustments by pairs by ear.

 

[Etroze86]

awesome good info man.

 

[troutspinner]

PEQ vs GEQ Again!

PEQ vs GEQ Again!

After reading a few posts and seeing some software interfaces on DIYMA last night of the PPI DSP-88R, it got me thinking about the difference of PEQ and GEQ again. It also pointed out to me why my questions to you guys about the difference of the EQ's were probably confusing.

To confirm, I downloaded the manuals for the PPI DSP-88R, Helix DSP and RF 360.3. In each of their software, they have Q control for every GEQ Band. Separate, some also have filter controls where an individual channel can be corrected.

The DEQ.8 DOES NOT have Q controls on it's GEQ. It does have what they call PEQ on each channel, PEQ would be what other DSPs call filters for correction.

So if there was any confusion, now we know. It does however make me want controls on BOTH!

 

[BradKnob]

Damn, that explains it. I was thrown off when u said the inputs have PEQ because I was thinking how, on the helix, that would work.

Ur doing work man, glad it's coming along. Seems like I may be learning from you before its all over with.

 

[troutspinner]

I just can't leave well enough alone

I stated in yesterday's post about rear fill. Since I am on vacation and have time, and also because the wife will not let me hang Xmas lights until AFTER Thanksgiving, I was sitting around bored and thinking.

Thinking always leads to problems.

So I decided to incorporate my rear speakers into the DSP. Because I do not have an additional amp, I had to re-incorporate the Xovers for my front comps to try this. After a few minutes of re-landing wires and creating a new config for my DEQ.8, there was life.....Oh sweet rear fill!

Rear fill is 100% preference so let's just leave that there, I am the type that likes to hear it.

I time aligned based on the center of the front comps and it did not disappoint. My stage was nicely in front of me and the vocalist still centered although the stage was not as deep as it was 2 way. A small level adjustment, and I do mean small, my stage was pushed even deeper forward, still not as deep as 2 way but IMO perfect!

Now the cab has ambiance and is filled with sound, and wow! is it loud! The best way to describe it is listen to a band on stage vs. wearing a very good set of surround sound headphones. I guess I am a headphone guy.

I can't remember the song right now but there is a sax playing and you hear from the left rear speaker, where it's meant to be heard. Drum rolls are incredible, I always point to Mr. Roboto for this, about 45 seconds in is a drum roll that now rolls around the cabin, not front to back as I hear it in 2-way.

So to the point of this long winded post. Those crossovers have got to go and I need an amp to power the tweeters. Can anyone recommend a good, small, Class D amp? I am RMS'ing around 85 watts per channel for the woofers so I would think an amp for the tweeters near the same wattage would be in order or should I be looking more towards 50 RMS per channel?

 

[Etroze86]

I can find you decent class a/b amps that would work for you and great post man I like the idea of a 360 listening area.

 

[troutspinner]

Brad, I just downloaded the Helix Pro 3.0 Software, Wow! That is SO nice. The EQ in that is amazing and the fact that they give you RTA tools where you can load target curves is awesome. I am starting to understand why that DSP is so coveted. I still hate the price but yeah, A Helix DSP Pro is on my short list.

I should not have looked at it, every adjustment I make on my DEQ going forward I am going to be saying this would be so much easier and more precise with a Helix. I'll have to call my guy and see what he can do price wise, he deals with Helix so I know I can get it a slight bit lesser than when Crutchfield finally carries it.

Etroze, please do. I don't "have to have" a class D, Class D is just typically smaller and I would like to keep it smaller if possible.....which is now going to create a whole other post on mounting stuff on the back wall.

 

[Etroze86]

Look on this page and let me know what you think of the size.
http://www.ramforum.com/f51/rcsb_audio_build-37232/index40.html
This is the smallest 4ch I can get as it is 60.4 and I can get one that is a couple inches longer that is an 80.4. Very nice sounding amps that don't break the bank and the really nice thing about the 80.4 is that IIRC bridged at 4ohms it puts out 270w rms.

 

[troutspinner]

Look on this page and let me know what you think of the size.
http://www.ramforum.com/f51/rcsb_audio_build-37232/index40.html
This is the smallest 4ch I can get as it is 60.4 and I can get one that is a couple inches longer that is an 80.4. Very nice sounding amps that don't break the bank and the really nice thing about the 80.4 is that IIRC bridged at 4ohms it puts out 270w rms.

The 60.4 looks very nice. Can you PM me a price on that and the 80.4 please.

The only thing that is going to kill me about it is that I will have 2 channels doing nothing. See, it's stuff like that, that kills me! My OCD will tell me I have to use those two left-over channels for something so why not install mids up front. That in turn will force me to get a Helix Pro because I will need 10 outputs then.....and on and on and on!

 

[Etroze86]

Haha yes I can get you a price and shoot me a pm with your zip code. Off to NY second job so it will be a little later till I get you the quote.

 

[troutspinner]

Will do. No problem on time.

 

[DavidRam]

The only thing that is going to kill me about it is that I will have 2 channels doing nothing. See, it's stuff like that, that kills me! My OCD will tell me I have to use those two left-over channels for something so why not install mids up front. That in turn will force me to get a Helix Pro because I will need 10 outputs then.....and on and on and on!

Damn, it sounds like there are more of us... I don't feel so bad anymore.

I got the new Hat tweeters and then I thought "why would I put new tweeters with 30 days old Hertz mids and woofers?" So I got new mids and woofers and then I thought "why would I get all these new components and not run them active?" So I decide on getting a dsp to replace my 30 day old lcq-8 and was then told "you need a 6 channel amp." So I got a Arc amp to replace a 30 day old Skar amp. Lol!