GM & Ford Turn Ram's Tailgate Longhorn Upside-down

[ramffml]

My point was opinions are not facts.

I guess you didn't catch my sarcasm....I was simply making a point that we all have our own opinions...Whether a truck is ugly or not is all a matter of personal preference. I think its ugly, but I understand that many people like the way they look

I got the sarcasm, but my point is, "ugly" is a subjective term, but it is still "right" or "wrong" based on how many people in the group agree with you. It's like calling Emma Watson or Kierra Knightly ugly. You are definitely welcome to your opinion, but the majority of the straight male population (and I would wager the majority of women as well) consider these women very attractive. So then they're not ugly, despite what 1 person out of 10 might think.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

 

[Fatbob Frank]

On a related note- the wife and I saw our first Bronco Sport commercial last night.
" Are they trying to make an ugly Jeep Renegade?" she asked." and WTH is GOAT mode?"
I said " ****** preference would be my guess..."
I'm a huge fan of the original Broncos even the full sized F150 variants but these new ones do nothing for me.

 

[tidefan1967]

I got the sarcasm, but my point is, "ugly" is a subjective term, but it is still "right" or "wrong" based on how many people in the group agree with you. It's like calling Emma Watson or Kierra Knightly ugly. You are definitely welcome to your opinion, but the majority of the straight male population (and I would wager the majority of women as well) consider these women very attractive. So then they're not ugly, despite what 1 person out of 10 might think.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

Its such a beautiful truck it that will be refreshed with a new model later this year after just coming out in 2019. I guarantee that if you did a poll on it here on Ramforum and made "ugly" one of the choices probably 80% of the responds would pick ugly as their choice. Beyond this forum who gives a damn what anyone else thinks. It was really a bad year as far as sales numbers go (for everybody) due to lack of both incentives and inventory so I wouldn't pay too much attention to those numbers as the GM twins added together pretty much always outsold Ford regardless of what anybody says. I guarantee you that under that sheet metal overhaul is the same POS as the 2014-2018 GM trucks............

 

[ramffml]

Its such a beautiful truck it that will be refreshed with a new model later this year after just coming out in 2019. I guarantee that if you did a poll on it here on Ramforum and made "ugly" one of the choices probably 80% of the responds would pick ugly as their choice. Beyond this forum who gives a damn what anyone else thinks. It was really a bad year as far as sales numbers go (for everybody) due to lack of both incentives and inventory so I wouldn't pay too much attention to those numbers as the GM twins added together pretty much always outsold Ford regardless of what anybody says. I guarantee you that under that sheet metal overhaul is the same POS as the 2014-2018 GM trucks............

The interior is getting a refresh, and any exterior refreshes (I've not heard of any) are simply "due to product cycle", every car/truck gets that.

Of course this forum will find the GM's ugly, lol, big surprise!

It was a bad year for sales, and yet... GM was the only manufacturer with an increase in sales, coming out in number 1 for total sales. Hmmm.

And no, there have been many years (more often than not, especially recently) where Ford still outsold GM combined.

It's beyond me why some have to trash a truck just because they own a competing brand. I love my Ram, but GM makes a solid truck (as does Ford, Toyota etc).

 

[BriamH]

Since the GM twins are vastly outselling the Ram, with a higher price and an objectively worse interior (which nobody denies), you have a choice: either they're not as ugly as you want them to be, or the Rams are so horrid in one way or another that an all around ugly truck still manages to outsell it.

I think we know the answer here, but brand loyalty doesn't let some see the truth.

For the year, RAM out sold Chevy 634K to 576K. No, RAM didn't outsell Chevy and GMC combined.

 

[ramffml]

For the year, RAM out sold Chevy 634K to 576K. No, RAM didn't outsell Chevy and GMC combined.

You have to combine them, it's the only way that makes sense. You have Ford combining F150 + F250 + F350 (which are completely separate trucks) and making the claim "Ford is the best selling truck in America for 50+ years!!", and then many people refuse to combine the Chevy + GMC when the differences between them amount to "trim level".

So lets not play games here. Everyone knows that the GM twins are the most popular at this point. Same company, same shareholders, same engineers, same frame, same engine, same transmission, same interior, same seats, same wheels, same bolts, only differences are front grills and a few swooping side lines (around the wheels).

 

[HemiLonestar]

Of course this forum will find the GM's ugly, lol, big surprise!

Well yeah, I mean, look at it; it IS ugly.



But then again I think the new Ram is ugly too. I would dispute the solid platform though. My neighbor bought one and that direct injected engine has spent more time at the dealer than his driveway. That old man is just about fed up lol.

 

[Barney556180]

Besides chrome or fake wood grain, not a whole lot you can do to design a distinctive tailgate that doesn’t resemble other brands in some way...

 

[ramffml]

Well yeah, I mean, look at it; it IS ugly.

But then again I think the new Ram is ugly too. I would dispute the solid platform though. My neighbor bought one and that direct injected engine has spent more time at the dealer than his driveway. That old man is just about fed up lol.

It always amazes me that people post personal anecdotes as if it means anything. This forum is literally filled with Hemi issues, in case you're wondering. The 5.3 and 6.2 are just as solid as the Hemi, and many would argue it's more solid. I still visit the GM forum and guess what; lo and behold they have nothing but bad reports about the 5.7 and lifters and ticking and manifold issues etc etc. You have to look past individual anecdotes and try and get to the percentages or ratio of good to garbage.

 

[Goose55]

Glad this thread has become so popular.

 

[tidefan1967]

The interior is getting a refresh, and any exterior refreshes (I've not heard of any) are simply "due to product cycle", every car/truck gets that.

Of course this forum will find the GM's ugly, lol, big surprise!

It was a bad year for sales, and yet... GM was the only manufacturer with an increase in sales, coming out in number 1 for total sales. Hmmm.

And no, there have been many years (more often than not, especially recently) where Ford still outsold GM combined.

It's beyond me why some have to trash a truck just because they own a competing brand. I love my Ram, but GM makes a solid truck (as does Ford, Toyota etc).

I’ve owned way more GM trucks than all others combined. The 1999-2006 GM trucks were the best out of any brand out there hands down. I owned a 2011 Silverado up until 2014 when the next body style came out. I owned two of the next gen trucks a 2014 and a 2015. Both of those trucks were the two biggest turds I’ve ever owned in almost 40 years of driving. If you spend time on the GM truck forums you are familiar with the term “Viberado” and “Chevy shake”. I spent two years dealing with that BS. As you well know if you are an expert on GM products that few people ever found a solution to that problem after spending thousands of dollars on new tires, rebalancing and other nonsense that rarely ever worked. Screw GM! I’m not necessarily a Ramboy but I would rather deal with cam/lifter failures than buy another GM product!

 

[HemiLonestar]

It always amazes me that people post personal anecdotes as if it means anything. This forum is literally filled with Hemi issues, in case you're wondering. The 5.3 and 6.2 are just as solid as the Hemi, and many would argue it's more solid. I still visit the GM forum and guess what; lo and behold they have nothing but bad reports about the 5.7 and lifters and ticking and manifold issues etc etc. You have to look past individual anecdotes and try and get to the percentages or ratio of good to garbage.

It amazes me that people like you obnoxiously post your opinion as if it means anything. Nuh uh, there are really Ram problems? You mean I wouldn't have figured it out on my own with 20+yrs of Ram ownership or maybe the 7yrs longer I've been here than you reading about other's problems?? Holy ****, I'm so glad you're here [emoji23][emoji1782][emoji23][emoji1782][emoji23]

 

[ramffml]

It amazes me that people like you obnoxiously post your opinion as if it means anything. Nuh uh, there are really Ram problems? You mean I wouldn't have figured it out on my own with 20+yrs of Ram ownership or maybe the 7yrs longer I've been here than you reading about other's problems?? Holy ****, I'm so glad you're here [emoji23][emoji1782][emoji23][emoji1782][emoji23]

I didn't post an opinion anywhere in this thread, you did. I just said you can't call something ugly when the majority of people don't find it ugly. There is a certain amount of room for personal taste, but when you're bucking a large percentage of the population, well, something is wrong with you then, not the rest of the world.

The simple truth is, the GM twins are being snapped up at a far faster rate than both Ford and Ram. So like I said, if they actually are ugly, with a worse interior (nobody denies this fact, not even most GM owners), and have supposed drive train issues..... and YET they're the number 1 selling truck, what does that say about the trucks in second/third place, hmmm? You can't have your cake and eat it.

 

[Batt4Christ]

Well- considering the “Easter egg” RAM put under the hood of the TRX trucks (the engraved T-Rex with a Raptor in its teeth)... LOL



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[Batt4Christ]

For the year, RAM out sold Chevy 634K to 576K. No, RAM didn't outsell Chevy and GMC combined.

If FORD didn’t practically give away fleet trucks in government/municipal contract bidding, they wouldn’t be the “highest selling” truck.


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[Batt4Christ]

You have to combine them, it's the only way that makes sense. You have Ford combining F150 + F250 + F350 (which are completely separate trucks) and making the claim "Ford is the best selling truck in America for 50+ years!!", and then many people refuse to combine the Chevy + GMC when the differences between them amount to "trim level".

So lets not play games here. Everyone knows that the GM twins are the most popular at this point. Same company, same shareholders, same engineers, same frame, same engine, same transmission, same interior, same seats, same wheels, same bolts, only differences are front grills and a few swooping side lines (around the wheels).

Chevy and GMC are actually competing models. Yes, they are made in the same factories and even the same lines from time to time, but they are equal with each other, not the same truck line. Chevy makes a complete line- 1500, 2500, 3500, etc, as does GMC. Brand is the key term.


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[Batt4Christ]

Well yeah, I mean, look at it; it IS ugly.

View attachment 234064

But then again I think the new Ram is ugly too. I would dispute the solid platform though. My neighbor bought one and that direct injected engine has spent more time at the dealer than his driveway. That old man is just about fed up lol.

The HD models are even worse.


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[ramffml]

Chevy and GMC are actually competing models. Yes, they are made in the same factories and even the same lines from time to time, but they are equal with each other, not the same truck line. Chevy makes a complete line- 1500, 2500, 3500, etc, as does GMC. Brand is the key term.


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That's like saying the BigHorn competes with the Laramie. Technically it's true, but it doesn't mean anything here. In the end, GM makes the sale, the numbers go up for GM. We're not arguing which trim makes GM the most money, just that GM outsells Ford when it comes to trucks (for 2020 anyway, and also for other years)

 

[Batt4Christ]

That's like saying the BigHorn competes with the Laramie. Technically it's true, but it doesn't mean anything here. In the end, GM makes the sale, the numbers go up for GM. We're not arguing which trim makes GM the most money, just that GM outsells Ford when it comes to trucks (for 2020 anyway, and also for other years)

You really don't understand what the term "brand" means, do you?

Ford is a brand
Chevrolet is a brand
GMC is a brand
RAM is a brand
Nissan is a brand
Toyota is a brand
etc.

Your analogy is ridiculous at best (and I'll stop there so as not to violate any group rules)...

By your measure - the Ford F-150 XL competes with the XLT, which competes with the King Ranch and the Harley Davison model ... No those are TRIM levels within the same BRAND.

There is a reason that sales figures are reported by BRAND, not by manufacturer. There was a time when Chrysler Corp manufactured the lighter trucks for Sterling Trucks. The only difference was badging and the grill. Those trucks were NEVER counted towards Chrysler/Dodge truck sales figures.

For a time, GM manufactured Isuzu-branded compact trucks (they were literally an S-10 with Isuzu badges). Those were never counted in Chevrolet or GMC sales figures.

Please, if you are going to try to argue, have facts and reason on your side.

 

[Goose55]

Wish there could be less bickering here. This was not the intent of my thread.