Good read explaining Catch Can

[JohnD72]

Yep, I get that, but you forgot to mention what your crank case pressures were at various RPM/load ranges before and after, vacuum readings up and down stream of the can, emission and O2 readings before and after..... I understand the potential long term benefit of keeping oil out of the intake, but will catch can affect the engine in the long term in any way by altering pressures/airflow?

If you've got that much time on your hands, have at it and pass it on.

 

[ZCR]

I think a simple solution to never needing to empty the can again would be to tap the base of the can or use one with a drain then tap the oil pan and run a line with a valve that closes under pressure from the crank case (NCV). this would allow the PCV system to operate normally and when there is zero case pressure (engine off) the valve would open and drain the can back into the pan. This could allow the use of a smaller can with less worry and more flexible placement options.

 

[AC54ME]

An interesting aside:

When the C5's (Corvettes) were introduced the issue associated with the problem corrected by the 'catch cans' became apparent.

Most of us drove our Vettes at high RPM's - 1st through 4th.

By the end of the first year C5's (1997) the issues caused were so apparent that a number of market manufactured catch cans came into being.

I run 427 Lingenfelters in both my C5's - each making more than 600 HP.

Following the installation of the catch cans I found it necessary to drain the cans after 1000 miles of driving.

Originally the after- market catch cans did NOT come provisioned with a 'drain valve' - thus necessitating the removal of the catch can in order to drain it of accumulated oil.

The Corvette engine compartment is much, much more 'crowded than my 1500, and the issue of unscrewing the can was a pain.

By 2000 almost all after- market catch cans for the Vettes had a drain valve included.

Do any of the manufactures of catch cans for the Ram's include the drain valve that you know of?

 

[audio1der]

The Moroso has a drain valve included, although a person could drill and tap the popular BT can themself as well.

I'm with Razaa; mine catches gunky oil mixture which otherwise would have been cycled back through the engine, so it has paid for itself in my eyes. If it has more/side benefits to that, all the better.

 

[AC54ME]

The Moroso has a drain valve included, although a person could drill and tap the popular BT can themself as well.

I'm with Razaa; mine catches gunky oil mixture which otherwise would have been cycled back through the engine, so it has paid for itself in my eyes. If it has more/side benefits to that, all the better.

Many thanks for the heads up.

But, a little late as I ordered one (from other posts on this Forums) that does not have this option.

I will be drilling and installing a drain valve - this makes draining a easy process.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

I think a simple solution to never needing to empty the can again would be to tap the base of the can or use one with a drain then tap the oil pan and run a line with a valve that closes under pressure from the crank case (NCV). this would allow the PCV system to operate normally and when there is zero case pressure (engine off) the valve would open and drain the can back into the pan. This could allow the use of a smaller can with less worry and more flexible placement options.

If I am reading this correctly,
you are suggesting routing the gunk collected by the Catch Can back to the crankcase?

If so, the problem is that the gunk collected in the Catch Can is not just oil.

The oil in the crankcase and on the dipstick looks clean, just like fresh oil out of the bottle.
The gunk collected in my Catch Can is dark brown to black.

 

[kkreit01]

After a year of waiting, I finally ordered mine up last Friday.

 

[Graygoose]

Ordred mine a long time ago, best money spent. Ive seen what a catchcan catches, no way I want that back in my pan.

 

[ZCR]

If I am reading this correctly,
you are suggesting routing the gunk collected by the Catch Can back to the crankcase?

If so, the problem is that the gunk collected in the Catch Can is not just oil.

The oil in the crankcase and on the dipstick looks clean, just like fresh oil out of the bottle.
The gunk collected in my Catch Can is dark brown to black.

The gunk your seeing is carbon deposits caused by blow-by; a lot of which is constantly being diluted in the clean looking oil anyway and is why it's not so clean looking after 5K+ miles. If there were a valve that allowed the condensed vapors to flow back to the pan, yeah, it might reduce the life of the oil by a few miles. It only forms gunk when it's trapped and the oil and carbon are given time to separate. And then there are oil filters for any large particles.

My argument isn't with the purpose of the can. I agree that it's good to keep the intake and combustion chamber as clean as possible. My issue is how well the crank case ventilation system works with the added restriction of a catch can. An increase in case pressure can cause oil to be pulled past the piston rings into the chamber on the intake stroke causing the same buildup problems as before. It also puts more pressure on oil seals eventually causing leaks and a number of other problems.

I also realize some people have seen heads removed from engines that ran with and without cans and claim there is a drastic difference. But, again there are too many variables for me to take that with more than a grain of salt. I have and will never base my opinion of a product solely on info from a producer or vendor of said product.

I've also seen a lot of speculation about why a catch can wasn't installed from the factory; citing not wanting to rely on owners to empty the cans, EPA regs on the kind of waste produced... But it's all speculation.

I know I may be going against the grain here, but I'm simply trying to spark debate with the best interests of fellow Ram owners at heart. The longevity of our trucks.

BTW, if your really concerned about performance you run a vacuum pump with your mods.

 

[Hemi450hp]

ZCR, what kind of proof are you looking for? Not trying to come across as arrogant here, but many people in this thread and others have posted nothing but positive results with catch cans, yet you still continue to doubt them.

Like you said, people have pulled heads that were much cleaner with catch cans, but that isn't good enough. People have done before and after performance testing with and without catch cans, but that also isn't good enough. Hemifever does not even sell catch cans, yet he still recommends that every 1 of his customers has one, and that is not good enough. People have removed intake manifolds and TB's that were spotless with catch cans installed, yet that is not good enough. The cans are obviously doing exactly what they are intended to do, and nobody is having catastrophic failures with them installed. We have numerous customers that have been running these since 09 when the VVT motor first came out in the trucks, and those motors are still running strong.

I am not in any way trying to sell you a catch can with this post, but I'm just confused as to why you still doubt their performance when there has yet to be any negatives with the catch can installed. With the thousands of Ram owners running these now on every truck forum, have you ever seen anyone post a negative side effect of this mod on a truck that actually has 1 installed. I am on all the forums every day, and I have yet to find that thread.

Plain and simple, the catch cans work, and I will never own a hemi vehicle without one.

 

[TylerB]

Don't forget ALL the guys from the LX crowd Matt. There's A LOT and they are making some big power.

 

[Graygoose]

Cleaner heads, cleaner TB's, cleaner pistons when heads are removed...should be enough proof there.

 

[ZCR]

Just stubborn I guess. I suppose 18 years in a field where every fastener and component undergoes extensive testing to meet stringent specifications can make a person wary of even the smallest of unknowns. But, then again, if everything were just “good enough” we’d still be driving a horse and buggy.

That being said, I will likely install a catch can or maybe something I devise myself; I do have a couple ideas I may bench test.

 

[Graygoose]

My father-in-law is an airplane mechanic, he's the same way as you.

 

[frankmm2]

ZCR I feel ya! Somebody has got to look at the other side of the coin. So I am new here and agree there are 1,000's of people that have catch cans and love them but there are probably 100X more Ram trucks on the road that don"t have them and don't have any problems. RAM sells what? about 200,000 trucks a month? I guess if you don't mod your truck then why bother with a catch can. I see where it helps(and will probably get one) but having a hard time seeing where it really hurts not having one also.

 

[Ocelot]

I always see the catch can threads for the hemi. Is there one for the 4th gen 4.7? Or even a benefit for the 4.7?

Ray

 

[Casper]

I think a simple solution to never needing to empty the can again would be to tap the base of the can or use one with a drain then tap the oil pan and run a line with a valve that closes under pressure from the crank case (NCV). this would allow the PCV system to operate normally and when there is zero case pressure (engine off) the valve would open and drain the can back into the pan. This could allow the use of a smaller can with less worry and more flexible placement options.

That would be a horrible idea. Have you seen the junk in the catch can? You absolutely do not want what the catch can captures draining back and settling to the bottom of your pan and becoming sludge to block your oil pump suction. It's not just carbon, its condensed water vapor and some volatile fuel components that have turned to vapor and condensed in the can as well. Several times in colder weather the stuff in the can has actually looked more like the mayonnaise you find on the underside of your oil filler cap when you have coolant leak than it looks like oil. The PCV evacuation is also a very low pressure system, under suction at one end from the TB and under pressure at the other from the PCV venting crankcase gases. Adding all that blow-by into your combustion chamber is going to produce a measurable reduction in octane rating and a lower ignition point. A catch can installation using the same interior diameter hose as the PCV outlet connector it replaces, and having only a mesh strainer inside produces a delta p that is negligible--some of the e-bay cans and the air compressor filter mod version seen elsewhere on RF with smaller I/D hoses may be more restrictive.
In the humorous words of Shrek: "Bettter out than in I always say!"

 

[Hemi450hp]

I always see the catch can threads for the hemi. Is there one for the 4th gen 4.7? Or even a benefit for the 4.7?

Ray

You would also benefit from a catch can on your 4.7, but nobody makes a bolt in kit for the 4.7's. You would need to get the standard Billet Tech kit and make your own mounting bracket...the Hemi Z bracket does not fit on the 4.7. We do have a few 4.7 customers that have done this, but I will have to search for some install pictures.

 

[Hemi450hp]

ZCR I feel ya! Somebody has got to look at the other side of the coin. So I am new here and agree there are 1,000's of people that have catch cans and love them but there are probably 100X more Ram trucks on the road that don"t have them and don't have any problems. RAM sells what? about 200,000 trucks a month? I guess if you don't mod your truck then why bother with a catch can. I see where it helps(and will probably get one) but having a hard time seeing where it really hurts not having one also.

You are correct. On a bone stock truck, I would not worry about a catch can. It will keep your engine clean, but aside from having to clean the throttle body more often and maybe sea foam the motor on occasion, I have not seen any mechanical failures due to not having a catch can (on a stock truck).

If you plan to add any mods, especially a tuner, then a catch can becomes a must have mod though. I have seen customers install tuners and lose power because they did not have a catch can installed. The increased timing in the tune combined with the reduced octane level of your fuel without a catch can is a recipe for disaster. Thankfully these computers are smart enough to pull timing to protect your motor, but the trade off is a significant loss of power.