first time buyer question

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torndecision

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Hello everyone im a first time buyer and i have decided on ram.my question is do i get these discounts applied towards the sale price? Or does the price include all discounts including mfr. discounts? Sorry if this is a ignorant question, I dont have a father to help me with this.
 

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MADDOG

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The incentives are not included in the posted price. You ask for them to be applied...after you have negotiated the price of the vehicle.
 

MikeG

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X2^^^^ negotiate till they won't move anymore.
I paid 25,221 for my express
 

TerraNewf

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Welcome to the forum. Sorry, can't help with the express because it isn't offered in Canada
 

MR.Z06

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Just offer $500 above ACTUAL. (find out that that is)
Not invoice. Actual.
They're going to try and tell you that invoice is what they paid, which is BS.
You're not going to avoid dealer pack and fees so I wouldn't bother trying.
Good luck.
 

mtofell

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Being a good negotiator and being patient are probably the best ways to get the best price. There are some pretty good tools that will get you a decent price with very little hassle. Look into things like True-Car or the Costco Auto Buying Program. These take very little time and effort and can save you a bunch of cash.... especially if you don't want to sit in the cubicle at the dealership all day.
 

Hans Gruber

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Some advice

Glad you're looking at buying a RAM. Car buying can be frustrating so it's important to do some homework before beginning the process. I've bought a few new cars and I know a bit about the business from a family member and reading about the industry.

For RAM, check out Dennis Dillon's website. It's an Idaho dealership that does very good volume and advertises very low prices (they claim it's the lowest). In the car business, higher volume dealers have lower cost because they get large incentives for hitting benchmarks (for example, 100K at 100 cars, etc). You can either buy from them and fly out to pick it up or you can use this as a target price for your vehicle.

But a smaller dealer is not lying to you when they say they're not making any money at the Dennis Dillon price. But don't believe anything a salesman tells you either. They will show you an invoice, which is basically a lie. The industry has something called "holdback" which is a refund the dealer gets when they sell the car. The public invoices they show to customers exclude this and other things (of course, things like the volume incentive vary from month to month). It's really hard to actually know their cost and they won't divulge it (though they might claim to).

The dealer will also look to make as much money as they can on financing and your trade. Negotiate price first without talking about trade then try to get what you think is a fair price for your trade.

For financing, it's best to get approved at your own bank so you know what interest rate you should get. Dealers can often beat the rate you get with banks as a solo customer, so you can say, "look I'm approved at 4 percent at my local bank, beat that and I'll finance with you guys." ALWAYS double check the paperwork, it's not unheard for a dealer to say the loan is X percent but for the paperwork to actually vary. Even at a competitive rate, the dealer will get some extra profit from making the deal happen. That is OK, but if you have an offer from a bank in hand it allows you to gauge the deal much better.

If you are going used and there are things that need to be fixed and the dealer promises to do so, get it in writing. No need to be a jerk about it but say, look I would just need that in writing if we close on this deal. Don't trust anything they tell you for that matter. If they say the vehicle is under warranty, verify that (specifically, look on carfax to see if the maintenance as reported conforms to warranty requirements). If there is unreported maintenance on that carfax and you are buying used, a mfg can and will deny a claim related to that lack of maintenance.

The old saying that you should buy a car at the end of the month remains true. This is where they are looking to meet their goals so they can get their volume bonuses, etc. It is not unheard of to sell a few cars at a loss at the end of the month to reach whatever goal they have.

LAST, don't get pressured into buying. There are a lot of psychological games dealers can play that will just make you want to capitulate (making you wait for extended periods of time to break your will to walk away is a big one). Don't play their game and don't be afraid to walk away, either.

Some post purchase advice, DON'T buy any warranty from the dealer you buy from. MOPAR (Chrysler) offers an excellent extended warranty and the best price you can get is online, price is around $2500 or so for lifetime mechanical coverage.

Good luck!
 

Hans Gruber

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As to your specific question, the rebates are same as cash, so you don't have to wait for that money back. At least some states make you pay tax on the pre-rebate portion of the purchase, which can cost hundreds of dollars more in tax.

The rebates vary from model and from month to month. When I bought my RAM I actually got a additional $1,000 rebate in the mail (I think on my first test drive they entered my info from my license in a system, is my guess). No idea if this is still going but it sure was nice.

As mentioned in previous post, use Dennis Dillon website to figure out what the rock bottom pricing is. The "as low as" price is dependent on way too many factors but the "sales price" is available to any buyer. Sometimes there are additional incentives like college grad, military, owner of other brand, etc. Unfortunately, some dealers are not real upfront on what all qualifies. Good luck
 

Royals

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Glad you're looking at buying a RAM. Car buying can be frustrating so it's important to do some homework before beginning the process. I've bought a few new cars and I know a bit about the business from a family member and reading about the industry.

For RAM, check out Dennis Dillon's website. It's an Idaho dealership that does very good volume and advertises very low prices (they claim it's the lowest). In the car business, higher volume dealers have lower cost because they get large incentives for hitting benchmarks (for example, 100K at 100 cars, etc). You can either buy from them and fly out to pick it up or you can use this as a target price for your vehicle.

But a smaller dealer is not lying to you when they say they're not making any money at the Dennis Dillon price. But don't believe anything a salesman tells you either. They will show you an invoice, which is basically a lie. The industry has something called "holdback" which is a refund the dealer gets when they sell the car. The public invoices they show to customers exclude this and other things (of course, things like the volume incentive vary from month to month). It's really hard to actually know their cost and they won't divulge it (though they might claim to).

The dealer will also look to make as much money as they can on financing and your trade. Negotiate price first without talking about trade then try to get what you think is a fair price for your trade.

For financing, it's best to get approved at your own bank so you know what interest rate you should get. Dealers can often beat the rate you get with banks as a solo customer, so you can say, "look I'm approved at 4 percent at my local bank, beat that and I'll finance with you guys." ALWAYS double check the paperwork, it's not unheard for a dealer to say the loan is X percent but for the paperwork to actually vary. Even at a competitive rate, the dealer will get some extra profit from making the deal happen. That is OK, but if you have an offer from a bank in hand it allows you to gauge the deal much better.

If you are going used and there are things that need to be fixed and the dealer promises to do so, get it in writing. No need to be a jerk about it but say, look I would just need that in writing if we close on this deal. Don't trust anything they tell you for that matter. If they say the vehicle is under warranty, verify that (specifically, look on carfax to see if the maintenance as reported conforms to warranty requirements). If there is unreported maintenance on that carfax and you are buying used, a mfg can and will deny a claim related to that lack of maintenance.

The old saying that you should buy a car at the end of the month remains true. This is where they are looking to meet their goals so they can get their volume bonuses, etc. It is not unheard of to sell a few cars at a loss at the end of the month to reach whatever goal they have.

LAST, don't get pressured into buying. There are a lot of psychological games dealers can play that will just make you want to capitulate (making you wait for extended periods of time to break your will to walk away is a big one). Don't play their game and don't be afraid to walk away, either.

Some post purchase advice, DON'T buy any warranty from the dealer you buy from. MOPAR (Chrysler) offers an excellent extended warranty and the best price you can get is online, price is around $2500 or so for lifetime mechanical coverage.

Good luck!

As a former car salesman this is 100% spot on. Read this a few times so you can take it all in.

Very nice post Hans, props!
 

Hans Gruber

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Just offer $500 above ACTUAL. (find out that that is)
Not invoice. Actual.
They're going to try and tell you that invoice is what they paid, which is BS.
You're not going to avoid dealer pack and fees so I wouldn't bother trying.
Good luck.

This is iffy advice. They won't actually divulge their cost and if they do it excludes their volume incentives they make from month to month which significantly alter their cost structure. It's an easy way to get in a fight about them being dishonest when they come back with a "cost" 4K above lowest advertised internet price or make negotiation much more difficult when you laugh in their face at their cost.

Better solution is to check out competitive dealers online (Dennis Dillon), and then try to get them as close as you can and walk away if you have to. Honestly, you'll save a lot more money just buying a plane ticket out there if they can't come pretty close to that price. Many dealers won't approach a volume dealer's price, and that's fine. But he should know the "best price" one dealer can honestly offer will vary significantly from the "best price" a much larger dealer can offer.
 

Hans Gruber

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Thank you very much Hans Gruber.


Oh, and while I am not familiar with car gurus that price quoted almost certainly includes the rebates already.

Dennis Dillon other day had some 6 cylinder quad cabs for 27k, but a 5.7 hemi quad cab with 4x4 is going to cost around 31k right now (including rebates). Not sure what configuration you want. I love my hemi but I'm not sure I would pay 4k more for it if I were asked today. I think there's extra rebate on the 6 cylinders because of gas prices right now. The "sales price" posted at Dennis Dillon should be your target price at your local dealer but if you can't get them close, you can always just fly out and pick it up.

Something else to keep in mind as first time buyer. You will need to pay taxe on purchase (sales tax for most states), as well as license plates, which can be a lot on a brand new 40K MSRP vehicle (my state plates run about 600 or 700 for a vehicle in that range but it goes down 10 or 15 percent each year). If you buy out of state, you will most likely pay the sales tax when you register the vehicle. So if you buy a 30k, vehicle, you're going to need another couple thousand by the time you register vehicle, unfortunately. When you finance, they can usually include sales tax in the financing but without any downpayment that might impact your interest rate further.
 

MR.Z06

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This is iffy advice. They won't actually divulge their cost and if they do it excludes their volume incentives they make from month to month which significantly alter their cost structure. It's an easy way to get in a fight about them being dishonest when they come back with a "cost" 4K above lowest advertised internet price or make negotiation much more difficult when you laugh in their face at their cost.

Better solution is to check out competitive dealers online (Dennis Dillon), and then try to get them as close as you can and walk away if you have to. Honestly, you'll save a lot more money just buying a plane ticket out there if they can't come pretty close to that price. Many dealers won't approach a volume dealer's price, and that's fine. But he should know the "best price" one dealer can honestly offer will vary significantly from the "best price" a much larger dealer can offer.
Huh?
With about 5 minutes of research you can find out what their cost is.
E-mail any or all of the dealers around you and pick the one that will accept the deal you offer.
I don't see what's iffy about this. With your advice this guy is buying a freaking airline ticket?
Yeah buddy talk about iffy advice. There is NO WAY there isn't a dealership within driving distance of this guy who's internet department won't sell at + $500 and that's being generous. I'm sure you could easily get a $250 mini.
 

Greeco

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When negotiating, the salesman will ask you what monthly payment you want to be at. Don't fall into this trap. Negotiate the price of the truck, not the monthly payment. There are several ways a dealership can take more of your money by focusing on the monthly payment rather than the actual sales price of the truck. Be careful with this.
 

Hootbro

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Run away from any dealership that utilizes the "4 Square" sheet in negotiating.

4-square.jpg
 

baum

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1. be aware sometimes the prices you see online are for those who qualify for "extra" rebates (military, current FCA lease, competitive lease.....blah blah balh)
2. if you have good credit (720+) you have the ability to negotiate your interest rate. Dealerships can mark up an apr by 2% then they pocket the difference. know what you can get elsewhere and use it as a tool. i say if you have good credit dont pay higher than 2-2.5%.
 

nards444

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This is iffy advice. They won't actually divulge their cost and if they do it excludes their volume incentives they make from month to month which significantly alter their cost structure. It's an easy way to get in a fight about them being dishonest when they come back with a "cost" 4K above lowest advertised internet price or make negotiation much more difficult when you laugh in their face at their cost.

Better solution is to check out competitive dealers online (Dennis Dillon), and then try to get them as close as you can and walk away if you have to. Honestly, you'll save a lot more money just buying a plane ticket out there if they can't come pretty close to that price. Many dealers won't approach a volume dealer's price, and that's fine. But he should know the "best price" one dealer can honestly offer will vary significantly from the "best price" a much larger dealer can offer.

500 above actual might be tough, but doable specially if it is a lot queen. But even if they dont tell you that number there is two ways to find, both include finding invoice price. You can ask for invoice price if they give it to you great, if not get on truecar punch the truck in and you can get it that way. After you got it take MSRP and multiply by 3% take that number and subtract it from invoice, that is what they paid. Unless there is some factory to dealer incentive which they would probably never divulge that. For example truck is 100 MSRP the 3% or hold back is $3 then. Say invoice is 90, they paid $87 for the truck. They arent going to give you that whole 3% more than likely 1-2%.

Once you have negoiated this price, rebates and incentives are then subtracted. Never let a dealer fool you into thinking those are coming out of their pocket.
 

Hans Gruber

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Huh?
With about 5 minutes of research you can find out what their cost is.
E-mail any or all of the dealers around you and pick the one that will accept the deal you offer.
I don't see what's iffy about this. With your advice this guy is buying a freaking airline ticket?
Yeah buddy talk about iffy advice. There is NO WAY there isn't a dealership within driving distance of this guy who's internet department won't sell at + $500 and that's being generous. I'm sure you could easily get a $250 mini.

Didn't mean to be rude. I just think starting negotiations by saying "X above your actual" cost is likely to waste a lot of everybody's time since most dealers will not be upfront about their "actual cost." That's just true and it's especially true with trucks since there is such a huge mark down from MSRP on a typical sale and such room for interpretation on "actual cost."

I think the better approach is to simply know a good price for the vehicle (by checking a dealer like Dennis Dillon) and then try to get your nearby dealer to come as close as they can to it. But to each their own.
 
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