first time buyer question

[nards444]

End of the day if you pay above invoice for anything thats run of the mill which most trucks are, you over paid.

 

[Hootbro]

End of the day if you pay above invoice for anything thats run of the mill which most trucks are, you over paid.

On the same token, no matter how good of a deal you got, somebody is gonna claim they got a better deal and say you got taken on your deal.

 

[nards444]

On the same token, no matter how good of a deal you got, somebody is gonna claim they got a better deal and say you got taken on your deal.

No i agree, theres always that one off that says I got invoice minus 10% etc etc. But unless your buying a one off car, which trucks arent, paying over invoice is getting ripped dont matter how you cut it.

 

[Hootbro]

No i agree, theres always that one off that says I got invoice minus 10% etc etc. But unless your buying a one off car, which trucks arent, paying over invoice is getting ripped dont matter how you cut it.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that I will not break someones balls if they paid above or at invoice. Not every market area will play that game and many places stick to MSRP or nothing. It is also not in the cards depending on distance for some to go elsewhere to get the bottom dollar pricing.

Sometimes getting it $500 cheaper somewhere else and then expecting the local dealer you passed over buying from to now give you consideration or preference taking it in for service and warranty, is not always dollars and sense ahead in the long run to squeeze the last nickle on the front end of a deal.

 

[MR.Z06]

Didn't mean to be rude. I just think starting negotiations by saying "X above your actual" cost is likely to waste a lot of everybody's time since most dealers will not be upfront about their "actual cost." That's just true and it's especially true with trucks since there is such a huge mark down from MSRP on a typical sale and such room for interpretation on "actual cost."

I think the better approach is to simply know a good price for the vehicle (by checking a dealer like Dennis Dillon) and then try to get your nearby dealer to come as close as they can to it. But to each their own.

I'm just saying that if you do your due diligence and apply some grey matter to the subject that you can get a great deal on most new vehicles. There are usually very slim to sometimes non existent margins on them. (Edit:besides the aforementioned owner pack/"fees" which besides the occasional lightning bolt deal the average consumer isn't avoiding)
There is no way that buying a plane ticket, taking time off work or out of vacation/weekend, gas, food, lodging(?) and still come out ahead.
That's just crazy talk.

 

[ExpressRules]

There is no way that buying a plane ticket, taking time off work or out of vacation/weekend, gas, food, lodging(?) and still come out ahead.
That's just crazy talk.

This is very true. If someone fly's half way across the country and incurs lodging fees, gas and toll charges to ride home to get the lowest price just on principle and in the end only saved $100 or even $200, $300 when all the costs are added up then they have no self respect for the value of their own time.

 

[nards444]

I guess the point I am trying to make is that I will not break someones balls if they paid above or at invoice. Not every market area will play that game and many places stick to MSRP or nothing. It is also not in the cards depending on distance for some to go elsewhere to get the bottom dollar pricing.

Sometimes getting it $500 cheaper somewhere else and then expecting the local dealer you passed over buying from to now give you consideration or preference taking it in for service and warranty, is not always dollars and sense ahead in the long run to squeeze the last nickle on the front end of a deal.

Not everybody is in the same boat, and some people live in different areas and the only dealer is 2 hours away, other than that its a plane ticket with time off work, and just doesnt make sense. But for the majority its not true.

I have bought 5 trucks in the last 7 years, two were local. The ones that werent, were serviced just as easy and well as the ones that werent. When I buy im not buying a dealer, some guys might like having their coffee cup with their name on it waiting in the serivce department I do not care.

Trades dealers are going whole sale anyways these days, very few big box dealers keep their trades anymore and only willing to give you auction prices. But a repeat customer, they may go a little more here and there.

 

[Hootbro]

Not everybody is in the same boat, and some people live in different areas and the only dealer is 2 hours away, other than that its a plane ticket with time off work, and just doesnt make sense. But for the majority its not true.

I have bought 5 trucks in the last 7 years, two were local. The ones that werent, were serviced just as easy and well as the ones that werent. When I buy im not buying a dealer, some guys might like having their coffee cup with their name on it waiting in the serivce department I do not care.

Trades dealers are going whole sale anyways these days, very few big box dealers keep their trades anymore and only willing to give you auction prices. But a repeat customer, they may go a little more here and there.

I did not say everybody is in the same boat. As pointed out by both of us, every deal is different and circumstances are different.

I just do not make blanket statements that somebody got hosed if they did not pay at or below invoice.

If you are looking for some kind of "Special Olympics" win on the internet here, have at it, you got the gold medal.

 

[nards444]

I did not say everybody is in the same boat. As pointed out by both of us, every deal is different and circumstances are different.

I just do not make blanket statements that somebody got hosed if they did not pay at or below invoice.

If you are looking for some kind of "Special Olympics" win on the internet here, have at it, you got the gold medal.

Were saying the same thing relax. But I still stand to the fact that if you paid over invoice for the 95% out there you got hosed, sorry its true, if your fine with that I am, because I really dont care what others spend or dont spend. But when somebody asks what they should pay, the answer is invoice minus incentives, not a cent more. And if your the guy that lives 5 hours from civilization got it or the guy has some weird circumstance, got that, thats the 5% out there. But for the rest of us if you dont get invoice you dont understand how the process works, and probably should read a little, so you can save some easy cash.

 

[ExpressRules]

Were saying the same thing relax. But I still stand to the fact that if you paid over invoice for the 95% out there you got hosed, sorry its true, if your fine with that I am, because I really dont care what others spend or dont spend. But when somebody asks what they should pay, the answer is invoice minus incentives, not a cent more. And if your the guy that lives 5 hours from civilization got it or the guy has some weird circumstance, got that, thats the 5% out there. But for the rest of us if you dont get invoice you dont understand how the process works, and probably should read a little, so you can save some easy cash.

But, the point has to be made that the reason that some people can get "invoice minus incentives" is because there are a reasonable number of buyers that actually pay more. Not every dealer in the country can be high volume enough to survive with every sale being just above invoice.

In the end, overhead rules the roost. That's the ABC's of business.

 

[Rzrman328]

One of the better threads lately.

Very informative yet with a bit of **** and vinegar added.

I like it...carry on.

 

[nards444]

But, the point has to be made that the reason that some people can get "invoice minus incentives" is because there are a reasonable number of buyers that actually pay more. Not every dealer in the country can be high volume enough to survive with every sale being just above invoice.

In the end, overhead rules the roost. That's the ABC's of business.

Yes and no. Dealers love to say invoice is giving it away. a 40k truck they sell for invoice they made 1200 bucks on that, then theres warranties, add ons etc,doc fees where they make money, they make money if you finance through them. Granted they do have employees and overhead to pay for. The dealer is also making money on your trade, they are more than likely going to get you for service, and they treated you right you will come back. You also have to remember if its a lot car, its bought and paid for, and taking up space, it cant make you money till its gone, and its taking up room for the next one to be sold. ON an special order car, there's little over head, the car comes in once, is cleaned once and its gone.

So really in any market invoice is a fair price for everybody when you considers everything thats factored into the purchase.

 

[ExpressRules]

Yes and no. Dealers love to say invoice is giving it away. a 40k truck they sell for invoice they made 1200 bucks on that, then theres warranties, add ons etc,doc fees where they make money, they make money if you finance through them. Granted they do have employees and overhead to pay for. The dealer is also making money on your trade, they are more than likely going to get you for service, and they treated you right you will come back. You also have to remember if its a lot car, its bought and paid for, and taking up space, it cant make you money till its gone, and its taking up room for the next one to be sold. ON an special order car, there's little over head, the car comes in once, is cleaned once and its gone.

So really in any market invoice is a fair price for everybody when you considers everything thats factored into the purchase.

You kind of miss the point I was trying to get across that those that pay more make it easier for those that fight tooth and nail for a better deal. In your short stay here you come across as someone that wants to debate things to death, or at least until your "correct and only way" is agreed to. Good points on both sides of the discussion have been brought forth by many and with that I will step away.

 

[nards444]

You kind of miss the point I was trying to get across that those that pay more make it easier for those that fight tooth and nail for a better deal. In your short stay here you come across as someone that wants to debate things to death, or at least until your "correct and only way" is agreed to. Good points on both sides of the discussion have been brought forth by many and with that I will step away.

I get what your saying, you figure those that pay more allow others to pay less. I guess maybe. Bottom line for a dealer is numbers, the more the better. As the owner hes going to make his cut, salesman its off what they sell.

Just giving the OP information. I know people have been doing things a certain way for a long time, as in going to the same dealer forever, and they want to feel as if they got a good deal, heck we all do.

My point out of anything is know how the pricing works, then where the chips lay they lay, if your happy with it, cool.

 

[Hans Gruber]

There is no way that buying a plane ticket, taking time off work or out of vacation/weekend, gas, food, lodging(?) and still come out ahead.
That's just crazy talk.

If you go into a smallish dealer and negotiate all day, you're not going to come close to a Dennis Dillon price, in my experience. On a typical day, the "best price" from an average dealer is going to be 2-3k higher, if my experience is any kin. You also can get the rock bottom price on any of the inventory, while many other dealers might only give you a low price on certain vehicles that have been sitting on lot awhile or that they anticipate might be a little harder to sell. For most, it's just an easy way to check out a realistic competitive price. That's what I used it for but I wouldn't hesitate to fly out and take a long drive home (I could do it in one day) if it saved me $3k or so.

 

[MR.Z06]

If you go into a smallish dealer and negotiate all day, you're not going to come close to a Dennis Dillon price, in my experience. On a typical day, the "best price" from an average dealer is going to be 2-3k higher, if my experience is any kin. You also can get the rock bottom price on any of the inventory, while many other dealers might only give you a low price on certain vehicles that have been sitting on lot awhile or that they anticipate might be a little harder to sell. For most, it's just an easy way to check out a realistic competitive price. That's what I used it for but I wouldn't hesitate to fly out and take a long drive home (I could do it in one day) if it saved me $3k or so.

Why would you ever go INTO the actual dealership to negotiate? You go into the dealership to test drive, then later to sign paperwork, and if you're unfortunate for a warranty claim.
And SAVE you THREE THOUSAND??? ON A NEW CAR???
Ok this is why you never go into the actual dealership to negotiate in the first place. It should NEVER have gotten to that out of control where there is three freaking thousand dollars wiggle room on a new car.

I don't even know where to begin. I mean you obviously have access to the internet and yet...

 

[Hans Gruber]

Ok this is why you never go into the actual dealership to negotiate in the first place. It should NEVER have gotten to that out of control where there is three freaking thousand dollars wiggle room on a new car.

I don't even know where to begin. I mean you obviously have access to the internet and yet...

Most small dealers won't entertain a Dennis Dillon price. That's the point. They have different cost structures, so if one finds themselves unable to get the truck they want at the price they want, they can always make a trip.

If you had luck with local dealers matching rock bottom pricing akin to Dennis Dillon with a quick email or two, that's great. If you have several large volume dealers nearby, that isn't surprising. Not everybody is in the same situation.

And of course I used the internet to try to get the best deal I could. Ultimately, I did find a great deal but it took awhile. At the time, most were quoting prices 2-3k higher than the price I ultimately paid. Around 7k off MSRP instead of 10K off.

 

[Matt052]

I used Kernersville for my price point, My local dealer matched it which made me happy and in the end that's all that matters!

 

[Hans Gruber]

I used Kernersville for my price point, My local dealer matched it which made me happy and in the end that's all that matters!

I really might be underestimating the number of dealers willing to match really low advertised prices. Even one large volume dealer just blew me off completely when I asked if they would MATCH (not beat) the offer I eventually took (which was advertised on website for easy verification). Maybe I just have some crummy dealers in my area but that was my experience.

 

[baum]

1. keep in mind a dealer doesnt "own" new cars on the lot. after 90 days they make monthly payments to FCA. they never have to fully pay for a new vehicle. only cars they "own" are used. which is why when they run "killer specials" its always on the oldest vehcels. or they will deal more on those.
2. you can get smaller dealers to move. both of my trucks i purchased from smaller dealers. my old '13 they were $15 a month away from where i wanted to be. i told them where i needed to be with the warranty and they did it. same thing with my '15 laramie. my truck stickered for 49.9 and i got it for 35.5k. both of these were smaller single stores (no multiple dealers)the first one had no other ram dealers for 30 miles. the second one had many within 10-20 most being volume dealers too